I Won't Miss The NBA

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by ollinger, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    No, not because of the selfish hot-dog play with guys missing slam dunks when they could have just dropped it in the hole, but because basketball seems to me to make the least sense of any major team sport. I subscribe to that axiom that there's no point in watching until the last five minutes (if then, even). Here's the study I'd like one of you obsessives out there to do: gather data on football games in which a team led by 14 after a quarter, soccer games in which a team led by 3 goals at the half, baseball games in which a team led by 3 after the fifth inning, hockey games in which a team led by 2 goals after a period, and basketball games in which a team led by 15 after a quarter. (The numbers here are illustrative and subject to change.) I would wager that early leads are the least meaningful in basketball, as the game for the most part is a metronome of trading buckets and trading point spurts. Maybe if they shorten the games to 5 minutes..........
     
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  2. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Basketball is notable for a couple of things: few players for a team sport, the ability of a single player to dominate, very, very physical yet has a place for skill and touch.

    The other thing about it is that it has an extremely robust college season and postseason, some would argue one of the best events in all of sports.

    So in evaluating whether to watch pros or college, it is: should I watch a bunch of emotional kids playing in front of their collegemates for little to nothing, or watch a bunch of dim adults playing for a team they signed with yesterday for multimillions just treading water until the lengthy postseason starts?

    Hhmmm...
     
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  3. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    The NBA is to basketball what the WWF (or is it WWE) is to wrestling. I haven't seen anything I'd call basketball played by the NBA for many a year.

    Maybe a better analogy with the NBA is bad Italian Opera. They are both just vehicles for virtuosity held together by really bad plots and storylines.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011
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  4. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    I wont miss it either. However I feel very sorry for the employees of the stadiums and the business that relied on the NBA for a income. I don't feel sorry for the selfish greedy players and owners.
     
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  5. thug the bunny

    thug the bunny Professional

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    Good call r.

    Some of the things I won't miss about the NBA:

    1. No defense
    2. Refs deciding the outcome of games (I believe that ex-ref who said referees make or don't make calls preferentially)
    3. Propogation of gangsta values and ethics
    4. Deflecting kids away from academics in the false hope of becoming a pro
     
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  6. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    This is just bull... plain and simple. What the f does that even mean? Stern's gone out of his way to make it an international sport, and cleaned it up by instituting the dress code and such. There's probably just as many football players getting in trouble as basketball, yet we don't hear about the 'gangsta' values from there.

    Last year's finals were great - and yes, they played defense. Though the refs almost ruined a few games...ultimately the better team won.

    Let me guess...you miss the days of Bird and McHale? I wonder why...
     
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  7. chollyred

    chollyred Rookie

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    Would suit me if NBA = No Basketball Anymore!

    A friend calls it "Thugball".
     
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  8. chollyred

    chollyred Rookie

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    Yeah, let's ask the same question about Michael Vick, Terrell Owens, and others...
     
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  9. thug the bunny

    thug the bunny Professional

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    So, what exactly needed 'cleaning up'?

    Just my perception, that's all.

    And yes, I agree that the NFL is becoming thugged out as well.
     
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  10. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I've never watched the NBA. I've just never liked the product.

    The NFL is a quarterback league. Now more than ever. I don't like to see the ball just hucked down the field 50-60 times a game and have the game decided by a pass interference or "touching" the QB call. But the game is clearly the most popular sport in America so they know their fan base well. I'm just not part of that fan base. I like what I grew up on. Old fashioned Big-10 grind it out style football. That ain't coming back. Neither am I.

    MLB turned into a "dinger" league. I'm glad it has moved away from that. I like the MLB again. I couldn't watch that trash since their strike in the mid-90's and what the game became after that.

    The NBA is like the other major sports. They need to fashion a product that appeals to the widest fan base. The NBA has never been more popular (I think). They certainly generate huge revenue and I see lots of kids (and grown men) wearing their hero's jersey. So the NBA has been doing something right. They know their fan base. You clearly like the product, while I don't. No big deal here. You'll watch and I won't. They can't appeal to everyone. They can only try to appeal to the greatest number so as to generate the highest revenue / profit, which I believe they do.

    Professional sports obviously have nothing to do with the sport. Its just a business like anything else. Nothing shocking here.
     
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  11. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Or Roethlisberger, who you conspicuously left out....:roll:

    After the Palace Brawl in 03 the league was at a low point from a PR standpoint. But things have gotten better and most of the stars now don't fit that 'thug' image at all. LeBron, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Howard, Duncan, Nash, etc.

    Of course there's still some arrests and such but the league shouldn't be judged as a whole by the lowest common denominator - the NFL isn't, by and large, so why is the NBA? It's a complex and fairly obvious answer, but one I really don't want to go into...
     
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  12. EndLy

    EndLy Rookie

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    I will.. basketball is far and beyond my favorite sport and the regular season matters more then the tennis season where all that matters now are the slams. I do agree that what's happening is just flat out sad and will most likely hurt the league in years to come, just like in 94 for baseball.
    some people rather watch college hoops but I was never a fan. never will be.
     
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  13. dParis

    dParis Hall of Fame

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    Are you impying there is a reason the Bird and McHale era of basketball wasn't entertaining?
    Who you conspicuously included. :roll::roll:

    Someone woke up on the wrong color - I mean wrong side of the bed this morning.
     
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  14. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I guess people throwing around words like 'thugball' to describe the NBA is supposed to be perfectly OK then...and saying a sport/league propagates 'gangsta' values...
     
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  15. CDestroyer

    CDestroyer Professional

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    Funny thing I heard that old knuckle head Charles Barkley commentating on Ron Artest, "There goes Artest playing that bully ball".

    I miss it.

    Baseballs a snoozefest.

    F Hockey.

    F Football.

    F Soccer.
     
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  16. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    What is the answer?

    They both seem like thug leagues to me
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Prima donnas within the sport can destroy any sport.
    Same with the internet, I guess...thank you.
     
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  18. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Do I really need to spell it out? The faces of the NFL are Manning, Brees, Brady, Favre (even though he's retired now). The faces of the NBA are LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Wade, Howard...you see the (non) similarity? That's why one's looked at as America's new pasttime and the other's looked at as it was so eloquently put in this thread, as 'thugball'. It's not rocket science. Still doesn't excuse the double standard of the perceptions between the two leagues.
     
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  19. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    Color me confused, but is something happening to the NBA that entails you missing it? Is it being decommissioned? Or is it just the end of a season or something?

    I know next to nothing about bball
     
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  20. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    ^^ yes, #1, you need to spell it out. The most prominent faces in American track and field in recent decades, be it Edwin Moses, Carl Lewis, Florence Griffith-Joyner and many others, have been black but far from having a gangsta image, they've enjoyed mass popularity and generally a great deal of respect for the dedication to their event. So the notion that negative attitudes toward the NBA are primarily racial doesn't stand scrutiny. And many of the best known faces in the NFL during its rise were the great running backs like Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Walter Payton, OJ Simpson -- all revered and respected (well, OJ's a problem here, but he was the squeaky clean image of the NFL when he was doing Hertz commercials).
     
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  21. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Who on earth thinks of any of those NBA players as thugs?

    Well like I said, I don't pay attention to the NBA much, but I in my limited exposure, I don't get that "thug" feeling from those guys.

    But, I still think both the NFL and NBA are "thug leagues" none the less. Probably because I mainly watch tennis, so by comparison, FIFA is probably a thug league.
     
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  22. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    OK well I'll give you that the NBA's reputation precedes itself to an extent - the gangsta image was harbored during the early 00s when Allen Iverson was one of the faces of the league. And the Brawl in the Palace in 03 was probably the low point of that.

    But like I said, Stern and the NBA have worked to change that image, stuff like the dress code was a small step to change that. And now many of the stars aren't 'thugs'. So that's why I take offense with those that still paint it in that manner. But I guess I understand why they would feel that way, but not recognize the work the league has done to clean itself up over the past decade. But, getting back on topic, the lockout will likely kill that work and put the players and owners both in a bad light, players moreso than the owners.

    I still think the NFL gets a comparatively better PR image, just look at how readily accepting people were after it's players/owners came to their senses this summer, it was almost as if ppl were willing to bend over and thank their football overlords for not witholding the NFL, lol.
     
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  23. j00dypoo

    j00dypoo Rookie

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    agreed agreed agreed. Well said. I miss the old school, hard-nosed grinding football. This is why I enjoy my local team, the Falcons. They establish that balanced attack and aren't afraid to throw 3 different backs up the middle.

    And yeah, the NBA certainly is at a height of popularity right now. I think my generation (i'm 26) has really taken to the current flashy style of play. I'm not surprised - the social media generations are all about narcissism and showing off.
     
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  24. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I apologize, I unfairly painted you in a bad way. I was more directing at the comments in this thread about it being 'thugball' and saying the league somehow propogates gangsta values and ethics.
     
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  25. CDestroyer

    CDestroyer Professional

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    Seriously? Maybe its because almost all of the players have jailhouse tats covering their exposed skin.

    Lets dont all be naive here.
     
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  26. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I meant the ones JB#1 specifically mentioned. Kobe? Wade? Lebron? You think those guys act like thugs? A bunch of pretty boys. It would be like saying Magic or Jordan were thugs.

    Like I said, I think there are plenty of thugs in both leagues. Which isn't all bad by the way. It sort of goes with the type of sport being played.

    Boxers have never minded being called thugs (well, probably because many of them truely were).
     
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  27. Gizo

    Gizo Hall of Fame

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    One of the problems with the NBA is that compared to the other major North American sports leagues, it has considerably less parity. Of course it is not totally predictable and does has its upsets, but it is much more difficult for a small market NBA team to be successful than a small market NFL, MLB or NHL team. It is much easier to predict which NBA teams will make the playoffs, miss out altogether or be in title contention.

    NBA attendances/tv ratings seem to be heavily related to the playoff presence and success of the bigger market teams.

    Also like the NHL it expanded too fast and has about 6 teams too many, diluting the talent pool. 24 teams would have been the perfect number, and places like New Orleans, Memphis, Minnesota etc really shouldn't have NBA teams.

    The NFL does have an inherent advantage over the other sports leagues in that it has so short a season in comparison. Absense makes the heart grow fonder, and people have more time to miss the NFL and to crave for the new season to start. With each team only playing 16 regular season games, every game in the NFL counts and is important. With 82 games in the NBA/NHL regular seasons, many games are meaningless and boring. Plus the NFL playoffs are single elimination do-or die, while the NBA playoffs seem to drag on forever.

    I like the NBA and hope that the lockout ends in the not too distant future, but despite it clearly being the highest quality basketball tournament by far, I've always enjoyed the NCAA and Euroleague tournaments more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
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  28. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Professional

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    Small market NBA teams have proven they can make it just fine. Look at the San Antonio Spurs, they have a been a very succesfull franchise and have won titles. The Pacers in the late 90's up to the brawl were very good also.

    The NBA is a star driven league way more than the other leagues. The role players are not as important. You probably have 40 guys in the NBA that matter. People that sell jerseys/tickets/ads.
     
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  29. Blade0324

    Blade0324 Hall of Fame

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    I definately see them all as thugs. The NBA is just crap and I for one would not miss it if it never came back.
     
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  30. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I used to love the major pro sports. (Well, not so much baseball. Blech.).

    But now, I have no use for any of them.

    The structure of a basketball game is, as OP says, kind of numbing. The last five minutes are exciting if the score is close, but that's it. I don't find the players even slightly interesting.

    Football is downright appalling. The players are tearing up their bodies and wrecking their brains, and then the league turns its back on them? Thanks, but no thanks.

    College athletics is horribly exploitative. Anyone read last month's article in Atlantic magazine?

    There's nothing worth watching but pro tennis, and I can't watch that anymore because of stupid Verizon and Tennis Channel.

    I guess I should just go read a book . . . .
     
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  31. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Let's not do anything that crazy.
     
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  32. Kevin T

    Kevin T Hall of Fame

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    It doesn't help when prominent talking heads/writers like Jason Whitlock, Bryant Gumbel and the players association bosses compare Stern and the owners to plantation masters. I was glad to see Magic and other vets defending Stern for all he did to bring the league back from the verge of bankruptcy in the '80's.

    I agree with others RE the currently playing style of the NBA. It's nowhere near as entertaining as the 80's and it's not a McHale/Bird/white/racial thing. It's a matter of playing style. The Lakers had that uptempo style with Magic, Big Game James, etc. The Celtics played a very skilled/fundamental (if not overly athletic) style. Portland played a nice uptempo style in the late 80's/early 90's. Today's isolation/one on one game is a snooze fest.
     
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  33. goober

    goober Legend

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    I am with you. As I get older I am watching less and less pro sports or sports in general. It is almost impossible for me to sit through an entire 3-4 hours of a sporting event that is on TV. I would rather do something else. Spectator sports is basically entertainment and I find other things more entertaining these days.
     
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  34. thug the bunny

    thug the bunny Professional

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    I'm kinda getting there too. I looked for tickets to Gmen at Philly recently and the cheapest I could find was $350 for a pair of SRO! Ridiculous ticket prices, ridiculous salaries, ridiculous profits. No only one not in on the $fest is the fan.

    But I find it hard to stay away from football especially when Big Blue is in the hunt. 'Hi, my name is thug and I have a problem...'
     
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  35. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I'm amazed that people are willing to pay these kind of prices. But look at the stands. They are always full. That tells me they could charge even more if they wanted too.

    I watched The Jazz "playoff run" a few years ago when they beat Houston in the first round and then got to play Golden State (the #8 seed) because they knocked off Dallas (the #1 seed). I managed to get "super nose bleed" tickets for something like $5 a ticket for the Houston series and I actually bought the second round tickets from a season ticket holder before the Jazz advanced for about the same money. There was no love for The Jazz that year so you couldn't give the damn things away.

    That was actually fun because as we kept winning, Jazz fever was sweeping the city, so it was "the place to be".
     
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  36. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    MLB has the least parity of the major US sports. A-rod makes more than the entire Pittsburgh Pirates roster put together (or pretty close).

    Sure, any team can win any given game, but the ones making the playoffs are "the usual suspects", often with 1 or 2 surprises (Brewers, Rays, Twins).
     
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  37. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Agreed, you can pretty much buy a championship in the MLB, even when teams develop talent like the Marlins and Rays have done in the past, they eventually get bought up by the high-spending teams thanks to the lack of a salary cap. That's part of why the NBA is in the situation it is now, small market teams losing money and feeling as if situations like the one last summer w/ Miami (stars all playing in the big cities) should be prevented. Owners wanted a hard salary cap during the CBA negotiations, and the players didn't.

    At least in the NBA you can have a guy like Durant playing in Seattle/OKC, Duncan/Parker/Ginobili, if you want to go back to the 90s w/ Reggie Miller spending his entire career in a place like Indiana...Both sports have their share of competitive disadvantage, but I'd argue it's easier in the NBA to make that up if you draft well.
     
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  38. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    Can someone answer this please? :)
     
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  39. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Someone is going to post LMGTFY
     
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  40. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    i did and saw something about contract negotiations or some lockout or whatever - but i've no context to understand this - can someone just explain it in a couple sentences for this lazy piggy? :)
     
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  41. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, yeah. I forgot about the ridiculous prices.

    It used to be that you could buy a decent ticket at a sane price. Now, corporations get all the good seats, or you have to go through a broker to get a ticket.

    If I wanted to go see Redskins v. Cowboys, the cheapest ticket in the upper level is $92 on Stubhub (come on, you'd get a better view from the blimp). If I wanted something I would consider worth the bother, it is $158 for lower level pinched in the corner.

    Then add in the cost to park and eat, and professional sports are crazy expensive.

    All of that to sit in an uncomfortable chair for hours, usually next to a pile of someone's peanut husks and abandoned beer.

    If that weren't bad enough, the owners are so greedy it is unbelievable. Here in Washington, the stadium was charging so much for parking that people were parking a huge distance away and walking to the stadium on the public sidewalks. The stadium literally closed the public sidewalk in an effort to force people to pay for parking. This was challenged in court, and of course the judge ruled that a private business cannot shut down a public sidewalk to extort parking fees.

    Thanks, no. I'm good. I'll pass on professional sports, with the exception of tennis, which is still reasonable.
     
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  42. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I'm pretty lost as well!

    So what actually happened? Is the NBA done for the rest of the year, or for good? I don't really follow basketball.... Thanks! :D

    -Fuji
     
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  43. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    A bunch of millionaires and billionaires can’t agree on how to share 4 billion dollars revenue annually to play a game and entertain people. The players feel deprived that they only earn 10 millions instead 11 a year; the owners want to make 550 millions a year, not 500. For that, they cancel the game ignoring their obligations to the game, the fans, the paying customers, and all the people whose jobs are depending on it.
    They do that, even in this economy, because they can, knowing that their loyal fans will come crawling back begging to pay top dollars to watch a bunch of oversized grown-ups throwing a ball into a basket over and over again.
    Not me, but I’m probably the only one.
     
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  44. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Basically the owners offered the players a 50-50 share of the revenues, and the players felt this was unfair since the previous agreement signed in '99 was 57-43 in favor of the players. Owners said that kind of split isn't sustainable for them to make profit since as I mentioned they feel they aren't making enough profit currently. The owners gave in on a lot of minor details and gave the players a 50-50 split ultimatum this week, and the players turned it down. Now the owners aren't willing to give anything more than 53-47 share in the owners' favor, and the players are suing the owners for not negotiating fairly.

    The owners are losing money, this isn't the NFL where the owners were arguing over how much of the pie to share. Here the owners are just trying to get some of the pie, since the players took all of the leverage during the last lockout in 99. Part of it is stupid owners giving scrubs more money than they are worth, essentially the owners have to be saved from their own stupidity of overpaying players.

    @maleyoyo - I think you're underestimating how much of a hit NBA could take from this. The NBA isn't the NFL. People don't live and die with the NBA and most people right now probably don't even miss it. So in that regard they are killing alot of the momentum they built after the drama of last season.

    Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller explain it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_OqzmTCtIQ
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
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  45. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    thanks for the insights - sounds like there's a pathological amount of greed at play (although isn't all greed pathological).
     
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  46. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    I Won't Miss The NBA

    What's happening with the NBA??
     
    #46
  47. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    ^^ closed for the Thanksgiving break.
     
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  48. Disgruntled Worker

    Disgruntled Worker Semi-Pro

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    I think people who are more likely to miss the NBA are people that actually have played at a respectable level of competition. Hence, the sentiment of the original poster is not surprising. He can't play!
     
    #48
  49. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    ^^ have you seen me play basketball? Where was this?
     
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  50. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

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    Paul pierce is poison
     
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