If Murray faces Nadal at Wimbledon...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Nathaniel_Near, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. OKUSA

    OKUSA Hall of Fame

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    Well, I sure hope he's leading the tour in every stat considering he's played 8 tournaments on clay (mostly against low-tier clay courters) and 1 slow hard court. Let's see how many return games he will be winning at Wimbledon
     
  2. pds999

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    I see a lot of Murray (I am British) and, given his form, I am surprised people think he would beat Rafa on grass.
     
  3. FreeBird

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  4. OKUSA

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    Well, he's actually #2 to David Ferrer to return games won and %. Guess David Ferrer is currently the best returner on tour, sorry Nadal
     
  5. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Fixed. :twisted:

    More seriously, what Nadal did on grass so far? Or last year for that matters. Even if Nadal got lots of titles so far this year on clay, it doesn't mean Murray isn't a good grass courter and hasn't his chance. Or that clay results translate on grass in some way. Nadal is able to play good on grass, but I don't see him mopping the floor with Murray on that surface at Wimbledon.
     
  6. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. My point is simply that Rafa would be favourite, probably in 4. People are overegging how good Murray is on grass.
     
  7. FreeBird

    FreeBird Legend

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    Why does it matter if people consider him favorite or not ? The only thing that matters is that who bring the trophy home.
     
  8. ScottleeSV

    ScottleeSV Professional

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    So am I.

    More predictable stuff we'll see if they meet at Wimbledon.

    Commentator (after Nadal has gone 2-1 up in sets) : "Murray just didn't seem as aggressive in that set. He really needs to take it to Nadal more like he did at the start".

    Bloke with a mic out on Murray Mound just before the fourth set : "Still keeping the faith guys?"

    Middle aged woman with embarrassing GB tattoos on her cheek : "Absolutely! Andy to win in five!"

    The bloke next to her : "Yep. He's just had an off set or two there, but he'll be back. He's gonna do this. I can feel it. Wouldn't be Murray if he didn't put us through the ringer".

    Bloke with mic turns back to the cam : "Well, you heard it. Still a HUGE optimism that Murray can pull this off out here. Back to you on centre".

    Commentator after Nadal breaks in the fourth set : "Well, there's just a sense of the anti-climatic in here at the moment. You just wonder if Andy's lack of tournaments in the build up to the grass court season is maybe just starting to take its toll".

    Later on, Sue Barker in the studio, wrapping up the show : "Well, they came, they hoped, they prayed, but in the end, the King of Clay was the King of Grass. We'll see you tomorrow. Goodnight".

    Cue montage of Nadal and Murray cracking winners and scampering from side to side.

    Tell me it isn't going to happen?!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
  9. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    That is eerily accurate.
     
  10. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    That's not really your point though is it. Despite our chat yesterday, you do think that Murray has next to no chance versus Nadal, and it annoys you that people think otherwise.

    Murray won the last big title played on grass, destroying a 7 time wimbledon winner and straight setting the world number 1 in the process. A month before that he made the final of wimbledon while 'Can't lose to Murray on grass' Rafa was getting reamed in the 5th set by the world number 100.

    Those things suggest that Murray would have more than a longshot chance versus Nadal should they meet at SW19.

    Rafa being this, that or whatever this year as a result of playing amazingly on clay doesn't really have much of a bearing on what will happen on the grass of Wimbledon.
     
  11. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Why 'can't' Murray do this? Are you seriously suggesting that if last year's OG semi final was Bo5 that Novak would have been guaranteed to win?
     
  12. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    But you have to look at it this way: Once Rafa reaches the second week, that grass turns to clay, and Rafa will have the advantage.

    Rafa's vulnerability comes from the big hitters on the first week. He may or may not meet one, depends on his luck with the draw. And he's definitely not meeting Murray on the first week.
    Again my point: if Rafa meets Murray on the semis or quarters, Rafa has the advantage.
     
  13. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Mate, if you look back to all my posts on this thread you'll find me saying Rafa is the favourite if they meet. I have no issue with anyone saying this - how could I when it's what I think!

    My beef is with the absolutist ***** about what Murray 'can't' do because of previous performances. Don't these guys understand that it's sport? Rafa 'couldn't' beat Nole 2.0 until he did.
     
  14. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Double Post..................
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  15. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Sorry Man, didnt read the whole thread and all your previous posts, just a few. We both agree then. And I can see where your beef is re: these fans who think
    about the absolute result, when the game hasn't been played yet.

    I actually think that MUzza not playing FO was a good tactical move to prep for the grass season. And this might be his year to win, given a favorable draw. We'll see.
     
  16. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    ha ha ha ha , the ignorance of it all.

    murray's return as a standalone shot is simply and quite clearly superior to rafa's.

    as far as the slice is concerned, rafa's slice is an adequate one at best. murray's is very good. No contest whatsoever. slice is not a shot honed on a clay court, the slice sits up on a clay court in general, its used far lesser on clay in comparison to grass/fast hardcourts/carpet.

    the edges that rafa has on murray on grass are the fh , a more stable first serve ( % doesn't fluctuate much - ,though murray's when on is clearly better ) the second serve and mental strength

    would rate peak rafa's movement better, but right now would say about equal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  17. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    No worries Buddy.


    And you know what a favourable draw looks like this year for Andy? Rafa is in the other half. Any draw that sees Rafa in the opposite half is a good one for Murray.

    I've said it for ages mate - Rafa (on grass) is the final test for the Lendlised Murray.
     
  18. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    IMO, nole's is more effective vs the mediocre to average serves on slow to medium surfaces

    as the effectiveness of the serves and the speed of the courts increases, murray's becomes better .

    djokovic can punish the relatively easier serves better, but murray can return better vs the more difficult serves.
     
  19. FreeBird

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    He has undoubtedly the talent to win it all but has a lot of mental lapses. In AO 13, he should have been 2 sets up, Instead, he lost the battle in 4 sets. He can't keep it in for 6 sets against the top guns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  20. pds999

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    We will have to disagree on the return. As for the slice, I simply don't agree. The slice was one change of tactic Rafa used last season against Djokovic, to great effect. Murray can knife his slice when on, but it is overall an inconsistent shot. Rafa almost never misses. And it 'is' a shot honed on clay, always has been.
     
  21. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. Gets down on himself far too much. Nadal and Djokovic are an utterly different level mentally.
     
  22. Warmaster

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    Murray's ROS is way better than Nadal's, especially on fast surfaces. (I'm only talking about the ROS itself, not the return game).

    As for the slice, Nadal has a pretty good consistent slice, whereas Murray's is a bit more effective but slighty more inconsistent as well so the difference is not that big.
     
  23. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with most of that, although Rafa's ROS is much underrated. I don't give Murray the edge there.
     
  24. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Simply, because he will be too tired. The Australian Open is an example of this. Murray's style of play is too physical for even him. Nadal and Djokovic can play it without getting tired, but not Murray. Even at Wimbledon 012 he was beginning to feel the effects of his previous matches in the fourth set. If he goes 5 to beat Nadal, I don't think he will have the energy required to beat Djoke even in 4, would have to straight set him.
     
  25. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with this to a point. Murray isn't at the same level physically as Rafa and Djokovic, not quite. Grass however is typically easier on the body and produces shorter matches than clay or the slower hard courts, so he may get away with it at Wimbledon.
     
  26. thejoe

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    You think Rafa's ROS is better than Murray's? Why?
     
  27. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    Not so much better, but as effective. Rafa has a habit of putting the ball back in very difficult places. Murray has a flatter cleaner return which technically looks superior, but is no more effective. IMO. Djokovic is the best returner for me.
     
  28. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal has a solid ROS (especially against servers who rely more on placement and disguise than sheer power) but you're equaling return game to return of serve which are too different things (akin to people equaling serve game and serve all the time).

    Murray's ROS as a standalone shot is better than Nadal's by a solid margin, however Nadal's return game is just plain better because of his speed, being one of the best at turning defense to offense, overall dominance from the baseline etc.
     
  29. thejoe

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    I think Rafa's return game is exceptional, in that he can reset a point to neutral and then begin to take control. But if we're talking about the return of serve itself, then I don't see how comparison can be made. Murray can do so much more with it.

    I definitely agree that NOvak's ahead of both, mind.
     
  30. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    I wasn't confusing the two but I know what you mean. I just think Rafa's return is a very underrated shot given how effective it is.
     
  31. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    But resetting the point to neutral is key to the return shot. Murray probably hits more return winners, but overall I wouldn't say he has a more effective return.
     
  32. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Remind me who broke down physically in the fifth set of the 2012 USO Final?
     
  33. Warmaster

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    It definitely wasn't the wind! :wink:
     
  34. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Andy Murray is playing well at Queens right now. He definitely looks like he is rounding into form. Yet, I'll pick Nadal if they meet at Wimbledon this year.
     
  35. ManOfSteel2013

    ManOfSteel2013 Banned

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    Exactly.. No need to post from now on, as we know what you are going to say. Bye.
     
  36. pds999

    pds999 Hall of Fame

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    Murray is moving well yes. Looking sharp today.
     
  37. Clay lover

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    Nadal seems to have the upper hand every time they've played on grass...and I believe will remain to be so, since the edge Nadal has seems to be mental...being able to play the big points better. I would start to think otherwise if Nadal stopped being mentally tough one day.
     
  38. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Murray's a changed man!
     
  39. Clay lover

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    Yeah...makes the next encounter even more interesting:)
     
  40. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    grab your popcorn I say, I think lots of good possible match ups this Wimby. i want to see how Haas and Dimitrov will do.
     
  41. ManOfSteel2013

    ManOfSteel2013 Banned

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    Yep, look at the difference between 2012 and 2011....

    2011:
    - Nadal beat Murray at Wimbledon
    - Nadal beat Murray at US Open

    2012:
    - Nadal lost early at Wimbledon
    - Nadal didn't play US Open
     
  42. FreeBird

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    Fixed for You.
     
  43. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    oh hell no, Simba to be prove critics wrong!
     
  44. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    1 year can make a difference, look at Djoko 2010 and Djoko 2011. Arrogant trolly aside, should Nadal meet Murray, you better be scared.
     
  45. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm too hungover at this point to post a long reply, so I'll just say this. It's probably an overly simple point of view, but the fact is Djokovic is the best player today to the point where he can win on any surface. The way some talk, you'd think he was useless and will get creamed by any of Murray, Federer, or Nadal. Like the matches wouldn't even be close, which I have a really tough time believing. I'm not going to go all Clarky mode and say Cvac is unbeatable blah blah blah, but he is the best these days.
     
  46. FreeBird

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    Simba at wimby. :p

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  47. FreeBird

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  48. ManOfSteel2013

    ManOfSteel2013 Banned

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    "Scared" LOL, I don't even respect Murray let alone fear :lol:
     
  49. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    The final of AO finally caught up with him in that match, just like it did with Nadal at Wimbledon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  50. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    MOS *** ********* 6-1 6-3 6-0 etc. etc. same dude
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013

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