Ice Baths

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by ga tennis, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Does anybody else use ice baths after training? We have started having my daughter take ice baths after training at night. Im getting the water at 40 degrees.At first she couldnt take it but now she can handle it. Does anyone know how long she needs to sit in the bath? Right now she sits in the bath about 5 or 6 minutes. She says she feels alot more refreshed the next day with no soreness.
     
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  2. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Gotta love dads who subject their children to uncomfortable "training methods" when they have no idea how to do it or how long to do it.
     
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  3. ga tennis

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    Thanks!! She likes it.
     
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  4. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    under 12 thats good amount as they get older increase but not by much , we spend 12 -15 minutes total .
     
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  5. TCF

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  6. chalkflewup

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    My kid loves them too. Great for recovery.
     
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  7. ga tennis

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    Thanks TCF. We arent over training she trains only 2 hours a day. The first hour we usually work on the ball machine using my i pad with my coaches eye app.She will hit around 20 balls then we sit on the bench and we talk about what shes doing technique wise.The second hour we are doing directionals,serves,volleys, and returns.That has been what we have been doing the last couple of weeks since weve changed her forehand. I just figured the ice baths would help her recover.
     
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  8. TCF

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  9. maggmaster

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  10. TCF

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    [Q================================================
     
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  11. ga tennis

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  12. maggmaster

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    I have been using this blogs active recovery and mobility work for about a year now. I have been involved in competetive sports up to the collegiate level my whole life and havd trained baasically non stop since about 12. I have never recovered from injury as fast as I do with the reccomendations from this site, it is amazing.
     
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  13. TCF

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  14. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I have not read the article yet but I agree with you without reading on IBP , with my neck TCF I have had to take all sorts of stuff and after a couple of weeks on IBP my stomck is way upset from it .

    BTW back under the knife Oct for another level to be fused .
     
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  15. BMC9670

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    The first time I was exposed to ice baths was track and field training in college. Worked wonders after training quarter mile intervals and hitting the weight circuit. I use the cold plunge method now for "middle age man" stuff - aching achilles, sore knees, etc.

    The only thing I would watch with kids is the heart rate. Rapid changes in temp with little body weight/mass can make the hear rate do wacky things.
     
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  16. barringer97

    barringer97 Rookie

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    We are doing ice baths at what age here?

    Do someone say 10? That sounds crazy.
     
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  17. SoBad

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    I think it is better to take warm baths and eat/drink the ice/water.
     
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  18. TCF

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  19. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    This is very true. I have a friend that is a pharmaceutical sales rep. He tells me the same thing. Bladder will get jacked up over time if you take too much over a period of time.
     
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  20. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    oh and ice baths for a kids is mean.....

    i tried it myself after long match and it feels like ur getting stabbed by a knife.... just saying..
     
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  21. gavna

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    Funny how here in the states it's pretty much accepted from High Schools up to the pro sports level the benefits of Ice Baths - my daughter playing at the D1 level now back east told me its regular follow up to long workouts to get in and do 10 to 15min.

    Cryotherapy ("cold therapy") constricts blood vessels and decreases metabolic activity, which reduces swelling and tissue breakdown. Once the skin is no longer in contact with the cold source, the underlying tissues warm up, causing a return of faster blood flow, which helps return the byproducts of cellular breakdown to the lymph system for efficient recycling by the body. Ice baths don't only suppress inflammation, but help to flush harmful metabolic debris out of your muscles -

    I also understand the water temp should be in the 50 to 59F - does not need to be colder than that.
     
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  22. TCF

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  23. ga tennis

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    If it is purely placebo then why do the majority of professional athletes do it?
     
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  24. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    We don't do ice baths, so I can't weigh in except to note on just an outside view that 40 degrees seems on the cold side.

    I do appreciate you bringing up training issues/apps/chiropractors here on this board that can be debated back and forth, pros and cons.

    Thanks.
     
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  25. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Being a pro doesn't mean you know a lot more about working out and recovery than other guys. A lot of pro athletes have training regiments and supplement schedules that would make a knowledgeable layman facepalm.

    These guys aren't pros because they're so much better at eating and hitting the gym.
     
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  26. floridatennisdude

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    I'd like to see charliefederer's take on this. I'm posting in the health and fitness section to see what research he has on this.
     
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  27. TCF

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  28. drgchen

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    I'd be careful with ibuprofen or other NSAIDS used prophylactically in children.

    Kids generally recover more rapidly than adults, they may not feel sore after two hours a day of training. I remember in high school when the season was going some of us trained and played more than 4 hours a day 5 days a week. Other than an occassional sore shoulder, not much pain. We used to do pretty high intensity stuff sometimes running stairs or laps for at least an hour before getting on the courts.

    I read about the Bryan Brothers doing ice bath rituals. I'm not sure if it works. In theory it should, but in practice I'm not sure if the research is there. Mentally it may help you keep going.

    I agree with the above post that just because pros do it, it doesn't mean that it works. Pros are likely more fit than us mortals on the talk channel. But that doesn't make them or their trainers smarter. Monkey see, monkey do.
     
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  29. TCF

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  30. floridatennisdude

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  31. Govnor

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    Seems like overkill for a 10 year old. I'll admit I don't know much about it though. Other than adult pro athletes take them.
     
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  32. ga tennis

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  33. barringer97

    barringer97 Rookie

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    I'm pretty sure my wife would divorce me if I recommended that our daughter take an ice bath...
     
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  34. ga tennis

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    It was my daughters idea. After watching tennisography on M.Oudin and watching her take ice baths she wanted to start. Primal cues are critical to reaching the goal.
     
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  35. floridatennisdude

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    Interesting point in the thread I posted and Charlie's reply...icing in general doesn't penetrate to a joint where the inflammation might be starting from. Icing 15 mins 4x per day is only an hour of a 24 hr day. The other 23 hours the body is acting as it will normally. Thus, icing for pain relief might make sense. Just doesn't make sense as an actual anti-inflammatory mechanism.
     
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  36. BMC9670

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    There is more than one reason for ice/cold. Anti-inflammatory/pain relief is most common on a specific area - a knee, an elbow, etc. Ice baths for recovery are to accelerate the dissipation of lactic acid in the muscles. This helps with soreness/fatigue. Very common with runners/endurance athletes.
     
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  37. Woolybugger

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    I don't think ice baths are effective at all. To get a real edge over everyone else, I suggest you ask Lance Armstrong.
     
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  38. floridatennisdude

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    I have no experience with endurance sports. That seems like a logical point. I prefer a massage to sitting in a tub of ice for tennis recovery.
     
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  39. BMC9670

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    Massage works, too, but ice is cheap!:)
     
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  40. floridatennisdude

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    All it costs me is rubbing my wife's shoulders in return. However, marriage in general is no bargain. So, touché

    But, I see your point for a junior. However, I did do a brief google search on ice baths and lactic acid. From my three google searches it seems that medical professionals don't get any scientific results on lactic acid dissipitation from an ice bath. In general, athletes say they "feel better" but there aren't any measurable differences in chemicals within their body.

    Doctors don't find any correlation between delayed onset muscle soreness. Lactic acid build up in endurance athletes can remain in muscles, but for most it is dissipated naturally within a couple hours.
     
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  41. TCF

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  42. TCF

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  43. BMC9670

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    It may certainly be that it makes athletes just feel better, and that's OK if there is no down side, such as with ibuprofen or NSAIDS, etc. I've certainly experienced feeling better. That said, I still wouldn't recommend it for junior.
     
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