If Murray wins Paris and WTF, would you consider him the player of the year?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by kragster, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Points wise he would not be number 1 but he would have won masters titles USO/OG/WTF , pretty good consistency in slams.

    Obviously at this point, the default is that Nole is player of the year.
     
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  2. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Hmm, no. I think his reward is and should be that he's in a great position to become no. 1, but his first part of the year just was significantly worse than Novak's. He was way way worse on clay, and on grass they didn't meet because Rog was better than both. He would be HC player of the year though.
     
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  3. MSK

    MSK Rookie

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    Yeah definitely.
    I consider him the real world no.1 at the moment.
     
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  4. tennisenthusiast

    tennisenthusiast Hall of Fame

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    Being a *******, I consider Federer to be the player of the year.
     
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  5. CDNguy87

    CDNguy87 Hall of Fame

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    Murray beat Novak in the Olympic Semis.
     
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  6. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah ok...How exactly?
     
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  7. MSK

    MSK Rookie

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    Last 2x he has played federer he won convincingly, without any signs of struggle.

    Last 3 matches between him and djoko it has been extremely close, with Murray winning 2/3.

    Murray is the best at this moment in time. Not the best throughout the entire year by any means, but he is playing the best tennis as of now.
     
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  8. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry. So okay, he's second best on grass (only just) and best on hards, but only fifth on clay I guess, so my point still stands. His clay season just wasn't good enough compared to Nole's. But it's def. close, which the points would show if he wins it all.

    Purely titles based, he should be above Nole of course, since WTF and Olympics are most important after slams.
     
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  9. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    So that makes him player of the year how?
     
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  10. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    IMO Noel is POTY - it just gets cemented if he wins WTF. That said, there is an arguemnt to be made for Murray if he wins WTF. The argument is that there were 6 big prizes up for grabs this year and if Murray wins WTF he'll have won 3 of them - with the balance split between 3 other players.

    But I agree that as of right now, Noel is clear POTY.
     
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  11. MSK

    MSK Rookie

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    I never said that, i said i think he is the world's best player.
     
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  12. underground

    underground Legend

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    Yes Murray has been great this year, but you can't compare to what Fed has done this year at his age.
     
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  13. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Yep - if Sexi wins the WTF you could also make an argument for him being POTY.
     
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  14. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah i feel if Murray wins the Wtf player of the year is between Novak and him but Murray having a breakthrough year would probably win official player of the year.
     
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  15. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Yes :)......Though ITF will pick Djokovic because of the YE#1!
     
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  16. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    No. Djokovic is the player of the year.
     
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  17. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I guess that should do it.

    First Slam, Olympic gold medal, first Paris title, first WTF title. That's 4 firsts and at least 3 of them are pretty big firsts! I don't really think anyone but the most die-hard Murrayphobes could begrudge him if that turns out to be the case. I doubt even Djokovic and Federer would begrudge him!
     
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  18. Terenigma

    Terenigma Legend

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    I think Murray, Federer and Djokovic have all had an equally good year, you could make arguements for each of them being the best player this year and noone could realistically argue.

    With that said tho, the WTF is the decider, i think whoever wins the WTF is the player of the year. If murray wins paris and the WTF then no arguement can be made against him being the player of the year.
     
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  19. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Yes I bally well would
     
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  20. Smasher08

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    Let's review the contenders:

    Djoker -- clearly declined from last year. Had a horrible loss today. Tied with Fed for most MS1000s but won Toronto just by showing up. May not finish YE #1.

    Muzz -- player of the moment. Won USO and Olympics. Had a horrible year until SW19. Benefitted the most from the absence of Nadal.

    Sexi -- comeback year. Tied for most MS1000s, took over #1 and can mathematically retake it. Turned 31 in August and played through injuries. Key wins over Djoko after the clay season.

    Verdict: Whoever wins at the O2 should take it, regardless of ranking. Otherwise imo Fed is the strongest contender.

    Oh . . . I almost forgot the fourth contender.

    Rosol -- came out of nowhere and in the course of one match rocked the tennis world to its very foundations, the effects of which will still reverberate throughout the early part of next year. Not bad for a career journeyman who'd never made it out of qualies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
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  21. tennisenthusiast

    tennisenthusiast Hall of Fame

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    So, you feel Djokovic may not end #1? And, Federer has chance of reclaiming it before the year or early next year?

     
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  22. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    Clay is part of the season, so no.
     
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  23. Backhanded Compliment

    Backhanded Compliment Hall of Fame

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    That's the way I see it but the real stakes are who will be #1 come February. If Murray can take the WTF it puts him in an excellent position.
     
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  24. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    If Muzza wins in Paris, he doesn't in London.

    FACT.
     
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  25. hersito

    hersito Rookie

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    No way, he is still 4th in my mind, can't hold a candle to djoko, fed or nadal. he is in the tier of tsonga, ferrer, delpotro and berdych.
     
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  26. Desertman

    Desertman Semi-Pro

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    Win or not, I already consider him 2012 player of the year.

    To overcome a 76 year wait for a Grand Slam title with the weight if 60 million people on your shoulders, and to win your home Olympic title is amazing. These two wins far exceeds anything that the other three contenders have done this year.
     
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  27. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Hahaha, Murray still gets no respect from TW.
    Sorry mate, I disagree. He has manage to consistently beat the top 3 unlike the rest the players above
     
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  28. Gonzo_style

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    NO, he didn't reach semi final on clay in any tournament!
     
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  29. tennisdad65

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    He already is POY for me. He got 2 out of the 5 big wins. Even if Fed wins WTF, it does not compare to the breakthrough aspect for Murray.
     
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  30. hersito

    hersito Rookie

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    I didn't say h is a horrible player, just not up to par with the 3 best player in the world IMO. And when did he consistently beat the top 3? that you beat them once in a while doesnt mean consstency, otherwise he would be number 1, look at his loses this year:

    Shangai final to djoko
    Tokio at S to Raonic (15 in the world)
    Cinci at R16 with Chardy No 38.
    Toronto at R16 with Raonic.
    Wimmbledon F to Federer.
    London at r32 whit mahut no 65.
    RG at Q aginst ferrer no 6.
    Rome R16 against Gasquet no 22.
    Barcelona Q aganinst raonic.
    Monte carlo Q against Berdych No 7.
    Miami F against Djoco.
    Indian wells R64 agains lopez No 92.
    Dubai F against Federer.
    AO S against Djoko.

    And he won:
    only OG and USO.

    He got consistently Owned by Raonic, a 20th ranking player, how can you call that player of the year? Roger and Djoko had a better year. Only fanatism will say otherwise.
     
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  31. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    It does not bare thinking about.
     
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  32. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Even if Federer won the WTF I would not consider him as having a better year than Novak. Novak has 3 slam finals to only 1 for Roger, and both have 3 Masters with Novak more overall good results in those too. The WTF title alone would not overcome that.

    Murray I would only consider above Novak if he won BOTH Paris and the WTF. Without a Masters title he would not have a better year than a guy with 3 Masters titles and the best slam record even with the Olympic and WTF wins.

    As for who would win the ATP and ITF awards, they usually only deviate from the official rankings if it is a clear case, so I doubt Djokovic would not win both regardless. Only Murray would have an outside shot to win them (or one) if he won both Paris and the WTF.

    Novak is already guaranteed the year end #1 ranking btw even if he goes 0-3 at the WTF.
     
    #32
  33. Walenty

    Walenty Professional

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    Isn't this board always going on about how slams are all that matter?

    Uumm....

    1 Slam + 1 Olympic Singles Gold Medal + 1 WTF > 1 Slam

    If he wins the finals it's a sure thing in my book. If one of the other big three wins it, then it's up for discussion.
     
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  34. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    if that is the case the guy with 1 slam, 3 slam finals, and semis of the other slam, is obviously Player of the Year as well.
     
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  35. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Murray won in London you know.....he can do again this year.

    Murray can win WTF while Federer knocks out Djokovic in the SF stage. Murray then takes out tired old Federer from his exhausted bout with Djokovic easily.
     
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  36. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Muzzas fitness is lame compared to the others, including old man Fed. Winning Paris then London?

    Fat chance. 8)
     
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  37. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Player of the second half IF Fed and Nole decide to tank WTF.
     
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  38. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Well, he has a 10-8 H2H v Federer. How's that for consistency? Does anybody else apart from Nadal boast a H2H against the world's greatest player like that? And he's beaten Djokovic, the current #1, in 3 out of 6 encounters this year and almost, and should, have beaten him in 4. Can anybody else you know of claim that??

    ONLY USO and Olympics?? You make it sound so routine? How many other players have won the Olympics and a Grand Slam back to back? Federer and Djokovic have never managed it. Nadal is the only other current player who has!

    Owned by Raonic?? He lost to him at Barcelona in straights on what is by far his worst surface, clay.That is true. But he destroyed him at the USO and held 2 match points against him in Tokyo which he should have converted. That hardly adds up to 'ownage' does it?
     
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  39. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    Murray is the best player of the second half, no doubt about that! Problem is first half, Federer and especially Djokovic had a much much better results!
     
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  40. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    All but 1 of Murray's victories over Federer were from 2008 onwards, and very little of that time was Federer ever the Worlds best player. It was most often Nadal, and when not Nadal it was most often Djokovic.
     
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  41. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah actually the area Murray has been lacking by his own standards and top 4 standards in this year is beating the guys he is way better than. I mean most of the time he's done it but he's kind of worsened in masters events and beating the lower ranked guys, but improved in slams and beating the top 4. Kind of strange. But he's done a fine job vs the top 4, I believe 2-2 vs Federer and 3-3 vs Djokovic.



    I don't really see the significance of winning olympics and a slam back to back, why is that any better than winning a slam and a slam back to back? Plus there were tournaments inbetween which neither Nadal or Murray won. Plus Olympics being every 4 years means there is much less opportunity. I mean Djokovic and Federer didn't win the olympics at all, so not like their ability to win one of the nearest slams has been tested.
     
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  42. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    I thought Murray spanked Raonic at USO.
     
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  43. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

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    If one of the big 3 wins the WTF, then they will be the clear winner. Right now it's a toss up, but if I had to pick one I'd say Djokovic.
     
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  44. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Yep, no question. If Murray wins Paris and the WTF I will consider him player of the year. I already do consider him player of the year after reaching the W final, winning the OG and the USO.
     
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  45. Duncan Bell

    Duncan Bell Hall of Fame

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    I love Murray, but if clay season was in the second half of the year, and HC was first half, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. He's hot right now, and probably the best HC/indoor player, but he's well off the pace on clay. Grass he is 2nd/3rd best.

    And he isn't very good on carpet. ;)
     
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  46. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    4 of Murray's 10 wins over Roger came when Roger was ranked number 1 in the world. I'm not getting what Roger's ranking has to do with Murray's consistency against him.
     
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  47. kalyan4fedever

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    Who will beat murray in paris remains to be seen :D
     
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  48. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    The same way he was spanked in Barcelona.

    The title of "player of the year" includes the results of all the swings of the year. Slow-HC, Clay, Grass, "fast"-HC and Indoors.

    How about Andy's clay season? Owned by Raonic on Barcelona, didn't play Mardid, spanked by Berdych in Monte Carlo, defeated by Gasquet on Rome and beaten by David in Paris.

    As far as I remember, he didn't reach a single semi-final during the clay season. That's massive against him for this kind of award.
     
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  49. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Yep - that's exactly what Murray himself said when asked if he was POTY - he simply didn't do enough on clay.
     
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  50. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    Bump for apparent reason ,:twisted: this should keep murr tards off the boards a little while
     
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