I love techno

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by TennisLovaLova, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    I back you on most of what you say but as someone who's followed electronic music insanely closely for 25 plus years I have never seen or heard a single reference to PvD as "trance techno". If they did, it was either a misnomer, some clueless newb thinking they knew about dance music or, some trance cracker trying to paint their sound in a less god-awful light.

    Trance is and has been utter drivel for 15 years plus. What started out as an interesting idea has been dominated by cheese peddling egomaniacs who attract musically clueless fans like nothing. There is even a great cartoon series about trance > seriously, enjoy this in its entirety, it cuts pretty close to the bone regarding trance > http://ghfdrvtsyup.net/rokhausen/index.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  2. TennisLovaLova

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    hahaha
    page 10: he's number 1, dj mag says so, priceless
    the rest is extreme, but it's the sad truth. I remember the spirit of the parties in the nineties, you entered a club or went to a rave in the country it was like stepping into the twilight zone, new friends, good vibes and all. Now it's all standard, institutionnalized.

    the "turn your back on the dj" stuff is actually right, I do it myself without even realising I'm doing it in the club.
    I almost never see what the dj do...
    and that's exactly what they're doing in the boiler room in london or in amsterdam: the have the dj there play facing a wall and people enjoy their party without focusing on the dj or anything else... of course they are always some people staying right behind the dj, but they dont get the point... that dj worshiping is weird but new generation of drugs made that dj cult so easy for the dj's, people coming at them, wanting hugs, kisses, autographs, you name it...


    so last time at the Art Department gig in Marrakech, I had a little chat with Kenny Glasgow when the club closed, just before going to the afterparty in their hotel room. Very cool guy, very normal and positive thinking. nothing you'd think about a dj at the peak of his carreer and enjoying his success. we talked about Silence of the Lambs, Canada ans Morocco for about 15 minutes.
    The guy is almost 40, he's seen it all, he's been in the clubbing system all his life and now he's enjoying some well deserved but late success.
    He told me (and it was confirmed by my friend who manages the pacha complex in Marrakech) that for this gig they were paid 5.000$ by Pacha Marrakech.
    Which is close to nothing in the dj world.
    He also added that they came because they never been to Africa before.
    They came to discover something new.

    I think something like that would be impossible with the likes of guetta, tiesta or even pvd or that Ahole of Deadmouse who get 100K for gigs and travel on private jets

    So there are dj's and dj's. The spirit of old is still alive, just difficult to find.
     
  3. Bobby Jr

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    You'd be wrong. 5k is actually more the norm than the exception - in fact many play for much less if they can string three nights in a row regionally.

    Old associates of mine still do regular international gigs and they rebook a few guys annually or more regularly - with much bigger global profiles than Kenny Glasgow - and they don't get paid much more than that per gig. The clubs may pay more but that factors in flights, hotel, etc which can bump the price by 50% over what the artist gets paid.

    As for Deamau5 doing the private jet thing - his days of doing that will soon be over. He's been pinged a number of times for dissing the way DJs play their sets only to have some high profile DJs spreading the word around the trap that he actually pre-records his DJing sets. Once a DJ gets to that level their bookings become resigned to massive one-off parties and so the clock ticks faster than for guys who can play (and rock) local clubs and gigs of all sizes which drive the scenes everywhere.
     
  4. TennisLovaLova

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    They were paid 2.5k each
    Which is cheap compared to what guetta or pvd ask for a gig
    That was the comparison I was making.
    Anyway, the real spirit is not totally dead
     
  5. Bobby Jr

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  6. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Actually still hear this late night on the radio on the weekends.
     
  7. NickC

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    Truth, but only in his technical skills do I think he isn't rubbish. His setup and how he basically remakes tracks on the fly and mixes them with other people's tracks as the set goes on is pretty neat. It's quite intuitive.

    That's the whole point of his set. He basically converted his studio into a live setup and has the MIDI already mixed and pre-programmed. All he does is twiddle a few knobs and recall a few presets from his hardware synths in a live situation. His stuff is actually really well mixed and produced so all he does is basically load up a ton MIDI and automation data from his productions into one instance of Ableton and hits play. Albeit with some 15-20k worth of gear around him. Look at his setup, it's borderline impossible to do all that 100% live. And it is impossible to do that whilst mixing in the tracks of other people, due to how the key progression of his tracks work in relation to that of others.

    His old live set was cooler, when he used a custom built controller to program all his sequences and one-shots on top of his music and that of other people.

    That is awesome.
     
  8. NickC

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    And is anyone else here into production?
     
  9. TennisLovaLova

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    if by production you mean spending 3 hours / week on fruityloops then yes§
    Actually I make my own podcasts and share them with my friends.
    Mostly minimal or deep if I'm feeling "romantic"
     
  10. Bobby Jr

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    Yes. For many years off and on.
     
  11. Anaconda

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  12. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I dove back in. I really like a lot of dubstep that doesnt sound like dubstep. For example, Joy Orbison. I'm not into the Reese bass processed 1,000 times to sound like a transformer but I love 140 BPM. There is a lot of versatility you can have with the drums.

    For production I have really gotten into modular trackers. I just wanted all the VSTis out of the writing process. Too many options. Give me triangle, square, Sin waves, some filters and some parameters and lets do this.
     
  13. Bobby Jr

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    Not techno. You can start another thread for rock/whatever music if you like. There's plenty of space left on the internet. :p
     
  14. Anaconda

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    What? Enter Shikari are a techno rock band. Ergo from one angle they are techno.
     
  15. NickC

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    Minimal is cool. Always has been. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just not commercially viable as cheesy horribly-produced house music.

    And I downloaded a demo of FL Studio the other day and it's kind of neat.

    What kind of stuff do you like to make? What platform do you use?

    Dubstep when done right is cool. Dubstep with the same bread-and-butter sounds from Massive, Razor and FM8 is dumb, unless it sounds fresh and is really well produced.


    Let's all collab?

    I've always thought that indoor racquet sports made cool sounds, i.e the boom of a tennis ball being struck in an indoor facility. Squash sounds pretty cool too. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this too? I think such sounds would make good FX or interesting perc sounds. Table tennis sounds are cool too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  16. Bobby Jr

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    Electronic music - mostly house leaning towards the dubby/techy side of things.

    I use Albeton, primarily because I can have it on my laptop. Used to use Logic but got tired of Mac issues (price and peripherals mainly) and having to have a separate computer specifically for music making. Albeton is fine as long as you don't fall into the common trap of using loops for everything. The main downside for me with Ableton is mixdowns - it still has this particular sound which can't compare to Logic/Protools imo. When I want to finish something properly I do the end mixdown (as well as certain effects - delays etc) in Logic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  17. Power Player

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    I have been mixing in StudioOne and its freaking awesome. I just started working on my own stuff again. Most of my time is dedicated to recording for other clients. I am glad to be able to sit down and sculpt a kick drum for myself again.
     
  18. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    I work in the same way. Ableton's sound is odd, but not as bad as FL Studio's.

    Want to exchange some .ALS files?
     
  19. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    I've heard Studio One is very similar to Logic minus the stability issues. What kind of stuff are you doing?
     
  20. Power Player

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    Right now just programming drums, organizing samples. But I like house and more progressive dubstep and ill be working on that this month.
     
  21. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Wicked! If you are down, I'd like to help you? I have always loved drum programming as opposed to synth-based sound design. Alternatively, I think you've stated before that you work in the industry and as such I'd like to hear how your stuff "sounds", because it's probably alot more professional than mine.
     
  22. Power Player

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    Cool, Once I get something complete ill send it to you and you can hear it unmixed. I barely EQ or anything anymore. I spend a lot of time composing the track so the sounds fit together naturally. From there ill filter, EQ..etc, but I found that the less of that I do at the start, the better the track is balanced.
     
  23. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Composition is something I'd like to really learn. I can make cool sequences and sounds, and loops are a piece of cake. But my songwriting and making sounds that truly "fit" together with little to no effects are awful. Did you ever have this problem? Do you have some kind of structure to your writing? Either way, would you mind giving me advice as to how to really find things that fit really well together? Do you use many effects?
     
  24. Bobby Jr

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    Fire me a PM. Would be cool to chat more.
     
  25. Power Player

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    Well I have been playing music since I was young so songwriting is not as tough. It is still tough to write something great, but thats the challenge everyone faces.

    I tend to not worry about sound design that much when writing. It can suck me into a hole that distracts me from the song.

    Id recommend writing minimal stuff to start. As for structure, I like to program just a kick pattern so I have a feel, and then I spend my time on the synths and samples.

    I dont use a ton of effects, but it just matters the song. I may hook up a synth to a reverb and automate the wet/dry controller. Or do that with distortion or a filter or maybe all 3.

    If I write an arpeggio, instead of getting the notes right and stopping, I detail it more by automating slides or velocity or pitch. Just stuff that will keep it moving and interesting. There is a lot of repetition in dance, so you want to keep the sounds moving and evolving.

    Also, Id recommend getting a good sounding synth with triangle, saw, square and noise Oscillators. From there just build your sounds. Learn how to build sounds without presets, because it actually is a lot faster then searching for presets.

    For example, you can make a very good string or violin sound with a Saw wav and some heavy reverb.
     
  26. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    email sent!
     
  27. Bobby Jr

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  28. World Beater

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    In terms of techno.

    do you guys still consider riche hawtin to be one of the flag-bearers...or has he sold his musical soul like some other famous djs...

    I used to listen to carl cox...i still do - more his older stuff.

    you guys listen to dahlbeck?

    What would you consider infected mushroom to be...

    I like this track :

    "My bag lost in berlin"
     
  29. TennisLovaLova

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    IMO Hawtin pushed the limits of techno and minimal to new levels switching early from vinyl to digital.
    His set up is tecnically what's best around.
    I consider him the GOAT.
    Even in RA forums he's ranked 1st or 2nd each year among Villalobos, troxler and jamie jones...
    Some might say he sold his soul for money, too much marketing, but the guy has been around forever, and he's still killing it. He's now collecting the fruits of his work.
    He doesnt charge as much as the fake dj's (guetta, deadmouse and co) but he has his own audience and he always comes up with great party concepts.
    His sound is unique and inspired many dj's. Track selection, technique, variation, emotion, power, consistency he's the man. Quality and raw power.
    I hated the plastikman gigs 2 years ago, been to the paris show, hated it. Too experimental and yes his ego seemed too big and I guess he learned the lesson.

    Carl cox: the fact 1 cd is in imo one of the best techno mixes ever.
    Went to many of his live shows in france, spain, belgium, netherlands, from 1997 to last year. He still rocks, technically flawless.

    Jasper dahlback: great producer, but saw him live last year in marbella and wasnt too happy about his live set, a bit different from what I was expecting from him... Try listenin to his remix of "je regrette everything"
     
  30. Bobby Jr

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    It's Jesper... but, yeah, he's done some gems over the years. His stuff with Thomas Krome was his prime imo (as Dahlback & Krome).

    So far a Richie Hawtin goes - he has definitely crossed into the artsy artist category. While he might rock at what he does in recent years I reckon he's often moved too far from what made him a great DJ in his sets, instead playing sets which are bordering on showcases for the technology he's using and pushing the entertainment aspect down the list. He's rocked many places but has also killed lots of parties too by being too showcase-y and bland.

    Derrick May would still hold the techno crown for me. He plays a lot of house but, for pure techno genius in DJing, his peak is pretty much unbeatable... well, Jeff Mills has his moments too but is on a different tip.
     
  31. TennisLovaLova

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    Jeff Mills: amazing skills, some say the best
    but his sound is stuck in the past imho
    Big fan of course, I listened to the mixup vol2 for years, but I find it too hard to listen to now, too fast, too hard, too dark
     
  32. World Beater

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  33. Bobby Jr

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    Yep, no doubt he's the one guy who is on his own planet musically. I've always been a big fan of Stacey Pullen because, when he's on form, he's like half way between May and Mills.
     
  34. TennisLovaLova

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    so you must also like Kevin Saunderson if you're a big fan of detroit techno
    btw: why was it specifically in detroit?
     
  35. Bobby Jr

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    Yes but Saunderson isn't known as much for being a DJing maestro. He's good but his fame is more from his production skills and this crossover act, Inner City, from the early days.

    Re: why was it specifically in Detroit? Do you mean why is techno sometimes referred to as such?
     
  36. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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  37. NickC

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    Because that's where the sound developed. Kind of like house music in Chicago - that was where it all started.
     
  38. TennisLovaLova

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    yeah I mean what made those guys born in NYC or even Canada (Hawtin or AD) make the move to detroit?
    The three super dj's at the time may-mills-saunderson made it famous because they're from detroit or was it just a coincidence?
    what was so special at that time in that city to make that techno sound so popular? same for the chicago house I guess no?
     
  39. Bobby Jr

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    It's because Detroit was the birth place of techno. The term itself has also become a signifier when describing music that it's of a certain style or attitude - the Detroit style - which was typified by certain synths, drum machines and DJing styles in particular. This also helps distinguish it from other styles like minimal techno which was popularised mainly by German clubs/producers a couple of years back (even if it wasn't their idea - it's also a Detroit thing).

    As techno branched out around the world it was adopted in other scenes and they had their own sound - some more synthy, some harder etc... It seems to be common to use Detroit techno as the measuring stick by which the others are measured. Also, some of the biggest proponents of Detroit techno aren't even from Detroit - Orlando Voorn for example or Technasia (more for his earlier work than recent stuff).
     
  40. Hot Sauce

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    Went to Above & Beyond on the weekend. Amazing show.
     
  41. Hot Sauce

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    ^Not techno related. Please don't tear my ******* to shreds, Mr. Bobby Jr.
     
  42. Bobby Jr

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    What colour glowsticks did you use? :p
     
  43. Hot Sauce

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    Black.

    ________________
     
  44. NickC

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    What's on everyone's setlist these days?! I'm banging out a few classics off the Pryda Friends label as of late, (maybe one day if my stuff gets good enough I'll be on it!) trying to keep it deep, progressive and smooth. I know it's house and not techno, but the stuff is amazing.

    Playing right now on my iTunes:

    Full Stop - Cirez D

    ^ Proper techno pounder right there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  45. Power Player

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    Anything by XXXY..Scuba....im all over looking for the next joy orbison and depressingly can't find anyone like that. I don't even know what to call his stuff..garage..2 step...post dubstep?

    Ill drop in a production tip : Thomas Penton. Best drum samples ever. I mean, I literally just grab a kick and snare I like and program them..done. No mixing or anything. These drums just slam so hard and are processed so well. Gotta have the best drums possible and these deliver.

    Good example of what im saying is Arty - Zara. That kick is a TPenton sample. Besides mastering, it sounds basically untouched.
     
  46. NickC

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    Scuba is dope.

    Just took a listen to a demo of a Thomas Penton sample pack. WOW.
     
  47. TennisLovaLova

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  48. Bobby Jr

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    Sneak must have some new tunes coming out and needs some press. 8) He used to be at the forefront but in the last decade he's put out a stack of pretty forgettable records. Still, he is on the money with his point about the new era of DJs being soon forgotten. Most will for sure. Even some of the bigger current names I've heard have pretty poor DJing craft by what was expected of top DJs in the 90s.
     
  49. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

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  50. TennisLovaLova

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