If federer had a two-hander...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Tenniswithtea, Feb 12, 2006.

  1. Tenniswithtea

    Tenniswithtea New User

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    Some people say Federer's backhand is his only "weak" spot
    Do you guys think if he had gotten a two-hander as good as Agassi's or Safin's, he would be even more dominant than he already is? :p
     
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  2. Lee

    Lee Guest

    I simply cannot imagine Federer with a 2 hander.

    His game prides itself in variety. With a 2 handed backhand, one would not be able to produce a myriad of shots so easily.

    A lot of Federer's backhand is impromptu, he has a lot of creative juice flowin when he is on the run, it's so beautiful! So I guess if he has a 2 hander he would not have the reach to make those crazy passes.

    Totally up to your imagination :)
     
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  3. VictorS.

    VictorS. Professional

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    I think the one-hander lends itself to a more complete game. Players who utilize the one-handed backhand usually have better slice backhands. This allows for a better transition to the net. In addition, most players with the one-handed backhand also tend to hit their backhand volleys more cleanly.

    There are indeed exceptions to the rule. Radek Stepanek and Mahesh Bhupathi for example are two guys that have excellent volley games and have twohanded backhands.
     
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  4. kabob

    kabob Professional

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    You're about 2 years behind. Federer's backhand used to be the weak spot that everyone picked on. He's improved it so much in the last 2 years, it is now a chief offensive and defensive weapon. Name one player with a better backhand, most especially spin generation and shot-making variety on that wing, and I'll ship you a batch of your favorite cookies.
     
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  5. sandiegotennisboy

    sandiegotennisboy Banned

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    umm.... fed doesn't have a weak side. yes, the forehand is superior, but his backhand is awesome too. i dont think fed's backhand side is something a player can exploit really....unlike the soon to be replaced best player of all time....but thats another thread.
     
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  6. arnz

    arnz Professional

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    To quote Agassi : there is nowhere to go with Fed

    He rates in the top 10 at everything I think, backhand, forehand, volleys, speed, variety, intelligence on court, mental toughness...put them all together its the Fed express..guaranteed delivery :)
     
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  7. babbette

    babbette Legend

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    He'd be even more of a master than he is today:p Ahh the thought:p
     
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  8. oscar_2424

    oscar_2424 Legend

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    i dont think Federer has a weak shot
     
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  9. vllockhart

    vllockhart Rookie

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    How much more dominant does a guy need to be? I think his one-hander is beautiful and perfect for him. He'd probably look funny hitting a two-hander.
     
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  10. Warriorroger

    Warriorroger Hall of Fame

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    If he had a two hander, he couldn't scratch his nuts during play. As every man here can agree with.
     
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  11. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    If he had a two-hander and was five years younger, he'd be Baghdatis.
     
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  12. JackRabbit

    JackRabbit Rookie

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    #12
  13. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    That video is a great conclusion to this debate.
    No tennis sane coach would consider tampering with his 1H BH
     
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  14. arnz

    arnz Professional

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    When Roger was five years younger, he was already being touted as a guy that can be better than Sampras, and everyone knew he was going to be great. Who knew Baghdatis before the AO??

    Lets see how he does this year first before making comparisons to the best players of all time
     
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  15. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    If Federer had a two-handed backhand, it might be more of an offensive weapon. The trade off for that, however, would be a weaker backhand volley. I don't think overall he would fare any better.
     
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  16. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Don'cha y'all know that a 1HBH is just better than a 2HBH?
     
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  17. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Uh, I enjoyed Baghdatis at the '04 USO when he played Federer. Lots of game back then.....

    Five years ago, Federer had loads of talent, but was a bit of a head case...

    Obviously he's worked on it.

    Isn't this thread about speculation? Implying Federer having a 1HBH is big speculation to me.
     
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  18. Carley1986

    Carley1986 New User

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    IMO it won't suit him if he had a double-hander. The way double-handed backhands are hit is different to the single-handed. Double-hander relys more on the hip rotation and power from the legs. As for single-hander i think rely more on the shoulder, hip and triceps. I think there's always good or bad in each stroke.

    For example, my backhand is my best shot, I can generate all my power into the shot, but for some reason i couldn't really hit a good one-hander. My brother he hits his one-hander really hard, way harder than mine but if you ask him to hit a double-hander he couldn't even get it over the net. So I guess, it's really preference, who knows roger couldn't even hit a double-hander?

    For some reason, I think Andy Roddick should change to a single-hander. I think he shoulders his backhand too much, that he loses power due to the restriction. I guess we'll never see him changing to a single hander. But Sampras tried and had success with it. I want to see Andy Roddick change too!
     
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  19. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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    What is this ??????????!!!!!!!!!! Can it be possible? A 2 hand backhander that has found a way of justifying his use of a 2hbh, eventhough the world's best player uses a 1hbh? Gosh! What's even worst is he's saying that Federer's backhand is WEAK! What are we going to see next? That he would be still better with a western grip?
     
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  20. jBayjoey

    jBayjoey New User

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    Federer would not be any more successful with a two-hand backhand. In fact, he would probably be less successful. The one-hand backhand suits Federer's game on so many levels. Although it would be impossible to make a hypothesis as to what Federer's game would be like with the two-hand backhand, here is what he would be lacking:

    1. Power. At the recreational level, a two hand backhand is always more powerful because most players lack the muscle strength and clean strokes that pro players do. At the professional level, a one hand backhand is more powerful for the same reason a one hand forehand is more powerful.
    2. Control. To steal a line from Tennis For Dummies by Patrick McEnroe, when you're lifting a wrecking ball, you use two hands. When you're painting a self-portrait, you use one.
    3. Variety of spins. One hand backhanders generally have better slices. In addition, topspin is more easily achieved. Less mass rests on the racquet so that imparts more spin control.
    4. Disguise. ESPN2 did it a pretty telling side by side comparison of both Federer's topspin backhand and slice backhand. One traveled around 90mph bouncing around chest/shoulder level. The other traveled around 55mph and bounced around the thighs/knees area. This sets up Federer's game completely.
    5. Volley. People with one hand backhands are more comfortable on the transition to volley.
     
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  21. Grigollif1

    Grigollif1 Semi-Pro

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  22. asman

    asman New User

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    When I had the pleasure to watch Federer last year in Montecarlo, half an hour before the big quarter final against Gasquet, he warmed up for a 30 minutes and I remember he did both backhand and forehand (!!!) with two hand, just for joking. Those shots were quite impressive, well executed. In an interview I red that Federer began tennis playing with two hands, on both sides. IMHO 1HBH is better for his complete all court game. In Montecarlo he did the ultimate complete arsenal of shots....2hfh, 2hbh, bh smash, approach Fh volley between legs, lethal dropshots. HE CAN DO EVERYTHING ON COURT. He was so natural, effortless, fast, his body seemed rubber-made and tennis never looked so easy to me!
     
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  23. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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    Could you imagine Henin-Hardenne, just to give a different example, without her 1hbh? I'm not saying one thing is better than the other. There are cons and pros to both. What pisses me off is people saying things such as doing it MY WAY IS BETTER than yours... Talk about feeling insecure...
     
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  24. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    I would say Federer does not really have a weak spot at this point
    because it's all played from baseline. His 1HBH is good enough
    and as good as it can be. Not quite as good as Haas or Kuerten IMHO
    but no way a weak spot.

    But more of future vulnerability is in his net game and 2nd serve.
    Right now the whole tour is being played based on baseliner's
    mentality. But when more varieties get restored with more
    attacking frame of mind, his 2nd serve will be more exploited
    and he will need more net game.

    He will have to take more risk for his 2nd serves and have to
    use net game forcefully, not as a supprise tactic.
    When he get pushed that way, we will know what he really has
    for his net game and serves. If he has those parts of the game,
    IMO he is truely greatest of all time...
     
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  25. kbg

    kbg Rookie

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    Imagine if he kept playing that way he'd be a bigger, more powerful Fabrice Santoro. Hehehe.
     
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  26. tenalyser

    tenalyser Rookie

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    If you want a proof of how good federers backhand is you should download the 2005 Wimbledon final against Roddick or the 2004 Us Open final against Hewitt. Federer hit during those finals a multiply of passing shot winners with his backhand and I saw one of the posters mentioning the tommy Haas backhand, granted that tommy has one of the best backhands in the game but in the Federer vs Haas match at the Australian Open Federer dominated Haas in the forehand and backhand department before he lost his concentration during the 3rd and 4th set. So you can't qualify Federers backhand as his weak spot no more.
     
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  27. habib

    habib Professional

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    What if he had a one-hander as powerful as Gasquet's? Besides, there are plenty of things he can do on his backhand side that Safin and Agassi can not.
     
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  28. Freedom

    Freedom Professional

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    Richard Gasquet.
    Justine Henin-Hardenne.

    I like Chocolate Chip. 2 batches, please.
     
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  29. quest01

    quest01 Hall of Fame

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    I believe if Federer had a 2 hander like Agassi he would be the best player by far. I believe the 2 hander is the better backhand. The 2 hander is better for power and precision while the 1 hander may be better for variety. I dont really think the variety comes into player as much as it used to because many players with 2 handers also use a 1 handed backhand slice.
     
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  30. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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  31. Grigollif1

    Grigollif1 Semi-Pro

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    Yeah , Marat Safin , Andre agassi and David Nalbandian some of the best 2 Handed Backhand right now, have really great slices...:rolleyes:
     
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  32. Midlife crisis

    Midlife crisis Hall of Fame

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    Then why do you hit a one handed forehand? Why not two hands off both sides if it is so much better for power and precision?
     
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  33. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    This thread is getting dum.

    Peeple hit the way that feelz mor cumfortable and the way that brings dem mor sucksess.
     
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  34. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Because you don't need it off of the forehand side.

    People aren't symmetrical - what is better on one side isn't necessarily so on the other.
     
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  35. buder

    buder Banned

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    his reach and court coverage would suffer and he would no longer be federer.
    federer's ability to reach well beyond the range of a 2hander and flick a winner when out of position is what makes him dangerous.
     
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  36. monologuist

    monologuist Hall of Fame

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    Federer's backhand is not a weakness...it is just LESS DOMINANT....lol.

    Best 1-handed backhands on tour currently :
    1.Guga
    2.Gasquet
    3.Haas
    4.Fed

    whatever...he has the best Forehand in men's tennis, one of the top 5 1-handed backhand drives, one of the top 5 or so slices, one of the top 5 or so servers, one of the top 5 or so volleyers, one of the top 5 or so movers...etc, etc. etc., etc. The only areas where he may not be top 5 or so in the world are maybe lobs and dropshots...and he can certainly hit great ones if he is in a position where he ever needs to, which is rare...lol.

    I can hardly think of any other players that have a stroke/weapon that is top 5 or so in more than 1 category, let alone multiple ones like Fed...there are a few hat might be in consideration in 2 categories, and most these are highly debatable : Nadal (forehand and movement), Dent (serve and volley), Roddick 2-3 years ago (serve and forehand), Agassi (forehand and backhand), Ljubicic (serve and forehand), Coria (backhand and movement), Blake (Forehand and movement), Safin (backhand and serve).
     
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  37. 156MPHserve

    156MPHserve Professional

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    This is my take... Federer might be SLIGHTLY better if he had a 2 hander. The one hander is just hard shot to time and he does it as good as anyone else. However, just once in a while he'll get huge mishits. About once a set at least. Sometimes, not having the reliable shot will cost you as it did when he mishit on Safin's set point in the 4th set tiebreak semi at AO.

    You guys all say Federer won't have the reach and the backhand volley. I don't think this is true. Federer would still be able to slice on the defense so he will have the reach. And slicing will work to help his backhand volley as well.

    Look at Marat Safin, his backhand volleys are much better than his forehand side, but he uses a 2HBH so the theory that Federer's net game would suffer doesn't seem to be a good reason.

    All in all, Federer is as perfect as they come... no need to change what is working perfectly. (In case you haven't noticed, his backhand isn't weak at all, he has good power and AMAZING precision with it, it's only shadowed by his Godly forehand.
     
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  38. FedererUberAlles

    FedererUberAlles Professional

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    Ljubicic's backhand is even better. Down the line and extreme cross court angles that are unbelievable.
     
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  39. Midlife crisis

    Midlife crisis Hall of Fame

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    Scientific studies have shown that "handedness" is mostly a preferential thing. If you train your off-hand, it can be as skilled as your primary hand, even if you still have the preference.

    So, is it just a matter that people don't train correctly and need to hit a two-handed backhand (versus one handed or two forehands), or does it come back to being a matter of strength and desire?
     
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  40. Grigollif1

    Grigollif1 Semi-Pro

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    I believe is very clear that, People that use the 2 Handed Backhand Here, are going to defend their Stroke and Say that Federer Would be a better player rather then using the One handed, and Vice versa...
     
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  41. Slazenger

    Slazenger Professional

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    Off topic.
    In the last French Open mixed double finals Gasquet hit a reflex 2handed swinging volley winner.
     
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  42. monologuist

    monologuist Hall of Fame

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    well...for every one of those backhand mishits, when he curses loudly in German, there are like a half-dozen to a dozen screaming winners down the line or crosscourt....if he had a 2 hander, there would less mishits/errors, but also less winners. I think having the 1-hander, even though it is susceptible to breaking down for short periods (and it is never off for a whole match!...a set at most), goes a long way in setting up the rest of his game :

    1. 1-hander is more powerful; i.e. he can hit winners just as easily of of both wings, or at least push his opponent around with his bakhand. There are not many 2-handers that can say the same...Agassi and Safin, maybe.
    2. 1-hander takes more time away form the opponent, not just b/c it is more powerful, but it is hit further out front of the body, earlier, again making it a better as an attacking weapon.
    3. The ability to generate winners with nearly equal ease from both wings from just about anywhere on the court allows Fed to transition from defense to offense instantaneously at just about any moment in a point...probably the single facet of his game that contributes most to his dominance.
    4. Intimidation/surpirse factor : his explosiveness off the backhand wing via a 1-hander is intimidating to his opponents and can often take them by surpirse. They know that if they attempt to break down his backhand by repeatedly hitting to it, that they run the risk of his simply unloading a screaming winner if they let up for even a moment and give him enough time to set up. And it is scary how you can't really tell when he is going to rip one of those BH winners...the pace of 2-handed backhands seems to vary less, probably b/c of the limited range of motion and acceleration. Unfortunately Agassi has not caught onto this, as he insists on drilling shots at Fed's backhand repeatedly in hopes that he will force an error or mishit, without varying the pace, spin or angle, without mixing in a few downtheliners to Fed's forehand. Nalbandian and Safin on the other hand seem to have recognized this recipe for success against the Rog.
    5. His forehand is so scary and has been for so long, that everyone has taken the tactic of hitting only to his backhand when possible, over the last few years. As a result, guess what?...Thanks to his opponents, he's been given the opportunity to practice his backhand, and now it is almost as good as his forehand! He has used his opponents, like Agassi, like human ball-machines for backhand drills, and what did you really expect a man of his athletic talent to do, regress? Honestly, of late (well only in the last few months), I feel like his forehand has been the more error-prone of the 2 wings. Maybe it's getting a little rusty from lack of use?!

    Suffice to say, that generally speaking, a 2-handed backhand usually is superior as a defensive shot, as it does not require the same precision in footwork and timing, you can hit it later, you can hit it with a more compact swing, you can hit it with a more open stance, etc. The 1-hander is a better attacking weapon, as it can be hit with more pace, given the time and footwork, due to a longer range of motion without the second hand holding the handle, greater racquet acceleration, more shoulder and waste torque possible, making contact further in front of the bodyt/earlier, etc. Fed's entire game is based on taking the offensive when his opponent is either not expecting it or in a vulnerable position (and doesn't know it); he is not a counterpuncher..he is essentially an attacking player, always looking for the opening to step into the court, cutting off angles and taking away time from his opponents. Towards this end, a 1-handed backhand is preferable, hence his choice to use it..

    BTW,
    does anyone know what the heck Fed is saying when he curses in german after a mishit? It always cracks me up when he does it.
     
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  43. gaspard

    gaspard New User

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    The only advantage of the two hander over the one is that it generally offers greater control and stability on the topspin drive. Other than this, there are no further advantages. Steffi Graf was a bit scared to hit her topspin backhand in match situations and Rusedski is still stuggling with the technique, due to the lack of stability that sometimes comes with the single hander. If Federer was experiencing similar problems, I would agree that a two hander would have been better, but this is not the case. He has total control on his backhand drive, no stability problems at all. Since he has no stability problems, there could be no further reason for him to adopt a two hander.

    If you have control over the one hander, then it has all the other advantages. Better mobility on the backhand side. The ridiculous backhand running pass Federer hit down the line against Mirnyi in this Aus Open, would not be possible with a two hander. The greater leverage and extension on the one hander also enables you to potentially create more power and spin on the drive. There are the advantages to ones transition game and familiarity with the slice. Variety of spins. Benefits for defense and off balance shots. Better reach. None of these benefits come to fruition without control, but if one has control, then one gets all the advantages. Federer has control of the backhand and subsequently gets all the advantages.

    Besides these practical considerations, federer's backhand is so stylish. It fits with the rest of his flair game. A two hander would not look as good.

    Gaspard
     
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  44. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    The one hander allows Fed to play defense until he can pounce on a weak shot and switch to offense. I know A lot of you kids on this board think the slice is boring (and the next defensive lob you hit will be your first) but it allows one to get back in a point - and because it stays low it can give 2 handed backhanders fits.
     
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  45. monologuist

    monologuist Hall of Fame

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    yes, yes...Roger is obviously VERY attuned to aesthetics. You can see it in everything from the way his strokes look down to his million dollar haircut. He is also very attuned to tennis history. I bet his reverence for the men's players of old weighed into his decision to use a 1-hander as well.
     
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  46. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Federer can hit a 2 hander, but he chooses to use the one hander and who can blame him? Federer's backhand is better than most and he's one of the few players who can mix up slice with drives at will. Federer's 2 hander is obviously not as good as Agassi's or Safin's, but that doesn't mean his backhand is inferior to theirs. Federer's backhand is as good as any 2 hander's backhand so he made the right choice in using the 1 hander instead of the 2 hander.
     
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  47. jtreed2000

    jtreed2000 Rookie

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    Monologuist and Gaspard got it right. The 1H that has more variety, and it's is capable of being more aggressive for that reason. It's also inherently more powerful. The 2H is more defensive, but extremely reliable, which is why it's so common. I've used both and definitely agree that a 1H is more difficult to master, but it may be worthwhile in the long run (esp for players seeking maximum mobilty). I used a 2H once or twice when I played one summer in school, but used a 1H when I began to play seriously a few years ago. I've gone back to a 2H (termporarily permanent, lol?) b/c I could not execute reliable topspin drives, which seems pretty common to new/undeveloped one handers. I still have a nice slice, but it was obvious that topspin/drives are important on both wings and matches began to fall in my lap once I could execute them reliably on both sides. And as different as the strokes are, there are some simliarities in the mechanics lower body (stance more closed on 1H). Getting good flexibilty in the torso and using my hip/legs more were the only obstacles I had with two hands. The biggest reasons to use a 2H are reliability and taking the ball either on the rise OR late, but if you can have those with a 1H it would be the better of the two strokes because it requires slightly less mobility and gives you more options.

    Federer would be limited by 1/2 a step to the left, which adds up during a rally, so he would lose some mobility. That is a key asset to him. He is already reliable enough with his one hander, so I don't think he would gain anything by going to two hands. He wouldn't shank those one handers every now and then, but we wouldn't get to hear those comical german outbursts during his matches either. Nadal is a player who can make the 2H work at the top level against a 1H, like Federer, so you can't say one is better than the other. I simply think that mobility becomes more crucial against a player who can master a 1H BH. Comparing the two in my opinion is a good basis for the 1H vs 2H debate. Their styles and limitations are classic examples of the pros/cons of each.
     
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  48. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    AFAIK, Federer chose 1 hander simply because he couldn't
    be really comfortable with 2 hander. He said he could never
    feel comfortable with it.
     
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  49. bc-05

    bc-05 Semi-Pro

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    648
    well im just gonna speak behalf of federer and one-hander on this board.. im not gonna argue which backhand is the best or anything.. but for the double-hander that thinks double-hander is better and more powerful please explain to me why it is so? is it because the safins and the agassi are hitting it so good that you think its the best? or theres actually some tests that said double-hander are more powerful?

    Speaking from experience myself.. im a single-hander myself.. and i have no problem watsoever hitting high balls, low balls, balls with a lot of topspins or kickserve.. i can generate power as hard as my forehand.. not a problem at all.. however sometimes when you're a bit late to the ball or ur not really focused or maybe u have a mishits.. and your muscle cant cope with the vibration.. the ball tends to spray everywhere.. which i can accept with ppl that says two hander are more reliable... yes it is very reliable.. and it is easier to control.. but as for generating pace? i just dont see it.. having to hit a double hander is like me hitting a double hander on the forehand.. u get control, spin, stability.. but power decreases..

    most ppl these days hit with double hander because it is easier to teach and well easier to perform i guess... i mean ppl with double-hander (for example my friend), he has one of the biggest double-handed backhand but if u ask him to hit a one hander he can hit em so hard but only small percentage would go in but the pace is more.. so as for feds hitting a single-hander.. if he's strong enough to handle ppls spin or strong enough to control, why does he need to go to a double-hander, where he can hit much harder with a single hander?
     
    #49
  50. VGP

    VGP Legend

    Joined:
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    #50

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