Ideal Body Fat % for tournament players.

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by J011yroger, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Yeah, Baskin Robbins would be considered bulking "dirty", but I'm talking about drinking a gallon of milk a day. That's not a dirty bulk. You'll only get fat if you're not doing heavy compound weight training. Otherwise, you'll gain mostly muscle, and some fat.

    This is how people bulk up. There is no other way. Even bodybuilders who care about six packs eat like pigs during their bulking season. Their six packs disappear, they get a little chunky, but then they cut down and get their six pack again, except this time their muscles are even bigger.

    Obviously, there is a more scientific approach, and you can make your bulk super clean, but for a young kid who has no clue about nutrition science, the gallon of milk approach is the way to go.
     
  2. backhand

    backhand Rookie

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    JollyRodger, I've been asking you questions on another thread, now maybe I can answer yours here. I do research in human body composition and physique. Some thoughts:

    1) There is no ideal lower threshold, but generally 5 to 8% for elite male athletes is considered as low as you can get without physiological problems related to starvation. (That's about 9 to 14 lbs of fat for a 180 lb athlete.) Consider that most of that, 3-4% of your body fat, is used to cushion your heart, fill most of your marrow, and keep your kidneys in place. Literally. The wildly lower estimates (3-4% total) you hear about once in a while for NFL players or bodybuilders are wishful errors, based on applying formulas derived from a different population. (It is even possible to use these formulas, which drive the software behind some popular methods, to produce a negative %fat.)

    2) You cannot lose bodyfat without losing muscle as well. There's a half century of good data to back this up. Even bodybuilders, who seem to believe otherwise, typically bulk up to 50 or 80 lbs over their competition weight, then lose a lot of fat and some muscle, still end up of course hypermuscled (but not very fit in any sense that would be meaningful to a tennis player, since they're starving). The best possible outcome is suggested by a study of elite soccer players, who shed over 5% bodyfat while losing less than 1% lean.

    3) Aerobic athletes, including elite tennis players, may actually require a bit of usable body fat to metabolize during extended matches when available glycogen may be used up and oral glucose cannot be absorbed fast enough, regardless of what the sports drinks claim.

    4) In a biomechanical sense, the penalty of a extra 1 or 2% bodyfat is outweighed by factors related to swing and foot mechanics, such as shock and torsion. (Unless you have a literally perfect set of joints and a perfect set of muscles to move across them, and you swing and move in a literally perfect manner.) Obviously, there's no point in dragging around an extra 10 lbs of fat, but worrying over 1 or 2 is the same mentality that produces bulimic anorexics. (And don't think that purging cannot involve exercise or only is a risk for females.)

    5) Each of us has a different heritable range and distribution of body fat. If your range bottoms at 9%, you will find it very difficult to get to 8% because your body will resist further loss. If your range bottoms at 6%, 8% will be straightforward. Some of us will have guts at very low %, others no. So as TW says, YMMV.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2008
  3. TopShelf

    TopShelf Rookie

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    For all the posts here I would guess nearly 3/4's of them are about at least 4% too low on their estimate. And the ones who are mostly accurate are the ones still holding onto that 15-18 year old metabolism =)

    For example (on average), you need less then 12% to be able to see your main vein running down the front of your bicep. And I don't mean during a workout when they protrude out, but rather if your standing in the mirror and have your arms at your waist side.

    For every "supreme" athlete there is an "mega obese" person. In other words if your at your local gym you will see probably see as many "under 9%" as you will 300 pounders in a typical day. but yet this thread is making it sound like its "no biggy" =)
     
  4. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Someone in this thread quoted their bfat to 2 d.p. Ludicrous. (more ludicrous that I think it started with a 2, but let's not go there). There is only 1 type of person who can ever hope to have bfat even vaguely accurate to 2 d.p., and it's the sort that is in a morgue, awaiting a funeral.

    That same person is the type of person who says "I'd by the Ferrari over the Lamborghini ...because it has 3 more horsepower" :(.

    That said, Jo11y you're not helping things here by posting your bodyfat based on 'feel'. In some posts you've trashed bfat scales, and yet you're posting your % based on what you feel it is. Scales may not give the right number, they will show consistency & patterns if used correctly. I wish people wouldn't trash them so easily, as they are something that can help the average joe, if s/he uses them correctly.

    Most need to remember there are two halves to measurement: consistency and accuracy. In cases where a 'pattern' matters more than an absolute, consistency is in many ways more relevant than accuracy.

    Nice post by 'backhand' above btw.
     
  5. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Well I know in baseball before the roids, the ideal BF % was between 8-12 %. mainly do to the daily grind of the 162 game regular season. typical game day for a baseball player is over 6 hours on the filed maybe more in the batting tunnel and whatever else. NFL players could generally get away with less BF% becasue they play once a week for at most Half of a 60 minute game.

    They said the Higher BF% for a baseball player helped to metabolize fat during the actual competition (Backhand post above comment #3).

    I would say a tennis player would fall into the Baseball player (pre roids) mold at want to shoot for around 10%
     
  6. TopShelf

    TopShelf Rookie

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    The opposite could be said though because a typical baseball player is less "active" as a football player, hence they can carry that extra bodyfat.

    I would put a tennis player in more of a "football player" mode. As those 60 minutes is just a tip of what a NFLer does
     
  7. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Well I take regular measurements, as I think it is a better indicator of progress than those BF scales.

    J
     
  8. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    ^^I don't know what you mean by regular measurements if you're not using calipers, scales or water-weight, unless of course you're meaning that you take regular measurements that are NOT bfat measurements - ie. circumferences and weight.

     
  9. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Correct, non BF% just normal measurements. Just using tailor tape, and scale.

    J
     
  10. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Let me 'weigh in' for the old guys: 6'2" 181# 11% body fat. ;) CC
     
  11. Purostaff

    Purostaff Banned

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    12% is ideal imo..
     
  12. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    Not sure about the % bodyfat that is ideal. If your looking for a good plan to eat which should take you to your ideal bodyfat %, get the books body for life and eating for life by bill phillips. They are excellent. If you only get one, get the eating for life book. It shows you how you can eat very well and do it in a practical manner. Essentially it's 6 small meals of a portion or protein and a portion of carbs. 3 meals eat some vegetables as well. You can cater this to what you want to achieve. For instance if your body building and need some extra carbs on the first 3 meas you can double your portion of carbs. This diet is amazing for me. Eat well/more than I did before and lose fat.
     
  13. kobe3pointer

    kobe3pointer Semi-Pro

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  14. cncretecwbo

    cncretecwbo Semi-Pro

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    low bodyweights throw off the testing, especially something as innacurate as that.

    you have very little muscle, so having that low body fat might not be the most impressive thing. try to do that at 185lbs and you be getting somewhere
     
  15. kobe3pointer

    kobe3pointer Semi-Pro

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    lmao, im ripped... you should see my legs and my biceps/triceps...

    im 5'8 btw, was 135 last year... all muscle added on
     
  16. cncretecwbo

    cncretecwbo Semi-Pro

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    6 foot and 150 is far from ripped, you are a twig
     
  17. kobe3pointer

    kobe3pointer Semi-Pro

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    lmao, im not 6ft.. im 5'8 155 lbs... of pure muscle..
     
  18. TopShelf

    TopShelf Rookie

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    Sure you can be all muscle, but that muscle is not exactly "large amounts". At 5 foot 8 and 155 you havn't exactly left much room for 21 inch biceps
     
  19. cncretecwbo

    cncretecwbo Semi-Pro

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    shoot im 6 foot and hoping to be 180 soon and im not that strong, and yes i can see my abs
     
  20. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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  21. SalvadorVeiga

    SalvadorVeiga Rookie

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    I'm sorry if this was corrected or someone corrected this statement but I had to answer... you have no ideia what 4-6% is if you're assuming that...

    A bodybuilder in COMPETETIONS usually are in the 3-5%. Do you see anyone else looking like that?

    The minimum body fat for survival matters for MALES is 3%. For a person to have 3% body fat they can only sustain it for about brief hours. For bodybuilders to present 3 or 4% in competitions they plan 2 to 3 months ahead with really strict diets, and calories counted up to the unit...

    The average % fat for PROFESSIONAL tennis players sits in the 11-15% range...

    I'll try to post a table after form a boook

    EDIT:

    [​IMG]

    Also if you don't look like this:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You're nowhere near 6%, Cristiano Ronaldo is in the range of 9-10%. Probably in the low side of the range
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008

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