FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
In my opinion, that was the best match of 2011. It had the drama, the run-up, the darkness, and the high level of tennis was maintained throughout all four sets.
Truly an unforgettable match!
If Djoker wins Golden CYGS = GOAT?
- Thread starter DjokovicForTheWin
- Start date
In my opinion, that was the best match of 2011. It had the drama, the run-up, the darkness, and the high level of tennis was maintained throughout all four sets.
Truly an unforgettable match!
Uh, sorry, but Nadal will never tank a slam final. Especially on clay
You mean if Djokovic reaches the final first, Nadal will tank his semi-final?
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
I didn't say he'd tank the slam final
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
That and the USO Fed-Djoker semi were the best and highest quality matches of 2011. Anything with Nadal and Djoker you already knew was going to be massacre
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Perhaps not explicitly but in a manner similar to what happened to Fed at USO 2010 where he started thinking about Nadal in the final.
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
For me, their USO match is second only because the level of tennis wasn't maintained for the entire match. They both went through peaks and valleys. Though, I like how they both saved their best for the final set, which was wildly entertaining and immensely suspenseful.
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I don't think he'd "tank" a semi, just because he loves to win. I think he sort-of welcomes the matches with Djokovic because he so badly wants to beat him. I'm sure Nadal is waiting for another crack at Nole.
Fed didn't tank. I mean, the same thing happened the very next year and Nadal wasn't even in the finals yet. But anyway, I doubt Nadal would be thinking about future opponents in future rounds; he's always in the moment.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I agree that Nadal probably would have won, because Nadal just always wins against Federer. But then at the moment Novak always seems to win against Nadal, so logical to assume he would win RG last year if they met and if things stay the same, this year should they meet. Especially if like last year Novak has 2 wins on clay leading into it.
Federer beat Djokovic at the US Open in 2007, 2008 and 2009 and in 2010 and 2011 had match points in both matches. This is a guy who certainly in the last couple of years has dipped below his best form, yet still has got match points on Djokovic in a slam twice (I don't think anyone else has managed this) so he must be a harder match up than others even if he still lost. In 2010 he won about 4 other HC matches, his concentration in 5 sets was the big issue.
I think at the AO Djokovic-Nadal is much closer than Federer-Djokovic, but not at the US Open obviously. But bare in mind we are talking about two guys less than a year apart in the case of Nadal-Djokovic, where as Federer is going to be 31 this year,has played 1001 matches, won 16 slams, played loads more.... Nadal-Djokovic SHOULD be more competitive, and it's only in this last one of the last 7 that it's looked like turning that way. Maybe because of the slowness of the court. Until thislast final there was no contest who had pushed him more. There is no shame in this, so I don't know why you want to deny it so much, Nadal is the number 2 by a mile, but in general Federer has been a harder task for Novak than Rafa has, it's game styles.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
In 2010 Fed admitted he started thinking about the final against Nadal, that's why the 4th set finished so quickly. 2011 was actually quite different from 2010.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Nadal would be a despicable character if he was the type to tank a slam semi. That will never happen. And he will beat Djoko again, I have no doubt. It's not a matter of "if" but of "when".
Djoko is very lucky to have won the AO final and could hardly walk afterwards. That's how close Rafa was. It won't always go Djoko's way.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
It's quite idiotic to say you have no doubt that Nadal will beat Djoker again.
That's the point isn't it? Djoker could barely walk from the beginning of the match and Nadal still got taken out. Wait till djoker can walk again, Nadal won't even win a set anymore. You don't know it won't always go Djoker's way.
2010 & 2011: Djokovic won both 4th sets 6-2. They weren't that different. Federer may have been thinking about Nadal but Novak was going to win that set regardless of what Fed was thinking about. As we've come to see, Djoker plays well from behind.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
I think in 2010 when Fed had match point it was on Djoker's serve. In 2011 he had 2 match points on his serve. Immensely different scenario.
Yeah the scenario was different but Djokovic played the points identically. The matches unfolded in similar fashions: Djokovic down match points and goes into reckless abandon mode.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Identically??? Djoker did not take a crazy slap at the ball as hard as he could in 2010. In 2010 he hit a proper winner that just landed in, but it was not a crazy wishful slap on a serve return, it was in the middle of rally.
In 2010, they exchanged sets in the beginning. In 2011, Fed won the first two sets, again a very different scenario.
The only similarities in those matches is that they went to 5 sets and Fed held match points. Otherwise quite different in most regards. Don't forget in 2010, Djoker was not yet 2.0 either.
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
Yeah, but you have to admit that what he did was incredibly courageous. Most players just give up at that point. At least he realized that he either goes all out or simply goes out. As a Federer fan, I have no shame in admitting that.
Of course Djokovic didn't make a crazy slap shot.....he was serving. The point was that he attacked the ball both in 2010 and 2011 and went for his shots.
This is a very insignificant difference. Djokovic dominated the sets that he won before the 5th. The order in which they were won is irrelevant. Djokovic was playing from behind in both scenarios. 2010, playing down 2 sets to 1 and in 2011, playing down 2 sets to none.
Absolutely. That's what I meant; courageous "reckless abandonment"
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I agree Nadal will beat him again, but Novak wasn't "lucky" to win the AO. He had more winners, less unforced errors and 20 break points to Nadal's 6. If Nadal had won, he'd have been the lucky one. Great fight by Nadal but the right man won (much like W2008 )
Another point is a close match like Rome 2006 didn't do anything for Federer in getting closer to Nadal, so it doesn't have to follow that Nadal is getting closer to Djokovic, though I do think that he will take more positives than Federer did.
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cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
But by the same token you are saying that you believe Djokovic will always beat Nadal in every single future encounter, what is the difference?
The truth is we really don't know what is going to happen in their future matches. I tend to agree that I think Nadal will beat Djokovic again. He was so close at the AO and he is only 25.
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
Hahahaha don't worry about it.
CYGS - Calendar-Year Grand Slam (all 4 slams in a single year)
Golden CYGS - Golden Calendar-Year Grand Slam (all 4 slams + Singles Olympic Gold in a single year)
Welcome!
yes, djoker discussed this forehand with his previous coach on video. he SAID THE FOREHAND WAS PRACTICED for 2 DECADES LIKE THAT ONE HE HIT versus federer last year. ignorant fed fans don't want to hear this.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
I'm just saying it to be dramatic, she's saying it because she actually believe it. Big difference.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
You better hope Nadal wins the FO because if he loses the FO to Djokovic that will be the biggest slaughter in men's tennis history what with all of the other losses Nadal has incurred at the hands of Djokovic in the past year.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Of course Djokovic didn't make a crazy slap shot.....he was serving. The point was that he attacked the ball both in 2010 and 2011 and went for his shots.
This is a very insignificant difference. Djokovic dominated the sets that he won before the 5th. The order in which they were won is irrelevant. Djokovic was playing from behind in both scenarios. 2010, playing down 2 sets to 1 and in 2011, playing down 2 sets to none.
Absolutely. That's what I meant; courageous "reckless abandonment"
Disagree, winning sets 2 by 2 is vastly different. First for the guy who could have closed it out and second for the guy who came back. That's the point, Djoker was serving in 2010. That is the single biggest difference which makes the scenarios essentially completely different. Federer could have served at least ONE ace in those 2 match points like he did FO. But couldn't. In 2010 he had no chance to do this. Big difference.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
LOL, yeah right. I bet he said it after Fed's comments about it. Just a reaction remark.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
That's a fair point. Federer DID win matches vs Rafa after the Rome final though. I'm not claiming Rafa will ever dominate Novak again but I would be surprised if he he didn't win a single match against him in the future. In a way, it's a good thing, this situation, because it keeps Rafa very motivated. I don't think he'll want to retire until he wins a match vs Novak!! And making so much effort to challenge Novak keeps him at a very high level, extremely competitive vs anyone else.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Final Djoker Nadal H2H: 26-16 in favour of Djoker.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Given their ages, the idea that Nadal will never beat Djokovic again, is flat out ridiculous. Even Roddick has managed to beat Federer after losing a whole load of matches. So yes you can pretty much bet nadalwill win again. The only question is when and where, is it soon or not and is it in a slam or lower event? I don't really have a clue, but I feel nadal can get a win before RG. At this point though Ndaal will be hugely motivated by any win, Djokovic will probably put most effort into slam meetings.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think she really truly believes it. She has no clue whether or not it will happen just like the rest of us. If Nadal does lose to Djokovic in the FO this year it will be a massacre never before seen in men's tennis. 4th consecutive slam loss on a surface everybody knows Nadal has been king on. It will really be bad for Nadal.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I hope so, even though I doubt it will be on hard court but you never know. All it would take is a bad day for Novak and he's bound to have a few, especially ouside of slams.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
you think they will only play 12 more matches and Novak will win them all?
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
It's not impossible is it? I think people were fooled by AO and Djoker's level. If anyone watched the match carefully, they will see that Djoker went deep into Rafa's service games about 90% of the time. Nadal simply stayed in the match because Djoker was dead tired. Everyone know it could have easily ended in 4 and hell even the one set Nadal won before the 4th it was an eked out TB.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Who cares about anything other than a slam? Slam wins are all that matter. The others are nice but don't mean much in the grand scheme of things for the top 4. Djokovic could purposely not play well in Rome for example in order to conserve energy for the FO and then go on to win the FO.
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
It's not impossible. Improbable, maybe. As of right now, yes, it doesn't seem like Nadal can win against Djokovic. There were times in their AO final where I definitely thought Nadal was going to win. That Djokovic came back and won shows the vast confidence he has when playing against Nadal. And I have to agree with those that say that of all 7 of their matches, Novak looked his most vulnerable last week.
I agree with Veroniquem that Nole can have a bad day. But, Djokovic has had bad days. In fact, he had quite a few last year. He either lost or overcame them. None of those days, however, were on Final Sunday.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Possible but not probable. Fed managed 11 wins in a row against Roddick and 15 against Hewitt. Novak would have to pull off 19 wins in a row...
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
I don't think this is entirely true. Djokovic gained confidence playing against Nadal through their Masters matches. To Djokovic, Indian Wells and, especially, Miami, was crucial for his 2011.
You're making too big of a deal about small details. The matches don't have to be mirror images of each other to be incredibly similar. Almost all of Federer's losses to Nadal have come in similar fashions (being up a break, gaining momentum, but losing it, etc) yet the small details don't prevent the matches being compared to one another. Why else would everyone say that almost all Fedal slam matches are nearly identical?
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DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
You're not making enough of a big deal out of significant differences. Fedal matches are different from Fed Djoker matches.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
I see his current position as similar to Evert's from 82-84 when Navratilova overtook her and even began to dominate her. Evert did never regain total dominance of Martina, but after alot of hard work and adding new thigns to her game, she did regain a foothold in the rivalry, continued to win big titles through it all, and eventually began winning a few at Martina's expense again after everyone said that would never happen again, and even briefly regained #1. I see the Nadal-Djokovic rivalry eventually playing out something like that.
borg number one
Legend
I think that if Djokovic wins the CYGS he'll quickly be considered one of the all time great players, but as has always been the case, other players will also have arguments for being considered the "greatest". Singling out any one player is certainly not easy to do, without having to acknowledge arguments for and against that player and also arguments for and against other all time greats as well. So, even with a CYGS in 2012 for Djokovic, the discussion as to who is the greatest ever will simply continue. That debate will likely go on fairly uninterrupted for as long as pro tennis is played.
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