I think there should be a 1 foreigner per team rule

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by Railbird, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. Coach Carter

    Coach Carter Rookie

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    as long as coaches are paid and expected to win, then the pressure will be there to recruit the best players in the world...not the best in the US or even the kids we like the most.
     
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  2. region2champion

    region2champion Rookie

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    I know Delic personally but i don't know if he was born here, i'll have to ask him
     
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  3. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    He's a naturalized American citizen.
     
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  4. region2champion

    region2champion Rookie

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    Yeah cause he has a little bit of an accent
     
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  5. Tennisguy777

    Tennisguy777 Professional

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    If they can Ball let them Ball! Talent has nothing to do with nationality. If they enforce the rules they have now half the problems would disappear. So long as these guys are coming to get an education and are not touring pros, there really is no problem. Possibly putting a limit to 4 foreign born players per team is possibly fair so that you don't have an invasion on the tennis team but then again this would beg the debate of affirmative action too - How many divison 1 teams are black player less, asian less, hispanic less. The problem that bothers me is that you have players who turned pro in Europe and coming here to play college. I think once you turn pro or circuit no college play for you - you're too good already this would cut the problem by 75% easy!
     
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  6. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    My college team, which won an NCAA title, had 5 foreigners out of the top 6 players. I'm sure if you asked the coach why he had so many foreigners he would have told you he was hired by the University to produce a winning team--just like every other coach in every other sport. Coaches are hired to win, when they don't they get fired. If the best players available are foreign can you really blame the coach for bringing them in? Colleges and Universities allow foreigners to enter and study, why should the sports programs be any different?
     
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  7. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    We should have a rule similar to what FIFA president Sepp Blatter proposed should be done with soccer. He suggested there be a "six plus five" rule imposed on all professional club soccer teams. The rule is like this:

    A starting lineup in soccer consists of 11 players. The rule would mandate that 6 players had to be home grown players, and that the remaining 5 spots could betaken up by foreigners.

    Something should be imposed by the NCAA, regardless of sport. No matter the size of the team, a majority of the team, no matter how large or small the majority is, should be american players. The remaining spots can be taken up by foreigners.

    Whoever says that this won't help American tennis is an idiot. By allowing less foreigners on the team, you know each foreigner will be top-notch because some there will be less spots available to them so coaches will be inclined to find the best foreigner they can. If the foreigner is that good, they'll help raise the level of play among the rest of the team, who may or may not be just as good as said foreigner.
     
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  8. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    So, go on with your proposal. Are you saying that 4 of the top 6 must be Americans, since that's more or less a starting line-up? Or are you saying that at least 1/2 the players, regardless of where they are in the line-up, must be American?

    Your use of the word "idiot" is pretty harsh. I don't think anybody has said it wouldn't help "American tennis". What people have said, and what you don't really address, is that putting quotas on the number of Americans could hurt the overall quality of college tennis because it would make it a requirement to have more players that may not be as good as what is currently the status quo.

    Please explain how your proposal would help parity in college tennis, especially at the very top. Do you think Stanford wouldn't have gotten the blue chip American athletes they snagged (Thacher, Klahn, Kandath & Kehrer)? These guys still would have gone to Stanford. How does this help with parity for D1 schools like Northern Arizona or Longwood or Lipscomb?

    It would be wonderful for Americans in terms of the number of people getting to play. But, first and foremost, American players need to expand their horizons. Not everybody can go to the Stanfords and USCs and expect to play tennis. American players can't discount other schools - some of which they've probably never heard of. This is a point that has been brought up time and again - by coaches, as well. They often can't get American players to want to come to their school. Not saying this is always the case - some coaches actively recruit foreigners; other coaches have to recruit foreigners because of lack of interest among quality Americans.
     
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  9. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    In the starting lineup, place doesn't matter, just in the starting lineup. Or, simply, there should be an American majority in the entire team. Either one is fine by me.

    People have said putting a quota would take the level of competition down a notch or two. This hurts American tennis because we still would have kids like Harrison or Thatcher or Klahn who may go pro after college. These kids wouldn't be exposed to the best talent because we wouldn't allow all of the best foreign talent into the country to play college ball, just some of them.

    Haven't figured that one out yet. I'll edit my post when I come up with a good answer. You bring up a good point though.

    True. American players need to broaden their horizons. But, can you expect someone to do that after learning that some of even the worser teams are all foreigners and the coaches don't even hold tryouts? I know a guy who used to be the head coach of Hofstra. He recruited exclusively from foreign countries and didn't have tryouts. When people hear things like that, do you want them to keep trying, or know that they can't achieve something and just stop?
     
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  10. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    College sports is meant for college students! American college students. You do have a point though! Colleges are just businesses and college sports is no different.
     
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  11. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    Finally somebody with a brain! I agree 100%. Problem is American Universities are just businesses and most of the people they employ are just there to make money, many of whom are anti- american to start with.
    Bottom line though. Nobody gives a crap about tennis. This would never be a problem in football or basketball.
     
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  12. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    It's not a problem in football because non-Americans don't really play football.

    It's not a problem in basketball because talented foreign players typically play professionally well before turning 18 and generally prefer to play for money instead of attending school. 'Minor league' (lower level challengers, futures level) tennis does not pay enough to be a viable lifestyle, so, for foreign tennis players, college tennis in the US provides an option to do something that they would be unable to do otherwise: concentrate fully on tennis for another four years. Good foreign basketball players are not faced with this decision, as they can make plenty of money playing in various basketball leagues. Ironically, many American college basketball players who aren't good enough to play in the NBA end up playing in these foreign leagues after college - so what would be the purpose of college for these foreign players who are already in those leagues? It's just 4 years less money.

    In other words, the difference isn't just that college tennis is not a big-name sport in America like college football and basketball. If college coaches in those sports thought that recruiting more foreign-born talent was the way to win, then no one would stop them.
     
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  13. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    I understand college hockey has similar influx of foreigners playing on many teams.Most of them are Canadians, do they count as foreigners? JK Lot's of track and cross-country teams have foreigners on them as well. Trying to stop or even limit foreigners playing college sports when there is more than enough programs and room for American kids to play at is fruitless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
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  14. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    I think there should be a 1 foreigner per team rule

    Maybe we could go back to just all-white football & basketball teams too.
    Maybe separate water fountains.
     
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  15. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    I don't think it will happen. 1 reason, Winning has become just too important in college sports. It is SAD but true. so if you want to compete and win, then you can't help it but go outside of US to get foreign players, just cause other colleges are doing it. Losing programs don't get the funding and they become discontinued in athletic program.:(
     
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  16. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    Not sure how there is any comparison. Americans whose parents pay taxes and tuition should have first priority, that includes all americans. Don't get me wrong I think some amount of European or South American or whatever, participation is good. Just maybe 1/3 the team instead of 3/4 or more like many schools are now.
     
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  17. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    If winning is "too important in college sports" and "SAD but true" why do college sports keep score? Losing tennis programs don't always get discontinued because they lose, it's more often Title 9 and financial considerations. An underfunded tennis program may be tied back to the coach as many tennis programs have to do their own fund raising to supplement their low budgets provided by the university.
     
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  18. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    How would rule be justified and applied to private colleges whose tennis program is privately endowed? Would private colleges be included in the limitations?
     
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  19. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Here we go again...

    Athletic scholarships tend NOT to be funded by tax dollars. Athletic scholarships are generally funded by revenues made from revenue sports and from donations that lead to endowment.
     
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  20. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    Which has nothing to do with anything. Who cares who funds the scholarships.
    My point was that Americans ought to have priority in their own country. Just like Europeans should have priority to play in European leagues, which I have heard isn't the case there either.
     
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  21. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    If they want to be in the NCAA than yes.
    If they want to do their own NAIA thing than whatever.
     
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  22. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    In other words, the difference isn't just that college tennis is not a big-name sport in America like college football and basketball. If college coaches in those sports thought that recruiting more foreign-born talent was the way to win, then no one would stop them.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah I totally disagree, especially with the "nobody would stop them comment."
    If little Johnny didn't make the football or baseball team because a student from another country took his spot heads would roll. Maybe a player here and there wouldn't be an issue, but if football teams started playing 90% foreign students the media would be all over that!
     
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  23. Coach Carter

    Coach Carter Rookie

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    look at college basketball...there are more and more foreign players coming in. guys...it's business...there is pressure to succeed. I am a D3 coach and feel pressure to win...it makes you seek the "cream of the crop", if you have hungry kids from outside the US that can help your team and are thankful for the opportunity (did you catch that part)...then you'll take them. remember, just from reading this stuff...there is a attitude of "expectation" here in the US. I have mentioned talking to tons of players here in Texas ranked in that range that I know should be looking D3 to be a real good team player (supers ranked say 40 and up)...many are expecting Coach Center from UT-Austin to call any day. It's crazy!
     
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  24. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    College Football is to College tennis as apples are to oranges. Although if one imagines your argument has some sense. However, when discussing NCAA Division 1 college football is played on TV with TV revenues associated with doing so, often has packed stadiums in the larger conferences, sells merchandise, has a large bowl system with revenues and that bowl system in some cases spreads large amounts of monies to other schools in their conferences. Football, unlike tennis has a larger number of participants and is some cases funds other sports programs and brings donors/boosters to the athletic departments bringing with them private donations that help fund the rest of the university sport programs. Tennis in comparison does not do this. Overseas football is not popular and foreign infiltration is far fetched.

    Coach Carter makes a good point. College Basketball has plenty of foreigners and more coming to play every year. Hockey has plenty of foreigners in the college ranks. I don't hear an outcry there. Coach Carter is right and I've previously made the argument. Good American tennis players (some not all) expect to play at the biggest and brightest schools or if not they sometimes don't play at all. Too bad more tennis playing juniors don't open their minds to the possibilities of playing where there talents are a good fit. There's plenty of very good schools out there. Just look.
     
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