I Love Boca!!!!

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by ga tennis, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Had our first lesson with Rick today and i can honestly say he is worth 300 an hour.He has Great coaches at his camp and he sees things that other coaches just cant see.He is Amazing!!!
     
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  2. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    $300/hour? I want that job.
     
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  3. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  4. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    I like Boca (and Delray too) but for other reasons. Atlantic Ave has some great places to eat! LOL
     
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  5. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    Boca for all those golf country clubs ... ocean drives ,warm water beaches .. what else ? oh don't forget those seasonal hurricanes..
     
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  6. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Good deal GA Tennis. Just don't fall for the video analysis nonsense that one of the coaches there is pushing for an additional fee, Rick's eyes are what you needed.
     
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  7. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, GA Tennis, maybe you could try your own video shakedown.

    Semi related, I'm looking for a potential host for my blue chip freshman for clay courts. TCF or ? you would get a good recommendation from Sekou for him.
     
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  8. Keysmickey

    Keysmickey Rookie

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    I'm not sure 'being sold' on how great it is after one ($300.00) session is rational thinking. Rick has a reputation, as indicated by TCF, but I could (although I can't) name you at least two parents who were sold on their kids "talents" a few years ago who are still no higher than 3 star players in their senior year. Don't be blinded by the celebrity.
     
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  9. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    $300 an hour?!?!? For a sub-10 year old? Geez, what do you people do for a living?!

    I still think all this talk about what's wrong with American tennis comes back to money. The US has no shortage of athletes, but most can't afford what it presumably takes to be successful in the US tennis system. Not just crazy expensive coaching like this, but expensive travel and tournaments chasing points to get rankings, notice, and access to more training.
     
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  10. rodrigoamaral

    rodrigoamaral Hall of Fame

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    for $300 an hour, he better be good
     
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  11. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    He is great.We are doing the morning camp and doin one hour a day private lesson for five days.I had to sale dope for two months before we came down.Just kidding.
     
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  12. hunter

    hunter New User

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    who is rick?
     
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  13. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    So let's say you have $4-5K to spend on tennis for your youngster. Would you say you would get more out of a week like this, or a local private lesson once a week and local clinics for an entire year?

    Not trying to criticize your choice, just trying to get a handle on how much someone like Macci can do with a kid in one week as opposed to local professional coaching over a longer period of time for the same money.
     
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  14. ChiefAce

    ChiefAce Semi-Pro

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    TCFL, Not a fan of the 3D tennis tech by Dr. Brian Gordon?
     
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  15. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    had a player go to Macci twice and I watched the workout .. I wasn't impressed .. a lot of sales job IMO.. I prefer Lansdorp ,his eyes knows .. Robert can see if you need to tweek your follow through an inch higher or lower depending what shot you're trying to pull off.. Macci is not that refined in what he sees and teaches,maybe he's good for a junior but at $300 per/hour ?? no junior should be paying that kind of money for a lesson..
     
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  16. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    No, I don't like the way they have meshed that with Maccis. Rick now hypes it and Gordon, as if its almost mandatory for kid's to improve. Never mind all the greats Macci and Lansdorp and others have helped without it.

    Its pure money making to gullible parents. Gordon will work with a kid for an hour and end up making corrections that he could have made in 10 minutes with his naked eyes. The corrections are basic stuff and don't require detailed video analysis. Maybe a top 100 pro can use it to find some tiny detail to tweak, even if its a waste, they can justify the expense as they make lots of money from tennis. Detailed video analysis for a kid at $1000 for 5 sessions is just milking the parents.

    Thats the side of Macci I have always cringed at, I think they go over the top on the monetary end with the assorted ways they use to get parents to spend more and more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
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  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Does he allow you to record the lesson? Do you have to sign anything saying you will not put it up on the Web?
     
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  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I saw a segment on Tennis channel which showed Macci and a wired up junior, whose 3D analysis was being performed by wireless sensors. It did not mention Brian Gordon, but I think it must be the same thing - can't see how two projects of this kind can be going on in the same place at the same time.
     
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  19. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Couldn't agree more. Just like in the classroom, young kids benefit most from repetition. Their retention capability is the same whether the lesson costs $300 or $50. And physics still works the same way with either.
     
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  20. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is how things move. Look at the golf industry. They perform this kind of analysis and show you the swing path and all that. You can even use their custom fitting program where they will fit the right club and head for you. And this is for recreational players. So there will always be a market for this. Pros do it first (custom fitting started with them), then the rich club types do it next, and then it will filter down to the poor masses.

    I just ordered my second pair of RF Nike Vapors for $120 yesterday from TW. Do you think I play like RF and need all that shoe technology?
     
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  21. Uvijek Argen

    Uvijek Argen Semi-Pro

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    [​IMG]
     
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  22. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    wow.. $300 / hour :). I spent $300 for my son's tennis camp for this week (30 hours) and thought long and hard about it :)

    I am not a fan of excessive coaching, or of in depth stroke analysis. Just some basic fundamentals from 5-8 yrs old. Then let them play and have fun. The kids with decent fundamentals, who love the game the most, and love to compete the most, will rise to the top.
     
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  23. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I get all that but its a little different here. Macci has a actual track record with kids using his eyes and one on one training. So he can 'sell' his personal services to parents based on his track record.

    But it gets excessive. When you piggy back more and more stuff that never had any hand in helping develop Capriati, Roddick, and Williams sisters, I don't like that.

    You know you won't play like Fed. But this guy is using the parents dreams to extract more and more money. Thats fine if its the actual stuff that did help the great players he worked with, when its just expensive add ons, that to me gets skeevy.
     
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  24. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Really. $300 per?
    Good way to spend fewer hours on the court, but bring in more money ; if you have the demand.
    Of course if they can afford it no problem, Rick has earned it thru his rep, even though IMO they are many better coaches out there for less.
     
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  25. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Sadly, this is how coaches make their money...

    Would say the money that it cost for a week there would be better spent with the local coach where you get a heck of a lot more lessons.
     
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  26. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    CON artist ,,,,,,,, there is a lot of land 30 mile west of his academy $300 for 12 acres
     
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  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is all about supply and demand.

    You can study Economics 101 at your local community college almost for free. You can study the same course with the same textbook at MIT with a Nobel Laureate for $50K a year.

    Don't think somebody can help you, don't hire him. But without knowing what exactly he contributes for that money, how can you know whether it is worth it or not?

    I saw on Tennis Channel that Cliff Drysdale also charges $300 for a private lesson. He was on the tour for sure, but still, you could say the same thing about him.
     
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  28. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Agreed. I would say for any preteen's 5x60 is a lot better spent than 1x300.
     
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  29. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I think it depends. Some families live in tennis dead zones without many good coaches. Macci does give lots of tips to visiting kids, he can fix a lot of errors in that hour.

    So if the parents pay attention they can use the tips for months to fix the strokes. If a kid has a mediocre coach, he could go years using the same bad strokes and spend a lot more than $300 and heading nowhere.
     
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  30. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    That's just crazy.. No one can fix a kid's many errors in 1 hour .. I haven't met any kid who can grasp more than 2 things and try to correct them in 1 hour's time,not in tennis ,not in golf...
     
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  31. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    T.C.F Rick didnt mind her having a western grip on her forehand but he has totally changed her backswing.He has fixed parts of serve and has taught me alot.He lets you record the whole lesson so that when we get home i can help her fix some of the problems in her swing.For me it was worth 1500.00 dollars for the five one hour lessons.It wasnt just her getting a lesson it was also teaching me so many things i didnt know.
     
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  32. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Reread my post, I said if the parents pay attention. I have seen it many times, the parents observe a lesson and take notes and continue to work on those corrections with the kids for months.

    If Rick sees the wrong grip, the wrong take back, the wrong follow through...whatever...and the parents use it to correct the kid when a local coach let it go the $300 would pay for itself.

    Its situational. In some cases the $300 is thrown out the window, in others its worth it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
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  33. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Exactly my point. Parents can take notes, videotape, whatever. So its not a one and done thing.

    In your case it makes sense because now you can teach her an eliminate her coach for a long time. So $1500 spent if you now have a years worth of teachings is a good deal.

    Funny about the western grip. My girl uses it and flat out hits amazing with it. Its suppose to limit them according to tennis lore. Interesting that Rick is chilling on changing it. I am playing it by ear and will look for signs it is limiting her.
     
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  34. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    I think every kid is different. My kid hit amazing with a western too, however; the move to semi was a painful but great change...eventually. We made the change when he was 8 or 9.
     
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  35. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I would say to be more accurate my kid is between a western and semi western. And she doesn't tend to slip towards extreme western like many kids, the grip stays consistently right between the two. So it won't be a big change to go more towards semi if needed.

    I also look a racquet head speed. Every now and then a kid jumps out at you that has natural racquet head speed. A kid like that is more likely to get away with a more western grip than most kids. Its all about balancing the spin and the court penetration.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
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  36. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    GAT - Honestly though do you really think any pro in his right mind would dare suggest a grip change in the first lesson, even if he thought it was the right thing to do? If he did, most kids would be crying after 20 minutes and he would probably be losing a customer as a result... I'm guessing it was probably important for him foremost to make the lesson as enjoyable as possible for everyone concerned.

    I've seen 14's girls at the last Easter Bowl playing with extreme western. It wasn't pretty. Moonballing from back of the fence and and slicing low forehands won't get them very far I don't think.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
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  37. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Actually he will suggest they switch from Western within 5 minutes of meeting them, if he deems it important. Obviously not on the spot, he advises the parents to work on it at home in a case like this when they are just visiting. I have seen him doing it. heck he "completely changed her backswing" the first lesson.

    Its situational. Most girls will be advised to switch away from western. As they age the spin does not penetrate and their balls sit up to get smashed.

    But there are indeed girls who can succeed and play D-1 tennis with the western. I would guess Macci looked at her racquet head speed, body type, swing pattern, forehand penetration and decided she should stick with her grip for now.

    Some 14s girls will moonball and slice for success no matter what the grip. Thats not the grip, its the training.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
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  38. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    OK TCF, I'll play. What do you charge an hour? You obviously know what to look for, what can RM tell a young visitor kid in the first few lessons that you couldn't?
     
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  39. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Point was, as you know the western is great to moonball chest high but makes it virtually impossible to pick up a low ball and come forward. Kids who use the western are forced to slice low balls to their forehands because there's not much else they can do :).
     
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  40. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I said in my post if a kid lives in a tennis dead zone and parents are paying for coaching but not advancing the kid. In that case seeing a great coach can allow the parents to work with the kid and correct lots of issues that they have been stagnant on.

    Since I worked with Macci you question does not apply. I learned many of his tricks from him, and pass them on at a cheaper rate than he does.

    If a kid has no access to a competent coach than a few lessons with a great coach can allow them to progress. I see lots of kids with straight take backs and serves that make you cringe so whoever is coaching them stinks.

    The #1 girl in the TRN Class of 2015 has played 27 tournaments in the last 12 months, and is ranked at the top, but her strokes are brutal and will dead end if not fixed soon. Whoever coaches her does not know how to correct the problems. Had a Macci gotten her for a few lessons early on maybe she would have better strokes.....if they are going to put that much time and effort and money into a kid's tennis than $300/hour for a few hours sure would not have hurt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
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  41. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    But thats short sighted thinking. Obviously D-1 and pro players have done great with western grips. So they should have all been changed at age 8?

    Like anything the kids have to be trained. Bend the knees, whip the shot, hit more out in front on low balls, change the grip a little if there is time. All the tricks the best players use to handle lower balls with the western, kids can learn.

    So yes they may have to slice low balls until they learn, but the goal is to be good at 18, not 8. Moonballing? If a kid is moonballing with the western they need to be trained how to move their feet and get into position.

    I see boys and girls when properly trained use the western just fine. The decision is whether they can use it effectively when they get older, some can't, some can. Its not a blanket decision.
     
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  42. cmb

    cmb Semi-Pro

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    Very good point ^^
     
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  43. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    T.C.F Ricks main thing he changed with my daughter was her take back.He really wants that elbow to stay on the hitting side.He also talks alot about keeping the hitting arm straight while your pulling the racket forward.
     
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  44. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Yes, the girls especially tend to really wind up and let that hand get way behind them. I have been working with my girl on the up, keep the hand from winding back around her, pat the dog, pull the racquet butt through.

    These are corrections probably 80% of coaches in the US have no idea even to make. Thats why paying a guy who knows these things a high fee for corrections that will last her entire tennis career makes sense.
     
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  45. liztennis

    liztennis New User

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    RM is a good coach but it seems it s too much show off....I heard from a friend that the former coach of Victoria Azarenka is in the Boca or Delray Beach area.
    He was the guy that took her from juniors to the top 10.He also worked with Zvonareva last year.
    this friend of mine took his kids to him and they were really happy about it....not sure but i think he charges around 200 per hour.
    I might take my son and daugther next month to work with him for at least 2 weeks.
     
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  46. crosbydog

    crosbydog Rookie

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    Looking forward to my 10 y.o. spending next Spring break with Rick. Like you my daughter is doing camp in the morning and privates every other day. He has his work cut out for him with her :)
     
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  47. CROB410

    CROB410 New User

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    Hey GA Tennis or anyone else who was recently there-
    My daughter will be taking a lesson with Rick in early January. He mentioned she can spend the remainder of the morning hitting with the other kids who regularly train there... did you see any 6-7 year olds by chance?
    Thx
     
    #47
  48. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Hey sorry it took me so long to reply.Make sure u video every lesson.I think you should let her hit with the other kids as well.I would recommend you sit on the court while Rick is teaching the whole time you are there.He is very technical.I did see a couple 6 and 7 year olds there.Its not worth the money if you go there and dont learn yourself.Kids are gonna change parts of their stroke constantly as they grow.I look at is like it was more for me than for her.You cant change a kids game in 5 lessons.
     
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  49. CROB410

    CROB410 New User

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    Thanks. He told us we need to video the lesson and he would break down all of her strokes and explain what needs tweaking. So we intend to sit and listen throughout the hour. We are only taking her there one morning, but if we think it is worth it, would totally do it once a year when we are down for vacation.
     
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  50. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Are you a tennis player or a tennis coach?
     
    #50

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