I love silicone, what about you?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by christo, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. christo

    christo Hall of Fame

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    Not talking about Pamela Sue here, that's a different thread.
    This has to do with frames, gentlemen, if you please.
    I took 3 identical Head Prestige Pro frames and tested them with
    1. No silicone in handle
    2. A small amount in handle
    3. A whacking amount in handle
    All frames were strung with full RPM Blast @ 50 lbs
    Massive play test ensued and the consensus was.............
    Frame no. 1 felt like a rapier
    Frame no.2 a little more capable of damage
    Frame no. 3 was a Monster.
    Very responsive, heavy ball, no arm pain or strain, heavenly.
    Then I balanced it, it was Very head light, sooooo.....
    I added lead tape (4 inch lengths at 10 and 2) WOW
    I don't know what else to say, even better. The serve just had so much
    weight and direction, the groundies are locked in and better yet after 2+
    hours of absolute banging, not even the slightest twinge
    Even better the racquet doesn't even feel that heavy, it just feels solid.
    I hit with the Volkl PB 10 Mid and Babolat Pro Storm Tour for comparison
    and it was laughable. The Volkl was way too flexy and the Bab was a club.
    There's a reason that the Prestige hairpin has been around so long and I think that you can see that reflected in the amazing players who still use it like Tommy Haas and Berdych and Cilic. Don't let the paint job fool you.
    This is a great stick and having silicone in your hand may be just what the Doctor ordered if you know what I mean LOL:)
     
    #1
  2. floide

    floide Rookie

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    Agreed. IMO, silicone improves the feel in a manner no other resource can, and it feels way lighter than it really is. Did that for all my frames, no regrets whatsoever.
     
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  3. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    what is a "whacking" amount?
     
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  4. Luke5192

    Luke5192 New User

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    How easy is it to put silicone in the handle? Does it take a long time to set?
     
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  5. Stein

    Stein New User

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    really easy
    open the butcap
    put silicon in the handle
    close cap
    Wait for it to dry

    Might take some time to stiffen.
    To control the amount of silicon in the handle you can place a piece of softcotton down the shaft. Place it at as many cm as you want the silicon to reach. Then fill it up with silicon.

    I took a old frame and punped it full with silicon. It now weigths a wopping 400gram, but with most of the weight in the handle it doesn't feel that heavy. Still playes very solid!
     
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  6. floide

    floide Rookie

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    I would recommend inserting cotton balls in the handle before dripping the silicone, thus preventing it from spreading to the throat of the frame. That also helps to delimit exactly how much silicone you want to put, and guarantee that both holes will be equally filled.

    After putting the silicone, let the racquet 'rest' overnight without the buttcap until it stiffens. I let mine alone for 24 hours, just to make sure. :)
     
    #6
  7. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Even better than silicone is what Volkl is currently doing with the handles on their racquets.
     
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  8. floide

    floide Rookie

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    Is the BioSensor that good? This is not the first time I hear about it in words of praise, but never had a chance do hit with these frames.
     
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  9. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    I wonder what happened to my post.

    I also wonder about the Yonex handles on the Ezone Xi, there was supposed to be a technology for filtering vibrations, whatever it is it does work beautifully, I get absolutely no vibrations whatsoever.

    Does anybody know if Yonex put silicone in the handle?
     
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  10. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    I've been demoing a variety of Volkl racquets recently and am very impressed with BioSensor in the Organix line. I liked the previous dampening system in the PB's, but this is even better and a "racquet technology" that is actually legitimate.
     
    #10
  11. tball

    tball Semi-Pro

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    With Prestige Pro, the concern is, of course, that after adding silicone (and lead) it would become too heavy. But I wonder if anybody has tried this on Prestige S? Anything interesting to report?

    I found silicone injected -- in the factory -- in the handles of Kneissl. This may account for the particularly nice feel of those frames.

    Also, has anyone tried injecting silicone into the top of the frame (instead of lead), or at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions? Is it doable? Any downsides?
     
    #11
  12. ChadW

    ChadW Rookie

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    I've tried lead fishing weights in the handle of my HEAD Youtek Speed MP, but found that no matter how well I pack in the cotton, the weights always rattle a little when I mishit a shot.

    I'd love to try silicone. However, I know that my handle is only hollow about an inch up from the butt (after I scraped out the foam that was there) with two channels going up. At that point, I run into a couple staples, and something firm.

    Should I just pump silicone to that point? How much would that little silicone weigh?
     
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  13. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Good question..I am not sure..obviously as we know taking the buttcap off is a bit of a chore with the YY sticks.
     
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  14. Yevgeny2010

    Yevgeny2010 New User

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    Silicone in Yonex handles - howto

    You can use this method for just about any brand of racket and I prefer doing it this way because it's more accurate and able to be tuned.

    1) Work out how much silicone you want by using a test trial of lead on the outside of the handle and spreading it evenly. eg 20grams.

    2) Divide that amount (20g) by 4 to get 5grams per squirt of silicon.

    3) Drill 4 evenly spaced holes into your handle, 2 on each side of the harpin.

    4) Use a paper clip to push some cotton into the top 2 holes, so that the cotton is toward to head of the racket. Use a chopstick to push some cotton into the buttcap opening so it finishes just before the bottom 2 holes - stop pushing when you get just before the hole (by measuring distance on the chopstick).

    5) Go ahead and squirt 5grams ofsilicone (or hot glue, which I like because I can measure exact weighting of 5gm) into each hole. The cototn will prevent the silicone from going up to the head or down to the buttcap.

    6) Counterbalance the weight you just put into the handle with a little lead on the head and/or throat. You'll have to experiment for each type of racket as to how much you need.

    Tip: I found that putting ANY weight in the bottom 2 inches of the handle (ie where you grip it) just serves to makes the racket feel heavier and has little benefit to me, so i ignore that area altogether and start 2-3 inches up the handle.

    Tip: One side of the hairpin is narrower than the other, so you may not be able to fit as much silicon in to it, just squirt the excess into the other side instead. Its important to even up the silicon lengthwise, for balance purposes.

    Tip: 20grams is quite a lot, you can plan for 10grams instead. ie 4 x 2.5grams squirts.

    The result, the racket feels very plush and solid, allows you to handle even the heaviest balls from your opponent.

    The downside: overall weight increases especially with the lead on the head. Also, you probably have to increase your string tension, because you've suddently acquired more hitting power and will notice the strings feel looser/springier than normal. Main disadvantage is that its near impossible to reverse this mod, you can drill out some of the material but not all of it.

    Goodluck.
     
    #14
  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    If you've got an inch to work with, use the silicone to encapsulate and hold your lead weights in place. They won't rattle if they don't touch each other or the inner walls of the handle.
     
    #15
  16. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    If you are asking the Ezone Xi, it does not have silicone inside the handle.

    However, the polyurethane foam used to mold the "pallet" is also on the inside of the graphite hairpin.

    So no silicone but polyurethane foam inside and outside of the hairpin.
     
    #16
  17. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Scotus,

    yes, I was asking about the Xi.

    Ha, so no silicone but foam, that may be one of the reasons why it feels solid without vibrations.

    Did you take pics? I'd would like to see what it looks like, if it was possible.

    SD tech is around the graphite handle under the molded grip?

    Thanka
     
    #17
  18. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    If you've taken butt caps off racquets before, just picture this.

    Most racquets have the yellowish polyurethane foam around the outside of graphite hairpin. The inside of the hairpin is usually empty.

    The inside of Xi's hairpin is filled with the same yellowish polyurethane foam. So no empty space.

    That's all.
     
    #18
  19. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    I tried putting silicone in the handle of my racquet 3 days ago, using the GE II type which was specified in this section of the messageboard by more than one person. I left the buttcap off for the silicone to harden which it seemed to do in less than a day but I left it off for three days. I just decided to put two lead weights so I figured I would have to dig out the silicone. I put my awl in and after breaking the initial quarter of an inch I discovered that none of the silicone had dried; it only "skinned" over. I am very concerned that once I try to play with it in an hour from now that the silicone will go up the handle toward the head being that the cotton dam I put in is not very solidly wedged in there(because I could not manage to get cotton to be wedged much and God knows I tried). I am afraid that my worst fear is going to come true and that the silicone is going to flow up the racquet changing the balance and the very least and possibly causing silicone to enter the throat and head. This was not supposed to happen people. I read many posts on here before doing this procedure.
     
    #19
  20. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Bump.......
     
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  21. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    By the way, my racquet was unplayable and I had to throw it out. Thanks to all the great posts on this board about putting silicone in handle- it cost me money, time and a lot of effort for nothing but frustration and anger.
     
    #21
  22. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Ouch....that sucks.
     
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  23. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    I have hit with silicone'd racquets and love the feel. The problem is that they usually end up being too heavy for me.
     
    #23
  24. Arsnlrob

    Arsnlrob Rookie

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    No one to blame but yourself. There are people / companies out there that can do this for you.
     
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  25. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    How dare you say that to me. I have year of experience customizing racquets and I had never used silicone before. I followed the advice of more than one person on this board, to the last detail, and it ruined my racquet. I blame the bad advice on this board for it. The silicone never dried, only the outer quarter of an inch dried like the skin of a pudding. I wonder if the buttheads on this board ever tried delving into the silicone after thinking it was dry. I suspect that they assumed the entire thing was dry.
     
    #25
  26. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Pros put silicone into their rackets chief... you probably didn't do it right. No need to get heated. What racket was it? You should have done your first time on a racket you don't care about. Or found some cheap racket off the bay and experimented first.
     
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  27. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    You took the advice of random strangers on the internet. Many of the posters here are teenagers. They squirt some silicone in the racquet and go out and play. They don't care if it is dry or not.
     
    #27
  28. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    The silicone won't ride up.

    Silicone dries in a certain manner. Outside first, moving towards the center. "Outside" refers to the two ends of the silicone, towards the buttcap and towards the other side. The portion exposed to air solidifies first. The buttcap portion is directly exposed to outside air. The innermost region is exposed through the grommets letting in air.

    When I removed silicone that was a day old, only the silicone on the outside had hardened. When I removed silicone that's been there for months, the entire chunk (4-5 inches worth) had solidified.
     
    #28
  29. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I've taken silicone out of some pro stocks I've used and it's always been solid as heck. Usually comes out in a couple big chunks. Using a cotton dam will help, but if it's not tight silicone can leak through. I use cotton pads for makeup removal when I do silicone so I know it's thick enough and shaped well.

    -Fuji
     
    #29
  30. Magic of tennis

    Magic of tennis Rookie

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    I had Yonex vcore 89 for a few month and sold it due to causing tendonitis.
    I don't think Yonex put silicon on the handles.
     
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  31. Magic of tennis

    Magic of tennis Rookie

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    I am so sorry to hear that. If I want to put silicon, I would wedge with newspaper ball to make sure it wouldn't go to throat.
     
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  32. ace0001a

    ace0001a Semi-Pro

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    So far the only racquets I put silicone in were lower cost entry level ones that used the same molds as the higher end models that are already even to head heavy balance. So far has worked fine for me and I like the solid feel it gave the racquets.
     
    #32
  33. golfer

    golfer New User

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    There is a simple product that makes silicone cure even 1" by 3." There are quiet some very egoed people on this forum. Shame anyways glycerin is what you need. Walgreens has it
    Google it, test it, apply it.
     
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  34. ramos77

    ramos77 Semi-Pro

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    [​IMG]
     
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  35. Lex

    Lex Rookie

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    Has anyone ever tried injecting silicone into a cotton finger cot, balloon or the fingers of a latex glove? Then, put the finger cot/silicone in the handle of the frame(after it dries)?


    Seems like you could have the exact weight (by weighing it on a scale) before and after it dries.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
    #35
  36. freeez

    freeez New User

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    I have now added silicone to three of my racquets(tfight320, 295, dunlop 4d 300). I use a small tube of ge silicone weigh it before and slowly squirt out desired amount with frequent weighing of tube. Great way to change balance without changing grip size in any way. I do believe it really softened(if that is correct terminology) both my tfights, especially the 295.
     
    #36
  37. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    This is why many people use Blue Tack instead of silicone. Easy to weigh and easy to remove if you don't like it.
     
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  38. JDMasFCK

    JDMasFCK Semi-Pro

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    Never had a problem with silicone... sucks for you
     
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  39. Marcus2137

    Marcus2137 Rookie

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    I love that someone screws it up and immediately claims everyone else is wrong and don't know what they are talking about, instead of just admitting "I must have screwed it up."

    I've installed and removed silicon from many rackets and it's always been dry. Sometimes, if it's humid, it might take days to fully dry, but it always does. Also, when I put it in, I put the butt cap back on and dry the racket with the butt cap facing down, just in case the silicon decided to creep a little it will creep down instead of up into the frame, and just be stopped by the butt cap.

    If you screwed your racket up, that sucks, but called people here names and trying to throw blame is pretty ridiculous. Just admit that you made a mistake and deal with it.

    ON TOPIC:
    I like silicon a lot. I've been experimenting with it and the difference that it can make in the feel is remarkable. At first I had doubt and thought that it might just have a placebo effect. But then I started experimenting and was amazed at how soft and comfortable it could make a frame.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
    #39
  40. Circa 1762

    Circa 1762 New User

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    Have you found that its effectiveness depends on where in the handle you put it? For example, does adding silicone higher in the handle have a greater dampening effect than putting the same amount closer to the butt, as some have suggested (ignoring the effects on balance)?
     
    #40
  41. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    what kind of silicone is best?
     
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  42. Marcus2137

    Marcus2137 Rookie

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    that will be my next experiment. So far, I've just been filling the end with different amounts. Next I'll try the same amount but in a different location and see what it effects. But even just having it in the end makes such a difference that I can't imagine it getting much better :).

    Most recently, I filled my Head PT280 with 12g of silicon. I played it for a few months and then took it out. But I've had lots of rackets with huge variation of silicon in the handle, and so far the difference is always very positive results.

    My *GUESS* is that having it in the end of the butt cap will have the most effect. My reasoning for this is that the racket has a natural vibration/resonance. The best way to find this resonance is if you hold/pinch the racket with just 2 fingers a few inches below the top of the grip and hit the tip of the head with your other hand. You may have to adjust the place you're holding, but you'll find the point soon that lets the racket vibrate freely.

    The more you move your two fingers to the bottom of the grip, the less the racket vibrates. When your fingers get to the bottom of the grip, the vibration basically stops. To me this hints that the end of the grip *SHOULD* be the most effective location to place silicon; i.e. silicon should be able to make the biggest difference. BUT, as in many situations, intuition and guesses often turn out to be wrong due to overlooked/ignore/misunderstood dynamics of the situation.
     
    #42
  43. Circa 1762

    Circa 1762 New User

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    Interesting! I haven't experimented with silicone before, but it's my next project. Good to hear that just a little bit can make a big difference. If you happen to remember this thread once you've finished experimenting with placement, I'd love to hear what you found.
     
    #43
  44. txt858

    txt858 Rookie

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    #44
  45. 2ManyAces

    2ManyAces Rookie

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    Any videos of this?
     
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  46. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

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    Hey guys, sorry for the stupid question but I've always wondered about this, how is the cotton supposed to stop the silicone from going down the handle? Wouldn't it simply push the cotton down?
     
    #46
  47. txt858

    txt858 Rookie

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    this is what I do with the cotton. Take some "dental floss", pull about 25 inches then fold it in half. Now tie it to the cotton ball on one end. Now use like a popsicle stick or a wooden chopstick and mark how far you want the cotton ball to go down the handle tube. Let say you want it inject about 3 inches down the tube. Mark 3 inches on the chopstick. Now insert the cotton ball and use the chopstick to push the cotton ball down 3 inches. If you happen to go over....wa-lah...use the dental floss to pull it back a bit to adjust. Now use a sharpie and also mark the dental floss to the edge of the grip. This is so you can tell if there is any movement in the cotton ball when you inject the silicone. Now, inject the silicone. Check your weight and balance. If too much, you can pull on the dental floss to pull some silicone out. If not enough, use the chopstick to push it down even further. Adjust until you got your desire weight and balance. Then once done, you can snip the excess dental floss and put back your butt-cap cover. Hang your racquet Head up for a couple of days to a week to dry. Hope that helps.
     
    #47
  48. Yevgeny2010

    Yevgeny2010 New User

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    Wow, tennissavy, if you've had years of experience and never came across silicone or other material in the handle then I'd be surprised, just look inside some recent wilson rackets and see for yourself whats in there.

    Please don't trash people trying to help you out because that goes against the spirit of these boards. If you ask nicely you may receive more help to work out your problem, but the way you are attacking others I'm surprised you're not banned yet.

    BTW, you need to use some common sense and stuff enough cotton/pads in the handle to ensure the silicone doesn't get through it and into the throat - I use a chopstick to push it down until it's firm. A little bit of cotton is not going to cut it. Also, keep the racket upright when it's drying.
     
    #48
  49. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    Just out of curiosity has anyone tried it without the cotton? I would imagine if you left the racquet alone for 3-5 days it would solidify enough that it wouldn't move anyway.
     
    #49
  50. Marcus2137

    Marcus2137 Rookie

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    I've never used cotton or anything else to block silicon. The silicon I use is so thick that I have to use a stick to push it down into the hairpin. I think that even if I left the racket upside-down, it wouldn't move at all. But I still dry it handle-down just to be safe. After putting it in and taking it out, I've never had the silicon more and--at least with the silicon I've been using--I see no reason for cotton or anything else to block the tubes.

    The main use for a block, that I can see, is to make a more accurate measurement about exactly how far down the tube you want the silicon to go. But I usually don't care how far down it goes, I just use weight to decide when to stop putting it in. But If I wanted the silicon to all be in the middle of the grip, for example, I can see how using a block farther down could be helpful. But if you just add silicon to the end of the tube, and measure based on weight, I don't see a need for cotton/blocking.
     
    #50

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