Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Ramon, Nov 14, 2012.
You are right.
Just think how silly it sounds for you to explain away how something that does work,,
can't, lol. I was introduced to this product by my doctor, who had excellent
results with his patients and I have over 5yrs of experience using and sharing.
You remind me of guys who think they are experts on how the aircraft works,
and try explain why it won't do certain things....things that it WILL DO.
Really they are just explaining the limits to THEIR understanding of the systems.
You are right, I can't explain it in detail, just know for a fact that in many cases
it will work.
Better to be wrong in this case I guess...Listening to him, those I helped with TE,
would have continued to suffer for awhile longer than necessary
I had a doc recommend Ibuprofen for a wrist problem (800 mg 2x day). It took care of the problem (which had been lingering for months). I just hurt my other wrist, and was taking Ibuprofen for that (with success, I think), but after reading this thread I am reluctant to continue. I'm not sure whether that is smart or not. My wrist has gotten worst since I stopped.
My go to pain reliever has always been aspirin.
Not hawking anything...just sharing good tip and results. Easy to spot Garbage
when someone says something, "can't possibly happen" bla bla.
We don't know that much on the body yet...sorry : )
I'll give another personal example.
I caught my ring and degloved my finger, breaking it and it was only attached
by a thin strip of skin. Went to ER and it was successfully repaired, but with
lots of nerve damage. Fast forward over 5 yrs later and
it was still swollen to the extent people would notice and ask about it.
It had several numb areas. I figured that was the best it would be and feared it might
turn worse with age. That was when my doc recommended the Vitalzym for
another injury I had that had been slow to heal on my other hand.
I had strained a ligament on my rt hand swinging the racket with traditional strokes.
Each time it seemed better with rest, only to return as soon as I played
again. Doc said give the Vitalzym a try since he had seen good results with it.
Within a few days the rt hand felt great and at only 5 days rest I gave it a try
on court again with no problems. That hand continues to be problem free, but
I never even considered any effect related to the degloved finger injury from
5 yrs before till a week into taking the enzymes. That finger started to itch..alot.
I knew that itch felt familiar in some odd way, but couldn't place it right off.
About a day later I did remember it was that healing itch I used to feel as a
much younger boy, back when my body healed so fast.
I was thinking,,,why is that swollen finger itching like that? I was even concerned
it could be a bad turn for it. Then I began to notice some feeling in the numb areas,
and the swelling seemed less. Within about 2 weeks, the swelling was basically
unnoticeable and feeling had begun to return to all areas of the finger and range of
motion returned. So 2 serious 5+ yr old injuries healed up within a
couple of weeks of starting the enzymes. Very glad I didn't know they couldn't
Yeah, this thread is weird. The docs on it seem to be treating ibuprofen like a horrible risk.
Yet my two different OS and a sports podiatrist don't seem nearly so alarmed about Ibuprofen and have prescribed it. It seems like a fairly ordinary tool in their tool kit.
I guess my doctors are dummies.
My son was prescribed ibuprofen to be taken multiple times a day when he injured himself. Helped a lot in reducing inflammation.
This is a video of a naturopath endorsing Vitalzym. He says the coating prevents stomach acid from digesting the enzymes and they remain intact till they reach the intestines, where they get absorbed into the circulatory system.
Turmeric and ginger are good anti-inflammatory herbs and have been used for centuries.
Andrew Weil likes them:
I actually take those in supplement form on a daily basis. The advantage is that they are safe, and they provide other long-term benefits linked to anti-aging and general health.
However, don't expect them to give you the noticeable short-term benefits of NSAIDs. If you have an acute problem, those supplements won't help much.
^^ the value of taking certain nutrients in supplement form is coming into question. An abstract I read just last week described the results of a study showing that health benefits seen from eating oily (omega 3) fish were not seen in people who took the oil in the form of supplements. A review in JAMA recently suggested that more recent well controlled fish oil studies don't show the benefit thought to be seen in earlier poorly controlled studies. I mention this because turmeric is a substance ayurvedic practitioners tell me is only useful when cooked, so its value as an uncooked supplement pill is uncertain, much like lycopene.
I personally take a large dose of fish oil every day for a number of reasons. My blood work shows a marked decrease in ldl and increase in hdl since I started taking it. I do exercise religiously but I have been doing that since I was 15. I suppose it is possible that something other than the fish oil could have caused the improved cholesterol levels.
Those are good points. I wish I had time to read every article on nutrition, but obviously, that's not possible. I do know there are other studies on these kind of supplements that conflict what you are saying.
I always consider the source, too. As you mentioned already, and I totally agree, drug companies are driven by greed to the point that public safety is far less important than profits. The medical community is in bed with the drug companies as well. Research on supplements funded by drug companies or the medical community might as well be thrown out. It is in their best interest to discredit natural supplements so they can tell the public that medicine is the only real solution. They are also lobbying politicians to regulate supplements and give the drug companies control over them, which of course is motivated by profit. To achieve this goal, they want the public to think that supplements are dangerous or that medical expertise is necessary to make them effective.
It is a long term thing.
For emergency and short-term situations, it is always "modern medicine."
Historically, it was part of spice mixtures added to food during cooking.
I have never taken it as a supplement.
I do take fish oil supplements. What you seem to be saying is that it may soon be proven to be of no use.
From your other posts, it is apparent you use ibuprofen only occasionally, and are very reasonable in your dosing.
You have discussed this with your doctors and therapists.
The big concern is that there are many out there that use ibuprofen to play through tennis elbow, shoulder and knee pain.
Not only do they play rather than rest with these conditions, but they find they need ibuprofen on a daily basis just to make it through the day on their job and other activities.
Ibuprofen is a pretty good pain reliever and will allow them to continue to make their overuse injuries worse and worse.
There also is a fairly widespread belief that ibuprofen is not only controlling their pain, but reducing the inflammation that is the source of their pain.
So some will take ibuprofen every time they play or work out thinking they are preventing harmful inflammation.
And if they have some residual soreness, they will continue taking ibuprofen for the duration.
There just is no proof that ibuprofen meaningfully changes the course of inflammation after exercise. And if it did, it would probably take fairly high dosages, the type that can get people into trouble, to do so.
That was a fun read. Just wanted to see how the general population perceives ibuprofen. A few things were in accord with what I was taught. Most weren't. In particular, Charliefed's presentation were severely distorted, and it's quite obvious he has no medical training. Anywho, too many errors or misconceptions to correct. I'm not a Pharm lecturer, so I won't try to educate anyone on pharmacology.
The danger of addiction to acetominophen or ibuprofen is real. They relax the muscles, produce a good feeling, and induce a good night's sleep. It is quite easy to convince yourself that they are "needed" after every tennis session.
Someone finally mentioned the "A" word.
No, there is no addiction to either acetaminophen or ibuprofen. No clear pharmacologic tolerance, no withdrawl syndrome (a "rebound" when someone stops a drug is NOT a withdrawl syndrome. You can have rebound with BP meds, for example, but they are not abused). Stories about addiction to these drugs are anecdotal and mythical. That one might use a medicine compulsively does not constitute an addiction.
I am sure there are those who compulsively use ibuprofen.
I would be interested in just a few of the many errors or misconceptions you seem that I have given.
I would like to educate you. And you educate me.
I am a physician.
It had to be mentioned. I caught by wife taking Tylenol a few days in a row while complaining about mild back pain. We ended up having a big fight. I myself have a weekly habit. On Fridays, I play after work and come back really tired with the week's burden. I take 2 Tylenols and 2 Ibuprofens (together) before going to bed, and end up sleeping till 10 or 11 am on Saturday. It has become a routine and it relaxes me a whole deal. I know the mixing is bad, but it is only 2 + 2 OTC caps.
When I had back pain and took Doan's or its equivalent (magnesium salicylate), I liked to "extend" it for a day or two. It feels good.
I've never tried Vitalzym but I can confirm that taking enzymes is a very effective way of reducing inflammation and the stiffness associated with it. I'm almost 50 and I play tennis every day sometimes twice a day and taking the enzymes makes a dramatic difference. The more I play the more I take, they are safe and contribute to healing and have other benefits as well, such as improved cardiovascular heath. The one I take is called Wobenzym N and it's been around for a long time and is well studied. It can't hurt to check it out.
I took some ibuprofen yesterday for aches associated with a cold. Man it works well. I'd rather play with pain so I don't push my body too far and save the ibuprofen for pain when I really need it.
This is only based on personal experience, but Ibuprofen does seem to work better for me than Acetaminophen (Tylenol) for tennis related inflammation. I tried using Tylenol last night in a match against a good player where I needed to serve big. It lasted me through the match, but today I can tell that the effects don't last as long as Ibuprofen. However, it does make me wonder if I actually heal better with a pain reliever that doesn't continue to keep working, which theoretically inhibits the healing process.
If I could take ibuprofen every day for the rest of my life, I would.
Getting old hurts.
Ibuprofen is the fountain of youth. Someone should have told Ponce de Leon.
am I correct in thinking paracetamol is not 'over-the-counter' in the states?
or is it chemically similar to Tylenol?
I know I could google it, but I was wondering what the forum thought?
'The truth? I can't handle the truth!'
i thought if you ate too much medicine, like this stuff, it damages your organs. like liver, etc.
has anyone heard about that?
We pretty much discussed this topic to death in the first few pages of this thread.
Tylenol is acetominophen.
Paracetamol (one of the brand names is Crocin) is popular outside the US.
Nurofen/Keral, other NSAIDS
Prior to and after having SAD surgery for my shoulder, I was constantly taking Nurofen, and then my GP prescribed another NSAID called Keral. I really do not know if this is at all connected, and maybe I am making a random connection but here is the story. Last summer (and I live in Ireland) I experienced the worst hay fever I had ever had. When my shoulder was better and I was allowed to take up running again I had a couple horrendous experiences of being completely out of breath, struggling to get in air, and not because I was out of shape. It even started to happen when I was playing singles, or in doubles, under pressure. I went back to GP and he said it was exercise induced asthma. He prescribed salbuterol in an inhaler to take just before exercise. Strangely enough, I took out the notes to the "Keral" (dexketoprofin) and it immediately said it was contraindicated in those who had hay fever or asthma. I haven't taken any sort of NSAID for months now, yet I haven't tried exercising without using the inhaler first, as I am wary of getting that suffocated feeling again. I am just wondering if there is a strong link between asthma and NSAIDS as I never ever had that happen before. Maybe its just the horrible climate where I am living!!!
A small percentage of people with asthma are sensitive to aspirin and NSAIDS. It exacerbates their symptoms.
In my humble opinion, for most people. the benefits of ibuprofen still far outweigh the risks.
ye, 'Panadol' is very popular here (Australia), almost never see Tylenol.
I have been putting turmeric (haldi) powder mixed with a few other spices into capsules for several years now. In the past couple of years I have started to "cook" the powder a bit before encapsulating. I add some black pepper to, hopefully, improve the bioavailablity of the turmeric. Turmeric accounts for about 1/2 of my mix -- I also include ginger (root), tulsi (holy basil), and rosemary.
To further improve the bioavailability of the turmeric capsules, I take it with lecithin and some other fats (such as olive oil, coconut oil, high-oleic safflower oil or canola oil). I usually wash it down with green tea. Supposedly green tea with turmeric has a synergistic effect.
I also add turmeric to my cooking.
I have come across some conflicting reports about lycopene. It has generally accepted that we get more from cooked tomatoes than from raw. However, a WebMD page indicates that, "The lycopene in supplements is about as easy for the body to use as lycopene found in food.".
I also came across a study from 2002 titled, "Synthetic and tomato-based lycopene have identical bioavailability in humans".
^^ "bioavailability" refers to how efficiently it is absorbed from the GI tract. It isn't a reflection of how the body utilizes it.
While bioavailablity is related to to absorption, it is not quite that simple. The term, bioavailablity, is defined/used somewhat differently in the nutritional sciences than it is for pharmacology. For pharmacology, bioavailablity refers to the degree of activity or amount of an administered drug that becomes available for activity in the target tissue. For nutrients, including nutritional supplements, the concept of bioavailablity appears to be less clearly defined.
ibuprofen + exercise = intestinal leakage?
^^ I've said before in this forum that taking ibuprofen before exercise is a risk to your health, my primary concern being that both the exercise and the ibuprofen tend to raise blood pressure, so the combination could raise it to levels that can be harmful. These authors present another risk, intestinal leakage. A third is stomach ulceration and hemorrhage. All in all, it's just dumb to use ibuprofen while you exert yourself.
In the NYtimes article, there was mention of taking 400mg of Ibuprofen at night. Assuming the subject goes to sleep soon afterwards, will it have any deleterious effect on the intestine or other organs? Also, will it have any effect on exercise performed the next day? Seems pretty useless to me... unless I'm missing something here.
That finding refers to endurance athletes who were continuously bicycling for an hour. It is unclear that it would apply to recreational tennis which is more anaerobic, where the heart rate has a chance to rest every ten minutes or so, and where the large uppper leg muscles are much less stressed. In most tennis matches players aren't huffing and puffing like they would in bicycling or endurance running. In other words there is more opportunity for blood flow to reach the intestines when playing tennis than when performing pure endurance exercise, so intestinal leakage might be minimal. I doubt that recreational doubles players would experience it at all. It would be useful to test tennis players to see.
Will aspirin, naproxen or other NSAIDs prior to exercise have similar side effects or lesser effects that IB?
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