If Nadal wins RG and Wimbledon, is Fed record threatened?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by IgnatusP, Mar 26, 2013.

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If Nadal wins the next 2 slams, will Federer's slam record be in danger?

  1. Yes, Nadal could win at least 4 slams after that

    56.8%
  2. No way, Nadal would fall short of his goal

    43.2%
  1. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    If he doubles up again, then of course Federer's record is threatened. However, that is a big IF. I'm sure Murray will no longer be a punchbag for Nadal at Wimbledon after last year and , of course, Djokovic is Nadal's sworn enemy ever since 2011. In addition to the treat by his rivals, Nadal also have to watch in the first week of Wimbledon when he can be vulnerable to upsets.
     
    #51
  2. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Thanks, that's very nice of you. I agree, it is unknown, but Nadal has that x factor. That's the best way I can describe it. The guy strikes me as extremely sure of his ability to do the seemingly impossible. His mentality does not allow him to take anything for granted though. He just keeps pushing the envelope. He just has that hunger again, in my opinion. He has that look or glimmer in his eye so to speak. So, I would not count that guy out in terms of racking up majors again. Borg does do interviews and I think his answer would be yes. He speaks of Nadal very highly. After the 2007 Wimbldeon final, Bjorn Borg picked Nadal to win Wimbledon in 2008 for example. See this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcDEI3oEkhc
     
    #52
  3. NEW_BORN

    NEW_BORN Professional

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    Fed's record is threatened for as long as Nadal is active on tour.
    They are destined to retire at the same time.
     
    #53
  4. FedExpress17

    FedExpress17 Rookie

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    Do people think Fed and Nadal will both retire at Rio 2016 or else at the end of that year? Would be quite fitting :)
     
    #54
  5. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Yes, Nadal's intensity is unmatched. He seems to be unwilling to lose under the worst circumstances. This part of his character is, ironically, what I think has caused some people to consider him "less graceful" than players like Federer, who normally is the epitome of cool.

    In this sense (as well as in playing style) Federer and Nadal are quite different, and I think it has contributed to the way the audiences have been so polarized in their rivalry.

    One of my favorite Nadal matches was a sad loss (USO 11), simply because he made me believe he could pull it off in the third set. That set represents the essence of Nadal to me.

    Thank you, I hadn't watched this particular interview. It's amazing how much Borg was on the money, having the benefit of knowing how things played out. Absolutely amazing.
     
    #55
  6. NEW_BORN

    NEW_BORN Professional

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    I hope that their final match is against each other in a final, i don't care where.
    It would be fitting for one or the other to be the one to retire the other :)
     
    #56
  7. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I agree. So he would need the next 3 channel slams to only match Federer. And Federer's not done yet.
     
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  8. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    If Nadal comes within 1 slam of Fed, it's going to be like a duel in the old West. No way Fed retires with Nadal within 1 slam of his record. He might play with a cane if necessary.
     
    #58
  9. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Like that shining beacon amongst the Nadal haters (vive le beau jeau !) once said, channeling the immortal words of Martin Niem├Âller:

    First the Nadal came for the Miami,
    and I did not care
    because he was just a teenager.

    Then the Nadal came for the Roland Garros,
    and I did not worry
    because he wasn't slam material.

    Then the Nadal came for the Wimbledon,
    and I did not lose sleep
    because he was an unidimensional clay courter.

    Then the Nadal came for the Australian Open and the US Open,
    and I did not fight
    because he couldn't win hardcourt slams.

    Then he came for my slam record --
    and it was too late for me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
    #59
  10. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    The question seems arbitrary. Why not ask whether Feds slams record will be threatened if nadal wins 5 more slams?
     
    #60
  11. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Because that question answers itself, and because the next 2 slams are around the corner and Nadal actually stands a chance of winning (not a great chance, but a reasonably good one).
     
    #61
  12. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Didn't read every post but this thread is premature. I like to debate after he actually win both slams. Who knows, he might not even win either one of them.
     
    #62
  13. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Of course, even if he doesn't win either this year (which is unlikely given how big of a favourite he's for the FO atleast) he's still a threat, just like it was for Fed and him chasing Pete's slam record before, until Nadal hangs his racquet Fed's slam record isn't safe (that said, I wouldn't count out Fed from adding to his slam tally until he hangs his racquet either).
     
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  14. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    I'd say no, but Sampras will be. The intersting thing is that if he channel slams it this year (highly unlikely), he'll be on Fed's pace--the year Fed turned 27 he finished with 13 slams.
     
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  15. Readers

    Readers Semi-Pro

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    No, the title ask will Federer's recrod be threatened, the poll asks will Nadal win 17 slams.

    You are the one need to read your own words again, if Nadal wins 4 slams after that, it's not just matter of in danger, Nadal would already be sharing the record with him.

    Also, your title is about probability, IMO even if Nadal wins 2 more, the chance of him getting 4 more after isn't that great, so Federer is not threatened, but your poll ask a black and white question, which is Nadal will or will not able to get 17 slams.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
    #65
  16. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Nads hasn't won a non-clay slam in 3 years. Only way he can win the next two is if he's juicing.
     
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  17. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Yes.

    But I think the bigger point to me is as long as Ralph is the favourite for RG, he'll always have a shot at Fed's slam count. The day Ralph isn't a contender for RG, that'll mark the end of his chase imo.

    Since 2005, 9 years on he's STILL the firm favourite for RG. Unfugginbelievable. But all good(read bad) things come to an end and this will too.
     
    #67
  18. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    He sure hasn't been seeded #1 consecutively in that time. If he's still able to do this, all these years later, chasing down all those shots from 7-12' behindnthe baseline, his stamina truly rivals Contador's.
     
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  19. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Assumptions

    It would actually be 5 more to break the record 13+5=18, 4 more to equal it. Also it is making a very big assumption. Which is? That Federer is done adding to his total.

    I have wondered what is the figure Federer would have to clock to be out of reach of Nadal - I am thinking 19.

    So Nadal could potentially pass it. It won't be easy.....but also Federer may move the goal posts.
     
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  20. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    It's the same thing. I seriously don't understand your objection. There is no contradiction in the poll. If Nadal gets to 17, like you said, Fed's record wouldn't be his own anymore. I'm asking if it's possible for Nadal to get to 17 slams (in other words, would Fed's slam record be threatened).
     
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  21. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    <SEMITROLL MODE>
    Yes, this is correct. I think if Nadal matches the slam record, his superior Masters resumee and the H2H would take care of the rest (regardless of "real slam" Cincy and WTF deficiencies).
    </SEMITROLL MODE>
     
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  22. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Yea I suppose for the hardcore **** like yourself,Wolfy, the H2H covers for his measly weeks at #1 record too. Keep telling yourself that, even after clocking 11 slams he's still not considered a tier 1 great, but Borg with the same slam count is. LOL

    So to summarise for the hardcore ****, the H2H covers the following deficits:

    1)Weeks at #1
    2) WTFs
    3)Year end #1
    4) Being a no show mostly after Wimby,well being a no-show in the non-clay season almost.
    5)7/11 slams being on clay given that only 1 slam is played on clay as opposed to 3 non-clay surfaces. Can you say CLAY SKEW?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
    #72
  23. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Of course Borg is a Tier 1 Great. But so is Nadal (although I wouldn't put Nadal ahead of Borg, even to this day). Heck, I wouldn't put Fed ahead of Borg, who retired way before his time, and got 3 Channel Slams when the surfaces were absolutely different.

    But, why wouldn't Nadal be a Tier 1 Great? Rationalize it. Did the ATP come up with an official list, or did you get that in Aphex's Official Newsletter? :)

    EDIT: I see you edited your post in a febrile attempt to concoct a neat shopping list of reasons why Fed is so superior to Nadal. The thing is that, if I had 25 cents for every quarter I've bet Fed would win against Nadal in a slam final, I would probably break even. Think about that, chief. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
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  24. monfed

    monfed Guest


    1)Measly weeks at#1 given that most tier-1 greats(Sampras,Laver,Borg,Federer) have an extended period of domination(as opposed to Ralph who racks up all his points in the clay season and is a no-show in the rest of the season).

    2)Weak non-clay resume, 7/11 slams on clay when there's only one slam on it indicating massive clay skew/one-dimensional. His second best slam has got him only 2 slams. Borg had 5 Wimby,6 RG, Fed has 5 USO,7 Wimbys,4 AO, Pete got 7 Wimby and 5 USOs..you get the point i think...

    3)0 YEC/WTFs. Very very poor for a tier-1 great.

    4)Only 2 YE#1. Very poor for a tier-1 great.

    5) Still viewed by a lot of tennis pundits to be a clay specialist,not good for a tier-1 great to be stereotyped like that even after winning 11 freakin slams.

    BTW,no need to bring up Fed,this is about Ralph. Fed has done enough to surpass Borg by now.
     
    #74
  25. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Is this a contest to say the least with the greatest number of words?

    1. Nadal has won against Federer in slam finals on all surfaces (clay, grass, and HC). Whereas Fed has only won against Nadal in Wimbledon.
    2. Ask Fed (the most versatile, touched by the hand of God, sublime, all court, angelic playa evah) how it feels to be dominated by a clay court unidimensional wonder like Nadal.
    3. Don't make me laugh. Borg was the best in very slow and very fast natural surfaces. He has 3 Channel Slams when the surfaces were polar opposites. Fed had to wait for Nadal to be absent to get his solitary French Open.
     
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  26. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I disagree with both of you. Nadal and Borg should belong in the same tier great but behind Federer by one full tier. To say Fed is on the same tier with them is like saying Agassi or JMac are on the same tier as Nadal/Borg.
     
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  27. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Very good example of how to exaggerate and distort facts. Here's some perspective for you then why not -

    Ralph led Fed 8-6 in the H2H at the end of 2007 and Fed's prime,not exactly a chasm. The slam count was 3-2 in favour of Ralph,3 of those wins were in RG and Ralph winning zilch in non-clay slams against Fed. Ralph was an absentee in the USO, mugging out early thereby never giving Fed a shot of equalling/leading the H2H where Fed was probably at his devastating best,arguably even better than Wimby. Actually in one of the USO finals,he was called God by one of the commies.

    Padding up the H2H on clay and not showing up on your opponent's best turf is one way of making sure the H2H stays in Ralph's favour and this isn't against Fed alone, he's done this with Djokovic and others too. Davydenko btw owns Ralph badly on HC , any thoughts on that,chief?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
    #77
  28. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    YouCan'tBeSerious.
     
    #78
  29. PureTennis

    PureTennis Guest

    Nadal's mission in life is to surpass Federer's slam record. He believes he can do it and he probably will. He wants to be GOAT.
     
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  30. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Not Fed's fault that Ralph never showed up at USO in Fed's prime,Fed's second most dominant slam. Slow HC doesn't count for me, sorry.

    If Ralph dominated Fed, how come he has less slams than Fed, less no of weeks at #1(actually 102 is almost a joke compared to 302), measly YE#1(only 2 LOL) and Fed leads him in 3 of the 4 slams and by a big margin. Ralph only has the OG but historically OG has no real prestige when it comes to tennis anyway.

    Actually since 2005(since Ralph won his first slam), Fed still won more slams than Ralph. LMAO


    Fed has made atleast 5 finals at every slam. Beat Pete at his own game on FAST GRASS. Won Wimby 03 by mostly S&Ving. Won on blue clay,when your mancrush Ralph mugged out. He was only stopped by Ralph at RG, otherwise he'd have god knows how many channel slams and probably 2 calendar slams,consecutive actually. Fed has proved his mettle on fast and slow surfaces,actually he's the most versatile player in history so yea he's surpassed Borg in that respect.


    Just like Ralph had to get a joke of a draw at USO 2010. Defending champion DelPotro(who utterly destroyed Ralph in 09 btw) didn't play, Fed was completely out of prime, played mentally exhausted Djokovic in the final(who was just happy to be there).

    And Fed was more deserving of RG since he made 4/5 finals before he got a little luck in 09,well deserved,as opposed to Ralph who won USO in his first final. Roger's goal was to win RG which he did, not to beat Ralph at RG,that's something you Nards like to make up.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
    #80
  31. serengetisunset

    serengetisunset Rookie

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    People seem to write off Nadal rather too easily but I think he still has plenty of upside. He and his uncle might cry a river about his "career ending" injury but the dude is tough like a truck with plenty of miles left. He can win 2-3 more French opens easily and if the draw works in his favor, a couple of other slams too. So yeah, Fed's record is not "safe".
     
    #81
  32. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    TheLoneWolf too. He's had multiple accounts on here. He gets banned and then just comes right back again.
     
    #82
  33. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Absolutely agree. I also think the 7 month hiatus was a strategic decision to provide for maximum physical regeneration.
     
    #83
  34. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I caught that one when you said TLW. Wasn't quite getting it when people called him wolfie.
     
    #84
  35. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    I am ignoring that person you are responding to. I've been trying to behave in as civil a manner as I can, but this person keeps accusing me and stalking me. And, has nothing to contribute but the usual drone this person is known for.

    That's all I'm going to say. Ignorance can be bliss.
     
    #85
  36. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    But we'll soon crack you into posting deranged pictures of Jack Nicholson like you always do.
     
    #86
  37. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Nadal competed in the 2009 French Open final

    Nadal wasn't absent. Check the record - Nadal competed in the 2009 French Open. Hardly Federer's fault that Nadal couldn't make the final.

    re. points 1 & 2 - H2H is a much more minor indicator than career Achievement. How can Nadal be better than Federer in terms of greatness if he has many less achievement in 4 out of 5 of the top 5 titles ie 1/4 of the Australian Opens, 2/7th of the Wimbledon's, 1/5th of the US Opens, 0/6 of the WTF's. H2H in no way trumps career achievement. Otherwise it would produce an absolute bizarre situation where a player with a solid but relatively much poorer record in 4 out of 5 of the top 5 tournaments is regarded as superior.
     
    #87
  38. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    Nadal is not done yet, so if he manages to go over the 17 slam count that Federer now has (assuming Federer doesn't add more slams), and if he adds at least 1 more Wimbledon and at least 1 more HC slam, how can you argue against him not having superior results?

    Federer seems to have been naturally more gifted for tennis outside clay, no doubt about that. But the fact Nadal could win in all surfaces and have a positive H2H in slam finals against Federer in all surfaces but 1 must count for something as well.
     
    #88
  39. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Ok let's take your numbers then. So Ralph ends with:

    AO -2 , RG - 12, Wimby - 3, USO - 1

    That's still a very unbalanced resume and Fed still leads him in 3/4 slams, so how's Ralph better? :-?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
    #89
  40. IgnatusP

    IgnatusP Banned

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    So now you are itemizing per slam? Please...

    Another fact you conveniently ignore is the homogeneization of surfaces. If you think multiple titles in one slam are less valuable than a more evently distributed number of titles in multiple slams, wouldn't titles achieved when the surfaces were truly different be worth much more? What factor should we multiply Borg's slam titles to account for that? Not to mention the fact that Borg didn't even compete in the AO, since it wasn't a very popular event back in his day.

    As you can see, if we enter that relativization zone things can get dangerous very fast for your hero.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
    #90
  41. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    At the least, I could see him beating Sampras's total.
     
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  42. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    I find four slams to be a bit of a stretch for Nadal even if he wins RG and Wimbledon this year.
     
    #92
  43. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    the more slams you win, more difficult it becomes to win more

    sampras seconnd last slams was 2000 wimbledon and last one was 2002 us open

    federer second last slam was 2010 australian and last one was 2012 wimbelodn
     
    #93
  44. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Wonder what happens to the whole discussion if Rafa wins another AO and USO. That way he'll have a double career slam...
     
    #94
  45. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    This. Nadal's various "career threatening injuries" and time off notwithstanding,
    I don't see Nadal retiring anytime in the next five years, given that there are no challengers to him anywhere in sight. He just has to wait for Djokovic's level to fall off (it has already fallen considerably) or wait for him to have a bad day at slams.
     
    #95
  46. VAMOSDNA

    VAMOSDNA Banned

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    Good luck beating Nadal a Roland Garros at any age.
     
    #96
  47. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    I like your honesty. Most Nadal fans are still not ready to accept that.
     
    #97
  48. VAMOSDNA

    VAMOSDNA Banned

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    Yes that's what Nadal indicated in September last year. He said he was not going to play unless he is 100% because if he plays at less than 100% then it doesn't solve the problem. The 7 months off was to solve the problem (tendon damage) for the long-term.
     
    #98
  49. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    No way. He has to prove that he can still win a major off clay. Otherwise I don't see him winning RG every year until he's 32.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
    #99
  50. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    Are you a doctor?
     

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