helloworld
Hall of Fame
That's it. Now I am convinced that his knowledge of tennis isn't any better than his knowlege of basic physics. Poor guy. :-|
I think radar guns are rigged
- Thread starter HappyChappy
- Start date
helloworld
Hall of Fame
i'd really like to see happy's strokes on youtube. maybe he's right. i'll do anything to fix my god awful forehand including "pseudo physics".
It's easy. Imagine your entire arm as a steel bar and then hit the crap out of the ball, and see what happens.
HappyChappy
Rookie
1)I didn't say levers were psuedo science, I said the explanation using them was.
2)I'm going to explain this very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very simply so you can understand this:
got it?
1)I didn't say levers were psuedo science, I said the explanation using them was.
2)I'm going to explain this very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very simply so you can understand this:
got it?
I said increasing the length of the arm, a.k.a. the lever, (which means not to use the double bend) the entire time, but I guess you're too stupid to realize that.
You said the pseudo physics concering levers meanign that it ignores the law of conservation of energy. You sir have been proven wrong multiple times by just pure facts. I said by EXTENDING THE LENGTH OF THE LEVER IN A THIRD CLASS LEVER (WHICH IS YOUR ARM) WILL ALLOW YOU TO HAVE A GREATER OUTPUT FORCE. SIMPLE PHYSICS. I DID NOT SAY EXTEND ANY OTHER AREA.
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HappyChappy
Rookie
I guess you're too stupid to realise that the arm is the load, and increasing the length of the arm makes it heavier.
The arm is not 'the lever', you don't understand what a lever is, do you little man? (sigh)
Ask anyone that has taken a physics class and tell them an arm isn't a lever. They'll look at you like an idiot.
Your arm is a third-class lever. It is this lever action that makes it possible for you to flex your arms so quickly. Your elbow is the fulcrum. Your biceps muscle, which ties onto your forearm about an inch below the elbow, applies the effort; your hand is the resistance, located about 18 inches from the fulcrum. In the split second it takes your biceps muscle to contract an inch, your hand has moved through an 18-inch arc. You know from experience that it takes a big pull at E to overcome a relatively small resistance at R. Just to experience this principle, try closing a door by pushing on it about 3 or 4 inches from the hinges (fulcrum). The moral is, you don’t use third-class levers to do heavy jobs; you use them to gain speed.
As taken from http://www.tpub.com/machines/1b.htm
Third-class levers
It is to be noted that for this class of levers, the input effort is higher than the output load, which is different from second-class levers and some first-class levers. However, the distance moved by the resistance (load) is greater than the distance moved by the effort. Since this motion occurs in the same length of time, the resistance necessarily moves faster than the effort. Thus, a third-class lever still has its uses in making certain tasks easier to do. In third class levers, effort is applied between the output load on one end and the fulcrum on the opposite end.
Examples:
Arm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever#Third-class_levers
Q: What are examples of a third class lever
Arm
Baseball bat
Boat paddle
Broom
Door
Fishing rod
Hockey stick
Mandible
Mousetrap
Nail clippers, the main body handle exerts the incoming force
Shovel
Sling
Spoon, when used for flinging food, which uses the index finger as the fulcrum, the thumb as the effort, and the load is the food
Tools, such as a hoe or scythe
Tweezers
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_examples_of_a_third_class_lever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_aVcxB0TY
In this video, you can CLEARLY SEE AT 1:34 THAT THEY STATE THE ARM IS A LEVER.
I mean honestly, how much more evidence do I need to present to you?
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HappyChappy
Rookie
You misunderstand your source.
When they say the arm, they are including the shoulder, and the muscles that pull the shoulder.All those together are the lever.Lengthening the lever as a whole will not have the effect you anticipate.Increasing the 'effort' half, between the shoulder and the neck, will boost power. increasing the load half, between the shoulder and the fingertips, won't, in fact, it will make the arm heavier.
When they say the arm, they are including the shoulder, and the muscles that pull the shoulder.All those together are the lever.Lengthening the lever as a whole will not have the effect you anticipate.Increasing the 'effort' half, between the shoulder and the neck, will boost power. increasing the load half, between the shoulder and the fingertips, won't, in fact, it will make the arm heavier.
Honestly after this statement I have given up, there's no point in arguing with you anymore. You don't use any facts to support your arguments nor do you use any sources.
HappyChappy
Rookie
How do you mean I don't use facts?Of course I have.You are clearly in waaaaaaay over your head here.
use your own sources to double check what I said.
nothing without a fulcrum is a lever you idiot.
IMO, trying to think of a tennis stroke in terms of levers is a maddening exercise in frustration. I mean you have to account for so many actions from feet, legs, hips, trunk, shoulder, upper arm, elbow, forearm, wrist, even the neck and head get involved. Then you have to consider rotational leverage as well. It's extremely complicated.
Serve n' Volley
Semi-Pro
HappyChappy, he has you beat, just shutup now and be a good little boy.
The arm doesn't have a fulcrum then? I guess it isn't a lever at all, and Jeff must be completely wrong in his analysis of the use of the arm in the forehand groundstroke.
A. You said levers were pseudo physics which I proved you wrong
B. You said levers do not follow the conservation of energy which I've proved you wrong
C. I've already displayed to you with a third class lever is, why the arm is a third class lever, and how it works.
D. I've already stated that as long as you keep all forces in tact, the longer lever will win in the end because the longer distace (Force X Distance is the formula used to calculate the work load).
E. The arm is a lever in itself, if you don't believe me ask any other sane person who's taken a little bit of physics. It's the most simple piece of physics you could ever figure out.
F. Davydenko's Forehand is nothing like Federer's (which I proved with physics theory just for you, I mean I could honestly go on and do mathematical calculations based on Federer/Davydenko's height and calculate their output, but that would take quite awhile and I'm lazy). Davydenko also has a semi-western grip, Federer has a much more moderate grip then even that, closer to an eastern grip, but still somewhat semi-western.
You've been proven wrong on multiple ocassions, and you have no right to really post anything about radar guns being rigged. Technology has improved, players have gotten stronger. Of course serve MPHs will go up.
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K
kirschbomb
Guest
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Could we get back to the original question about radar guns and the change in serve speeds? I think the point about measuring closer to contact today would explain much of the difference. I'd like to know how much the ball slows down from a) point of contact to a couple feet in front of the net to b) just before hitting the court and c) after it bounces just before the returnerer hits it...
Anyone have any idea or ever seen that measured? Or has anyone ever measured with a radar gun a couple feet in front of you vs. right in front of the net to see how much the ball slows down?
Anyone have any idea or ever seen that measured? Or has anyone ever measured with a radar gun a couple feet in front of you vs. right in front of the net to see how much the ball slows down?
I don't think it's rigged but it's mainly the location where the speed is being measured.
In 90's, they measured at the center, just about the serve passes net.
Now they measure it right after the ball leaves the racquet.
Plus today's radar gun abit more accurate.
You know the hairy tennis ball is designed to lose lots of speeds as it travels and bounces.
This difference in measuring point could make a considerable differences in numbers.
Right around 2001-2003, Andre Agassi suddenly started to hit 130mph. And Agassi commented that there must be some diff in radar gun because he doesn't usually hit 130.
It isn't rigged. But numbers are different now. I am pretty sure Sampras would hit 140 range
at least occasionally if he was playing now.
I wouldn't subscribe to any conspiracy theory but this re-arrangement of serving speed measurement coincidentally happened when new management for ATP took over and started to slow down the surface speed and using current heavy "water mellon" balls.....
$$$$mony$$$$
Banned
third class levers
A lever with its point of effort between the fulcrum and the resistance or load. It is the most common type of lever used in the human body. Since the distance between the resistance and the fulcrum is usually greater than the distance between the effort and fulcrum, the effort is greater than the load, but such levers provide a good range of movement at speed. The usual function of a lever is to gain a mechanical advantage, whereby a small force applied over a large distance at one end of the lever produces a greater force operating over a smaller distance at the other end of the lever
A lever with its point of effort between the fulcrum and the resistance or load. It is the most common type of lever used in the human body. Since the distance between the resistance and the fulcrum is usually greater than the distance between the effort and fulcrum, the effort is greater than the load, but such levers provide a good range of movement at speed. The usual function of a lever is to gain a mechanical advantage, whereby a small force applied over a large distance at one end of the lever produces a greater force operating over a smaller distance at the other end of the lever
Gee, I didn't see this coming a mile away when I saw the topic of the thread or anything...
K
kirschbomb
Guest
I sometimes wonder if tennis in its entirety is rigged...
burosky
Professional
Bi serving americans? What does sexual preference have to do with it? Just kidding. I know that was a typo. It just looked funny at first glance.
HappyChappy
Rookie
Bi serving americans? What does sexual preference have to do with it? Just kidding. I know that was a typo. It just looked funny at first glance.
haha, lol
don_nguyen11490
Rookie
Could this be significant? I vaguely remember anything from my physics class, but an increase in weight must have some kind of bearing on serve speeds.
Sanyi
Banned
Ivanisevic was a serving monster and 1 yr at W his fastest serve was 122mph, 1 of the years he made the finale His 1st serve average was about 116mph of memory is good. I don't remember exactly when the jump took place, but all of a sudden 1 yr his 1st serve average was at least 125 and was regularly serving 135mph.
When he won in 2001, he was getting treatment on his shoulder between games and it hurt so bad that he had to bite down on a towel. I think he even had tears in his eyes. He was still serving 130mph at that time.
when they say that Andy 'busted ass serving motion' Roddick is the fastest server of all time, I don't believe them for 1 moment.
When he won in 2001, he was getting treatment on his shoulder between games and it hurt so bad that he had to bite down on a towel. I think he even had tears in his eyes. He was still serving 130mph at that time.
when they say that Andy 'busted ass serving motion' Roddick is the fastest server of all time, I don't believe them for 1 moment.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
Nobody cares if you dont belive them, the record books says he has it and he does.
Sanyi
Banned
Ehhhhhh! wrong answer! Plenty of people care
Just because Ivanisevic hurt his shoulder terribly due to his serving doesn't mean that he served faster. There are many players who get injured but aren't the best in whatever they do. Also, though some people do care, I'd think most people would look in a record book and say, "Wow, Andy Roddick. Cool." and then leave it at that.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
Plenty of people care? Like who. Name some people por favor. The average sports fan or tennis fan doesn't care. Like lolsmash said, people just look in the books, say oh cool, and thats it.
chuckmckool
New User
the balls are less heavy on grass
takl23
Semi-Pro
BeHappy actually makes sense sometimes though, HappyChappy is just plain out ignorant.
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