I must be 2.0 or 2.5 Need Suggestions (Video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Tropikal_Knights, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Hello everyone.

    I see a lot of posters here providing tips to people on how to improve their shots and game. I am self taught and never had coaching. Played the sport for roughly a decade now. The problem for me in not being coached are the multitude of deficiencies in my strokes.

    I have posted videos of my forehand, backhand and a video of both the shots together. Racquet midsize Platinum. Used to play with prestige.

    Forehand: Issue here is I am not getting the required Topspin coupled with power. My technique is not giving me that even though I am trying to use my shoulder and cut down on the wrist usage (too much in my game). In search of the “modern forehand” so to speak. Link below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN0zNP6i6kc


    Backhand: I used to hit a 1hander and switched to two about a year ago. I want to generate way more power and topspin here too and believe I am using wrist(amongst other things) more than good court placement, feet position and shoulder rotation. Link below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avsKnPuxYjg


    Shots of both wings: Here is a video that I hope would give an accurate rendering of my strokes. Link below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S121ro_lbP8


    Would appreciate any help you people could provide.

    Thanks in advance for taking the time to view the videos.
     
    #1
  2. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Are you playing any leagues or tournaments at 2.5 or 3.0?
    How are you doing in those matches?

    By the video, I would rate you at at least 3.5 and not far from 4.0. Your technique needs work, especially in preparation, but I've seen far, far worse.
     
    #2
  3. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Pretty good.

    Here's 2 things:

    . that flipping motion in your takeback is going to cause consistency issues under pressure situations.

    . your leg usage on most of your fh's isn't quite right yet. you are actively jumping up. you shouldn't be jumping. you can tell by looking at your feet. you are using your feet to fly up instead of exploding off the ground with a leg push. there is a difference. when you make contact the energy from the legs is not being properly utilized as it has already been spent and you are losing power. try to not 'jump'. instead load your weight on the inside of your rear foot and push off using your leg muscles. if you don't fly in the air that's ok. if you leave the ground it should be because you are properly unloading the energy stored in your legs with your knee bend.

    good luck.
     
    #3
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, you're a hard hitting 3.5 or an average 4.0.
    Inconsistency in swing length (followthru) setup (which you do sometimes pretty well, and totally forget on other shots), a little too much hopping around since you're just rallying back to your partner, and arming the ball on late preps.
    But that is a GOOD level, so don't think I"m belittliing your game.
    Coaching will mainly focus on your mental game....stay in every shot, don't take a vacation. And consistency, which is tied with the previous sentence.
     
    #4
  5. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Your basic form doesn't look bad but your footwork is sloppy and you could need some body tension.

    would you wobble around like this in the army?:D
     
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  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Posture involves discipline, which is the mental aspect of your game that you know lack, and a coach would start his focus on.
    Physically, you hit fine.
     
    #6
  7. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    We didn't see your serve but I rate you a 1.0 (I took off another point because your shoe color didn't match the rest of your outfit.):twisted:

    You actually strike the ball reasonably well. The flippy thing with your forehand take back is a little concerning to me - it seems sometimes you're a little late and that might be part of the problem. I would try to make that take back less radical.

    On a serious note, I think you could compete at 4.0 or 4.5 if your serve is any good.
     
    #7
  8. Passion4Tennis

    Passion4Tennis Rookie

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    I'm glad someone on here finally recognizes their skill level. Thanks for posting.
     
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  9. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You are a 4.0. Where did you get the idea that you are a 2.5?
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Can't be a 4.0 unless you can regularly beat ranked 3.5's. It's not hearsay, it's not conjecture, it's not hocus pocus, it's not a blind guess. Beat plenty of 3.5's, you ARE a 3.5. Start beating 4.0's, you MIGHT be able to play in 4.0'
    s.
     
    #10
  11. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    The only certain way is to actually get yourself a computer ranking. However, I think if you play someone who has a computer ranking, and you are competitive with them, that's probably your level.

    The funny thing here is some people trash videos of people who have a computer ranking.:)
     
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  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Big problem here... you mention.."play someone who has a computer ranking"...but that suggests playing ONE player, who might not take your match seriously, might be sick, might be working on some stuff. Need to beat EVERY 3.5, some 4.0's, and give 4.5's a tough set before you're a 4.0.
     
    #12
  13. mawashi

    mawashi Hall of Fame

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    I agree, you look like a 3.5 but the forehand takeback is a bit much and you can lose time cus of it. Under pressure you might not have the time to go through the full motion.

    Also you hitting partner is merely feeding you moderately paced balls not any hard hitting so it's difficult to see if you can handle faster balls.
     
    #13
  14. loosegroove

    loosegroove Professional

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    Well this thread has been seriously derailed, and turned into an NTRP rating debate. Sorry OP! With that said, anyone who thinks he is just a 3.5, has some really good 3.5 players in their area, or are really bad at making assessments from video compared to the real world. If he hits at all in matches like he does in practice, he would dominate every 3.5 player I know.

    And I would agree the take back on the forehand is a bit weird, and is not that efficient. Probably you'd feel it the most when you need to do a short take back against a deep hard shot or serve.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
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  15. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    On the forehand, I think your ball striking is pretty good. You've got good upper body rotation and a good looking modern swing path. I'd lose that little racquet drop you do in the beginning of your takeback. It adds nothing except an unecessary variable that can only serve to make timing and consistent clean ball striking more difficult. You take the racquet straight back hold the racquet head straight up with your left hand on the throat. Your backswing should consist of upper body rotation, and little, if any, independent arm movement. I'd also recommend setting up consistently with an open stance, and a wider, lower stance.

    Your 2hb backhand needs more work. Think of a 2hb as a left handed forehand with the left hand dominant and the right hand passive, and a swing path finishing over the shoulder like a forehand. On your backswing, loose the circular windup and bring your hands straight back with upper body rotation, keep your racquet head pointing staight up, and keep your right arm straight so that the arm and racquet are at, or close to, a right angle. You can bend your right elbow after contact. Use more upper body rotation as you do on your forehand.

    Your 1hb slice needs even more work. Your swing path is WAY too steep, it should be much more level with a slightly downward trajectory. You should swing from your shoulder with a straight arm, do not swing from the elbow or straighten your arm as part of your forward swing. Your wrist should be firm and the angle between racquet and forearm should be fixed/constant. Your back should face the target in the backswing and your chest should face the target on the follow through.

    Finally, your footwork and shot preparation are inconsistent. You are often late, off balance or out of position. Sometimes you split step and set up for your shots well, other times you don't. When you don't set up well, your ball tends to go into the net or over the baseline. Ideally, you should be loaded up in an open, wide, low stance, with your upper body fully rotated, ready to hit the ball before the ball gets there. It takes more effort and energy to do that consistently than what you are giving. More consistent footwork and shot preparation will result in more consistent, accurate, shotmaking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
    #15
  16. LanEvo

    LanEvo Hall of Fame

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    I like you shoes, which model is that?
     
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  17. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Thanks people for your responses and taking the time and effort. I am now going to post my replies as well.Appreciate all the help.
     
    #17
  18. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Well I have not played any tournaments so to speak except when I first started out. What I have played is D-3 tennis in southern california but was part of a lower ranked college. I mean in our league of say 8 SCIAC teams we were like 5 or 6 ranked and in our 2 better years 4.

    My freshman and sophmore year I had losing records but winning records in junior and senior year.

    I agree my technique and preparation need major work. You see I want to reach a decent level and not be the hacker that I am now.
     
    #18
  19. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Love the fed picture.

    You have hit the nail on the head regards the flipping and pressure situation. I really cannot understand how the hell my forehand has evolved into this flippy crap. I did not even know I was doing it untill I saw this video .

    I am looking to really pound the ball as well as increase my topspin so that I can hit a deep penetrating shot. I never knew my leg pushes were completely wrong. No wonder I cannot get that power I am looking for. I never even did it consciously. I am going to today try and incorporate your advice on leg pushing up. Loading and unloading coiling and uncoiling.

    So from what I understand I need to bend more,load the weight up on my back leg then sort of push through the ball with that energy.
     
    #19
  20. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    I would not think anyone here is belittling my game. I want all the constructive criticism that I can get so that I can improve.
    So do you mean I need to take the racquet over my shoulder alot more on my shots especially the forehand? Is that the reason I am not hitting penetrative forehands?

    And I will try to cut down on the hopping part maybe stay abit more relaxed on the court. The ironic part is that my mental game is something I have been more at ease with in that historically in my life I have beaten better players than me on average. Of course there are ones that will destroy me but occasionally have been known to pull of an upset. I never knew though that your mental game extends also to body discipline and posture though the shot. I will have to look it up on how to construct good body posture.

    And yes I have major problems with consistency.
     
    #20
  21. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Sorry for being a dunce but what is body tension?
     
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  22. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    heheh nice one on the shoes.

    Well me and my serve have a troubled relationship. I served decently untill about 5 years ago when I had a rock climbing accident. Destroyed it really. The serving and overhead motions give me alot of pain so now my serve is average to poor.

    The crazy part is that I am trying my best to prepare early take the racquet back and have more time to hit my shot but to me it seems that the more I try and prepare earlier the more late I am on my shots. Its crazy. I m just not talented enough to become a good player but am trying my best to work hard and construct a decent game.
     
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  23. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Well my frustration at not getting enough consistency with hard shots coupled with heavy topspin. Dont want to just push the ball. I wish I could really prepare early and bang the ball. But it seems that I have more trouble with the platinum 94 than with the head prestige I used to play with. The platinum being a very thin frame racquet but making up for it with faster racquet speed. Get pushed around sometimes though against heavy hitters.
     
    #23
  24. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    thanks though.
     
    #24
  25. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Ive never said I am 3.5 or 4.0. I believe I am a 2.0. T o me trying to improve my game and develop the correct technique is the most important thing.
     
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  26. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Yups agreed. So do you think that I need to take the racquet back on the FH more open faced but with the same grip I use and then try to lessen the backswing?
     
    #26
  27. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Very informative. Thanks. You see I have tried the early preparation as you have mentioned above but it seems I am screwing it up further. I will try to load up like you say bend more and swing with upper body rotation rather than arming the ball. SO you do believe that I use too much wrist right and not enough shoulder and upper body rotation? Are there any exercises you could suggest that I could incorporate to improve my balance around the court? I was way fitter in my younger days but I had a bad rockfall and developed a blood issue that leads me to get fatigued alot. And at age 32 it is difficult to be strong and coiled on the court. But am trying to work my butt off to become a good player and not hack like I do.

    FH: Seriously I have no idea on where the hell I began doing the flippy thing. Do you think the best way is using the non racquet hand to take the racq back and hit the ball with a more open face? I just have control issues when I try doing that. but maybe more repititions will help. Do I take the racq back far enough or is it too much? Can you point me to which video I should watch of a professional player who uses a nice wide open low stance so that I can try to develop that? try as I might I dont seem to be doing the right thing when I try that. I even tried the oscar wagner advice of taking the forehand follow through more across your body and shoulder to get the crazy topspin and power like Fed but was using too much wrist doing so. I cant understand how he swings so fast with so much topspin and power.


    BH: Totally agree on everything. I will try to take the racquet back with the face pointing straight at the ball right? with the left hand dominating more and the right playing a passive role. Should I swing more down to up on both the forehand and the backhand? And shorten my backswing on the BH as well?


    Slice: I never knew why on many slices my shot would float upwards rather than stay low and flat. Now I get it. I will try not to use my elbow and wrist as I stupidly do and keep my arm straight when I hit the backhand and do the back and chest on thing which you have suggested. I dont know when I seem to try all these preparations I screw things up more. But I guess I have to stick with it and try.

    Yours Sir or Madam has been a deeply informative post and given me much food for thought.
     
    #27
  28. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Well I'm flatfooted so I run through shoes. These are nice, comfortable with good grip. Adidas court response
     
    #28
  29. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Don't dispair. I'm much older than you are. It's not that complicated. Like all skills, you have to work on them until they become automatic. It's not just about early preparation, you have to "load up" correctly, at some point before the ball gets there, if you want to be balanced and set up correctly to hit your best shot. A wider, lower stance will help with that a lot. You don't want to be too early because if you are slightly off for any reason (wind, bad bounce, side spin, misjudge), you'll be off balance (reaching or crowded), when you hit the ball. That's what last moment adjustment steps are for just before you transfer your weight from one foot to the other. This video, courtesy of our own aimr75, shows what world class shot preparation looks like, from court level.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6p5ZdGR4hU

    Sometimes a video is worth a few thousand words. Just watch and imitate this guy aka "The Lock & Roll Guy." His forehand technique is just about perfect, IMO:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo&feature=player_embedded

    With two hands on the racquet, the only way you can move the racquet is with upper body rotation, elbow bend and wrist release. I'm telling you to eliminate the elbow bend until after contact. So, it's all UBR and wrist release. With two hands on the racquet, it's impossible to move the racquet from in front of your sternum without bending your elbows. Which means that the racquet stays in front of your sternum througout your backswing and forward swing until after contact. Take the racquet straight back with UBR, the racquet head pointing up, right arm straight, and the face facing the side fence. Keep your wrists and hands loose and relaxed so that the racquet head drops below the ball at the start of the forward swing. Treat a 2hb like a left handed forehand with a forehand swing path with a modified WW motion finishing over the shoulder. IMO, Andre Agassi has the greatest BH in the history of tennis and his 2hb is the prototype for everyone to learn from. Watch it, imitate it, own it. Obviously, with a straight right arm, the "precision" of your footwork and shot preparation is all the more important. Here are a few examples:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIq1JwaNUbs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qv6S7KJug
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y&feature=endscreen&NR=1

    You have to stick with it. One important aspect is that you make contact on a slice backhand later (with the ball behind your lead foot), than you do with a 2hb (with the ball equal to, or slightly in front of, your lead foot). Again, it's mostly UBR. When you take the racquet back, straighten your elbow and pronate your arm so the racquet head drops below your hand. With a straight arm, pull the butt of the racquet toward the ball, and suppinate the forearm which accelerates the racquet head into contact. At contact, carve under the ball and across finishing with the racquet head UP at about 2:00 O'Clock (from above). Understand that this pronation/suppination action is EVERYTHING on a slice backhand.

    I learned how to hit a proper "traditional" backhand slice from this Wilson TV commercial with a 3 second view of Billie Jean King's slice backhand. That was my "AHA" moment. Since she's taking a high ball, she exaggerates the pronation/suppination action I refer to. (It doesn't show the backswing or the follow through, but, you'll get the idea. It's also a superimposed image that looks like she's at the net. She's not this is a full swinging groundstroke). This action is what makes a "traditional" slice so versatile for touch, power and everything in between, and especially the preferred shot for taking high balls and balls on the stretch. But, to be sure, the same action works for balls from the ankle to as high as you can reach. With this action, you can be on the full stretch, off the court, with the ball over your shoulder and your back to the target, and you can still turn hard, hurl the racquet head at the ball, and tear the cover off of the ball to anywhere on the court with a drive/slice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIvxP9VMo9I

    It's sir, and thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
    #29
  30. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Wow thank you so much for the effort and the videos. Awesome stuff.
    Preparation: It seems to me that the moment these guys hit the ball his opponent takes the racquet back in shot mode and than unloads on the ball.

    FH: This guy explains the forehand pretty well I think. I will definately try this out tomm on the court and see if I can generate pace and topspin with this swing. Hopefully after practise I can get somewhere near it.

    BH: Agassi seems to prepare real early keep the elbows straight and then just before hitting the ball the racquet head drops back abit before he drives it. From what I could get from it was his early prep. And his arms being straight EXACTLY as you said. Brilliant.

    Slice. On the slice I watched it in slow motion a bunch of times and get it. I hope I can replicate it because when I hit the slice I tend to hit underneath the ball too much and my slice does not carry much pace. But I can see this slice actually drives through the ball.

    Again I thank you a million times. your advice coupled with the informative videos are illuminating.
     
    #30
  31. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    #31
  32. Mountain Ghost

    Mountain Ghost Semi-Pro

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    Forehand

    Going back with your handle (and your elbow) at the start of your backswing HAS to stop. The foreward stroke is fine, but your ability to get your racquet head back early and with control when the level of play (and pace) rises will never happen the way it is. Until you fix this you are where you are permanently!

    MG
     
    #32
  33. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Hmm..your best fh stroke is the one at 0:05. Learn and repeat that stroke. Overtime just hit that stroke harder and harder and you'll be set.
     
    #33
  34. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    no. the fh at 0:05 is not good at all. there's no weight transfer and he over rotates on that one.

    the 2 fh's beginning at 0:57 are much better. those are the ones you should work towards.
     
    #34
  35. Wuppy

    Wuppy Professional

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    The OP saying he's a 2.0 is ridiculous. He's deliberately lowballing himself so people don't gang up on him here. Having said that we don't exactly know where the ball is going but given the motion he's likely a 3.0, after a year of matches he could probably play at 3.5 as long as he has a decent *************. ("sec0nd-serve" is banned?)

    Anyway, the only thing I see with the motions that really annoys me is the limp-wrist thing he does at the very beginning of his FH backswing. Other than that it's a solid 3.5 motion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
    #35
  36. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    great. now people will be quoting your post saying "I know/heard about a guy that played D3 tennis and was only ranked 2.0" :wink:
     
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  37. connico

    connico Rookie

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    That head moves around alot. Gotta keep it focused on the point of contact a little longer. Let the body do its work.

    Look up pronation specifically on the forehand and start adopting it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
    #37
  38. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    yap, solid 3.5 indeed :roll: In other words you are saying that OP would get steamrolled (or at aleast soundly beaten) by this benchmark 4.0 NTPR player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFXr1_Yxz9o
     
    #38
  39. Wuppy

    Wuppy Professional

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    "Louie," the guy in that vid, would get destroyed at 3.5 in Southern California.
     
    #39
  40. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    #40
  41. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    DId you mean when I invert the handle and the elbow? Im trying to correct it.
     
    #41
  42. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    YOu mean I should keep my palms facing downward before hitting the forehand?
     
    #42
  43. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Let me make one thing quite clear. I am not "lowballing". I am a newbie on this website and whilst looking at this threads such as mine before joining saw the mostly helpful advice (mixed in with some trash and dogfights) thought it worthwhile to help me improve my game. How and why would I lowball since I am new to this.

    It may be hard for you to believe but I genuinely think I am 2 or 2.5 and want to imrpove my game. That is the aim. I am not interested in NUMBERS which you seemingly are. This thread is not about numbers or rankings . it is about IMPROVING my game.

    So its better for me from now on to respond to those who actually are constructive and positive with their criticism. Rather than accusatory.Thanks anyways
     
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  44. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    The link that Limpinhitter provided about the modern forehand seems real tasty to try which I will today. If one can master that I guess one is set. I wonder if any or you peeps hit that shot in that style?
     
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  45. shindemac

    shindemac Hall of Fame

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    This has already been said before. Your forehand is sometimes good, and other times lacking. Sometimes you hit off balance and out of position. Your motion varies a lot from swing to swing.

    The biggest thing to work on is your footwork. With practice, your movement and court positioning will improve so that you won't hit any more stinkers.
     
    #45
  46. connico

    connico Rookie

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    I mean pronate when during the contact of the ball.

    Just look at the lock and roll video, it shows it kinda.
     
    #46
  47. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    Nice, the old, always convenient to use 'my X rated NTPR is way better than your X rated NTPR' argument.

    So I do not live in California, therefore I can't see the players in person. But what I can do is, well, check the results, which one could argue is a true indication of level.

    A quick search on USTA site shows this:
    http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/Main/StatsAndStandings.aspx?t=14&SearchType=19&TargetLevel=0&CYear=2011&DivisionType=1&NTRP=3.5&Gender=M&TLNodeID=DB0097D2739023D67CED925AC9D8AF6E8D3C (see flight 6)
    Not sure how am I supposed to interpret this. Because it clearly reads that 3.5 NorCal team beat 3.5 SoCal team 4:1.
    The player I provided a video of is from NorCal section, and is rated 4.0. So what you are implying is the following:
    While 3.5 NorCal players can compete and win against 3.5 SoCal players, the 4.0 NorCal player would get destroyed by 3.5 SoCal player. Yap, your reasoning seems to be based on solid evidence:roll:
     
    #47
  48. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7,012
    No. It's very good and fitting as the first thing to pick up from where he is.

    It is simple and easy to learn.
     
    #48
  49. liuser

    liuser New User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    If you want power and spin on your forehand, I would suggest you activating more of your core and your legs by pushing yourself into the court as you strike the ball. Also, stop the windshield wiper motion and accelerate through and past the strike zone over your shoulder. Spin and power are all based on racket head speed anyway. Focus on trying trying to accelerate your forehand past your contact point and through and over your shoulder. Almost as if you want your swing to be faster after you've made contact.

    For your backhand, You need to do a better job of first centering your body weight, then pushing yourself forward into the court using your legs. Stop bending over at the waist.
     
    #49
  50. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    188
    Yups I tried the lock and roll forehand today just hitting with a way better player than me and I was having some difficulty. the part for me where I feel I was screwing it up was trying to take my backswing too far back so that I could do the hips lock thing but than when I tried to come forward was constantly hitting the net.

    On some rare ones i made proper contact sort off in the prescribed forehand was first taking one step forward and then taking the hips and racquet back. And at times I was bending too much and other times not enough.

    Maybe it would be better for me to try and learn this forehand doing drills instead I dont know.
     
    #50

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