I was on the court next to a 16 yo junior tournie final yesterday

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by dman72, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    There's actually a very good book written about this called: The Death of Common Sense.
    Since teachers and such didn't use good common sense in dealing with problem kids, now kids are expelled from school WITH NO EXCEPTIONS for such things as having a plastic knife for their peanut butter in their lunch bag. (and even kids being expelled for having peanut butter at all)

    I hope you aren't supporting such policies.
     
    #51
  2. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The zero-tolerance laws are being changed right now across the country.

    People should use common sense.

    But the old common sense was not good at all. I grew up in the times of old common sense and it was just a set of prejudices and dangerous practices passed off as common sense. I like it much better today for the kids.
     
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  3. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Common sense is what is used against prejudice and dangerous practices. Lack of common sense is what causes these. Seems like you are confused. Dismissing common sense as prejudiced and dangerous allows for a society based on senselessness and irrationality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
    #53
  4. silentkman

    silentkman New User

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    from my vantage point the top level Junior level 3 etc will hook whenever they can. sans the TOP Div 1 programs you have roving umpires that can't see everything. The bottom line is nobody wants to pay for umpires. tennis players learn how to cheat at an early age because of the lack of umpires.
     
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  5. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Kids must be taught to be honest. Honesty is more important than winning a tennis match. It reflects poorly on their parents as well as the players.
     
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  6. sovertennis

    sovertennis Semi-Pro

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    Although I'm not a psychologist, I'd opine that the vast majority of kids are inherently honest but too often are taught (generally by adults who have some stake, no matter how trivial or misguided, in the kid's activity, eg tennis) to be dishonest. The result is the same: a kid who misses the whole point of playing a sport.
     
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  7. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    I'm no psychologist either, but I think I disagree. It's the word inherent that you used I have a problem with. I think children are inherently dis-honest and self-centered. It's good parenting that instills the values of honesty and not to be self-centered. Also siblings tend to dish out penalties for acts of dis-honesty and self-centeredness in their own way.
     
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  8. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. Innocence of children is a myth.
     
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  9. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    There's a theory in Western philosophy of the "tabula rasa", that we are born with a blank slate, learning from life experiences and that "humans" are not born inherently good or bad.
     
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  10. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    ^ By philosopher John Locke. Nature vs Nurture is a scholarly debate.
     
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Like most philosophies, it does not stand up to scrutiny by science.

    We are born with certain things hard-coded in our genes, which can be good or bad as interpreted morally. Then on top of that are the life experiences.
     
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  12. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    Little kids (age 2,3, 4) have little respect for other toddlers possesions or feelings. That is not a learned behavior. They may in some ways be a blank slate... but the tendancies is towards behaviors that are very self-centered. They see something, they want it, they take it. That isn't taught... in most cases that is taught OUT of them.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    More difficult is the issue of really evil children. To what extent can they be blamed? We don't blame young crocodiles for pouncing on their prey. Are these evil human children to be looked at the same way? I have known a few and it is very hard to keep yourself from hating them personally. They can be extraordinarily sadistic.
     
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  14. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    "Science" is merely the religion of this day--whose study do you believe? Someday our "scientific" notions like global warming will be laughed at and ridiculed like "the sky is falling" was in the past. When Al Gore gets a Noble Prize you just have to laugh.
     
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  15. Orange

    Orange Rookie

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    There's another theory that we are born sinners.

    I don't think it is possible to find truth as to which competing theory is correct in a tennis forum.
     
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  16. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    One should not judge "science" by the actions of the global warming fanatics. There is nothing scientific about global warming hysteria - in fact, the appeals to "consensus" and the attempts to silence those with evidence to the contrary of a drastic multiplier effect of carbon dioxide concentrations on temperature are completely unscientific.
    People who are willing to do actual science will be the ones who debunk the global warming superstition.
    Science and religion are separate entities, there is no reason that they would be incompatible.

    (No one doubts that higher carbon dioxide concentrations will help warm the earth slightly. However, the predictions of the radical view - that feedback mechanisms will drastically increase this warming into an terrible scenario and that there are no other major factors that can affect climate such as the sun, cosmic rays, ocean current behavior, volcanic behavior, etc. all of which have been shown to affect climate - has been pretty much debunked by the actual behavior of the earth's atmosphere since the computer model predictions were made.)
     
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  17. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Lleyton Hewitt changed tennis, it's more fiery and passionate now as a result.
     
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  18. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    Signed,

    John McEnroe
    Jimmy Conners
    Ille Nastase
    Boris becker
    Ivan Lendl
    etc.
    etc....
     
    #68
  19. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

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    Hey,

    check out the annoying kids in this video. You don't need to watch the whole thing, payoff is in the first 2 minutes.

    2 UEs by opponent = 2 fist pumps + 2 come ons!

    Nearby courts also have annoying noises emanating from them.

    12 years old. Wow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpwvqCNZscY
     
    #69
  20. Alex78

    Alex78 Semi-Pro

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    Seeing how this thread has been on "appropriate behavior on the tennis court in general", I thought I'd ask you guys how you would handle the following situation:
    My old team (I live in another city now) played a league game a few weeks ago. In winter, there are less teams playing than in the summer, so the level of play may vary considerably from one team to another. In this league game, my old team (most of them are 30+ years old) played against a junior team, where most of the players were under 18 years of age. There are 4 singles and 2 doubles matches, and the score was 4-0 in favor of the junior team after the singles. In one of the then-meaningless doubles matches, two U-18 juniors were playing two 30+ year olds. One of the kids was loading up and aiming for the net guy's body all the time; with every second serve (they usually come without much pace, placement, or spin at this level) he'd line up with his racket raised on his forehand side and just blast at the guy standing at the net. In the process, he hit him several times with body shots. Juniors had a coach, who was just standing there, saying nothing.
    I know that this is within the rules, of course, but all the same, if that had been me receiving multiple body shots, I would have told the little guy to stop doing this after giving him the benefiit of the doubt for one, maybe two body shots. Then, I would have stopped playing altogether.
    Like I said, this was a meaningless doubles match because the score for the
    league game was already decided in favor of the juniors team.
    Too sensitive? - I was especially shocked to learn that apparently the coach was encouraging this kind of behavior from the juniors...
     
    #70
  21. Kalin

    Kalin Professional

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    As someone who played soccer for 20+ years in a very physical position and has had run-ins with over-confident juniors I could tell you what I'd do but it may end up with you being in jail.... so better not. But you get my drift
     
    #71
  22. Alex78

    Alex78 Semi-Pro

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    Yep, I get it. That's why I am glad I wasn't in that situation myself ;)
    I'm sure the temptation to retaliate would have been strong...
     
    #72
  23. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    The net guy could have just, you know, moved back to the baseline. Seems like a rational thing to do if he can't handle the shots being hit at him when he's at net.
     
    #73
  24. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    imo, good doubles. If he can't handle the second serve return (can be trouble if consistantly short) he needs to play two back.... Then he can patiently await his own short ball opportunity.
     
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  25. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    Retaliate certainly. But this is doubles. Can't stand this "net guy immunity" thing among some. It is an entirely different game when the net guy doesn't have to worry about being challanged.
     
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  26. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    It's a competitive situation and at least supposed to be players of the same level (not 5.0 vs. 3.0 or mixed). It's legal and fair to go at the net guy. It's not very sporting if the match is a blowout. I'd just tell the juniors that they were being jerks after the match.
     
    #76
  27. Alex78

    Alex78 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for the latest replies, they're appreciated!
    The way I choose to look at something like this is simply: I play tennis for fun, and if such a game is in essence meaningless, I just wouldn't want to accept this kind of behavior. Although I have to admit right here that I would personally stand back at the baseline myself if my partner had a weak second serve, to avoid this kind of situation altogether (as tennis_ocd suggests). But still, you can just hit hard without aiming explicitly - and ostentatively - for the body, at least in my opinion. Like when I play doubles, I try to hit a passing shot down the line IF I see the space, or I go cross-court, but I just don't drill the net guy.
     
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  28. Oz_Rocket

    Oz_Rocket Semi-Pro

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    Depending upon the situation you can get done for unsportsmanlike conduct. Particularly if it was done repeatedly and directed at an opponent after they'd made a U/E.
     
    #78
  29. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    Define "fun." I'll submit that many take great pleasure out of challanging the net guy... and many net players great fun at rising to the challange. Assuming rather equal abilities, it is one of doubles greatest pleasures.
     
    #79
  30. Alex78

    Alex78 Semi-Pro

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    I see what you mean.
    "Fun" as in "not getting hurt intentionally", coupled with common sense and some mutual respect. Do I have a problem with being hit at hard? No, I don't. Do I have a problem with getting intentionally hit on my body? You bet. Fun ends there.
     
    #80
  31. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Really? :confused:

    Assuming you're around 42-43 based on your screen name.
     
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