If you blame Azarenka, You need to blame Rafa as well

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Magnus, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Seriously, stop the double standards. Nadal has started the whole fake injury fiasco and did it time after time against multiple opponents. Its how he won Wimbledon 2010, its how he won Hamburg 2008, FO11, etc.

    The guy has used those tactics to his advantage many, many times. Since it was proved so succsesful other players have started embracing it and now we have a sport full of cheaters, both in ATP and WTA. Azarenka is just another cheater.
     
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  2. FedererDropShot

    FedererDropShot Hall of Fame

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    lol.

    10chars.
     
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  3. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Everybody takes MTOs. Blame Li Na. She took 2 MTOs, one of them in the middle of Aza's service game. It takes some nerves to complain about Vika after that.
     
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  4. FedererDropShot

    FedererDropShot Hall of Fame

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    Li Na took legit MTOs.

    And don't try to BS that they weren't legit.
     
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  5. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    If the issue is that it throws the opponent off rhythm, it will do so whether you estimate it's legit or not and it will definitely be worse in the middle of a game. There is no way to evaluate whether breathing issues are more or less legitimate than a bump on the head. It's 100% subjective.
     
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  6. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    You're weird. :lol:
     
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  7. PhrygianDominant

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    Except when the person completely admits to taking and MTO because she was choking in an on court interview, then changes the story afterwards in her presser.

    At least Nadal remembers the lies he tells, and when to tell them.
     
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  8. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    She didn't admit that. She said she couldn't breathe. The match video shows that it's exactly what she told the trainer.
     
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  9. Sri

    Sri New User

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    Did you miss the part where she fell and her head crashed with the hardcourt surface?
     
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  10. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    That could also be blamed on bad conditioning. It's a player's responsibility to be fit and ready for a match. (Or to wear appropriate sneakers, lol).
     
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  11. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    No it's not. Azarenka and Nadal are absolute proven cheats. Azarenka the biggest one of all. She lied about having an injury. It wasn't subjective at all. But then again, those who defend Azarenka demonstrate that they cheat themselves, and they think it's alright.
     
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  12. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    So Azarenka wasn't in condition, after only 80 minutes of play?

    As opposed to Li Na running and turning her ankle, twice?
     
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  13. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Azarenka didn't fall.
     
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  14. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Repeating the same unfounded accusation a thousand times doesn't make it any more true
     
    #14
  15. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Kinda like Armstrong denying the same accusation that he cheated a thousand times! Didn't make his lies become the truth!
     
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  16. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    I blame Rafa too no doubt.
     
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  17. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Your cynical attitude is nothing short of disgusting. Even more so, considering the fact, that you find an excuse for the questionable (at best) behaviour of your favourite tennis player, when it comes to MTOs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
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  18. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    To be honest, while I like Li Na and was rooting for her, I couldn't shake the feeling that if she was really that hurt, she should have stopped playing. If its not career-threatning injury, she should not be able to get treatment and just move on. Those MTOs have become a joke. Players are now using them as a bonus rather than a real treatment to a problem. It:

    a) Gives them a nice treatment
    b) Stops the opponent's momentum and annoys them
    c) allows them to get a breather

    Nadal started the fiasco, and now its out of control.
     
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  19. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    You are talking about Nads, are ya ? I thought he was very fit.
     
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  20. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Tell that to your hypocrite idol Rafa. You were using excuses such as "he was tired" or "he was injured" or my personal favorite "he had a stomach virus" NONSTOP when he was losing. Seriously, do you read what you write? There is ZERO sync between your posts.
     
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  21. NadalDramaQueen

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    I would just like to point out that, in anticipation of this thread and general idea, you handled the whole Azarenka incident well in order to avoid any hypocrisy. Hats off to you, sir. :)

    Not that it took any extraordinary foresight...
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
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  22. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Makes her even more hypocrite imo.
     
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  23. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Let's be honest here, every player that takes a shady MTO has learned it from Nadal.
     
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  24. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    He wrote the book "cheating with mto's for dummies"
     
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  25. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    lol, there are 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    threads about nadals "fake injuries".
     
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  26. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    ::blink:::


    thats twice today we agree.

    Damn..maybe the mayans were right?
     
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  27. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    But I blame Nadal. He is a dirty cheater.
     
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  28. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Good to see you acknowldege he did that. And yet you are his fan. What does that say about you as a person? :shock:
     
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  29. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Of course I blame them both. We've seen Nadal do it more then a few times.
     
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  30. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    LOL that you even compare the two. Li Na had visibly turned her ankle, both times. Vika not only had no visible injury, but later admitted that she was just succumbing to nerves. Your bias is so strong. You are desperate to not acknowledge that Nadal has used MTOs in an unsporting fashion.
     
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  31. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    I agree. Its all bout throwing people off rhythm and it traces back to McEnroe and his predecessors Im sure. Anything to gain an edge when margins are thin.
     
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  32. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    This.

    And Nadal will continue doing so and his cheater fans will keep cheering for it.
     
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  33. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    The timing, the essence, and what happens in the match are more than enough evidence to see if its legit or not. Li Na, for example, fell quite a few times and she needed medical treatment (and I still don't justify her taking it!). Azarenka took it to get a breather and for her opponent to get annoyed, it is clear by the timing, the fact she wasn't injured during the match, and how she played after.

    With Li Na, she couldn't play well after the MTOs, it was clear she was injured, she didn't mvoe well, she could not sustain any sort of solid game to really threaten Vika. As for Nadal, just watch Wimbledon 2010, round 3 match, Nadal was so stressed, he seriously considered he's going to lose the match, and needed to throw his opponent off rhythm as well as getting a breather. He took an MTO (for an injury nobody saw happen during the match) and then was running like a rabbit, hitting winners, annoying his opponent who loste his focus, and his serve, and eventually the match. What Nadal did belongs in soccer, not in tennis, he should have been called out for it by interviewers and tennis officials and he wasn't. I'd let it go if it was the only example but its hardly the only one.
     
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  34. Jay_The_Nomad

    Jay_The_Nomad Professional

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    That is such an ignorant statement.

    This bump on the head is not just a bump. The main concern is that Li Na could have suffered a concussion (I.e. injury to her brain). The danger is that if she did indeed suffer a concussion from the first fall, if she were to fall and sustain trauma to her neck or brain, this second concussion could potentially lead to sudden death.
     
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  35. Jay_The_Nomad

    Jay_The_Nomad Professional

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    The medical time outs are there to assess if the player is fit enough to continue playing and whether if they continue the match they put themselves at risk of causing serious damage.

    If the injury is minor enough, they get taped up to minimize movement (as a precaution) and off they go so the spectators have a match to watch. Minor injuries does not mean you can't compete. It just means your injured body part is now weakened and even more susceptible to damage. So you need taping to protect it.

    That is the intended purpose of MTOs. But just because MTOs are being exploited does not mean it should be scrapped.

    I just think there should be more stringent supervision of MTOs. For example, you should not be able to have an MTO for cramps. If you got a cramp you shouldn't be able to ask the trainer to come out and massage you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #35
  36. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    If an injury is not severe yet the player, according to your definition, still deserves an MTO, he should at least get it only at the end of sets. The way it is now - you can just take it whenever you want, and you can take it on whatever excuse you come up with. Look at Azarenka, look at Nadal, one could argue they won their respective matches (the ones I was mentioning in previous posts) thanks to exploiting the rules and using the MTOs for reasons that have nothing to do with injuries. They should come up with a solution for this, same way they should enforce the time between points rule, yet I haven't seen them do that in the AO.
     
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  37. Jay_The_Nomad

    Jay_The_Nomad Professional

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    I think MTOs at the end of a set is not practical or ideal.

    Its better to have MTOs on the injured player's serve.
     
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  38. Alchemy-Z

    Alchemy-Z Professional

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    Just make it where a MTO exceeding 5 min grants the opposing player the next point.

    So if you just got broken and take a MTO over 5min when your opponent starts serving they begin in the add court with 15-0
     
    #38
  39. always_crosscourt

    always_crosscourt Banned

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    Not sure what your point is, OP?

    We blame them both already.
     
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  40. Tennis_Hands

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    Veroniquem is a unique poster.

    No moral and knowledge of the game whatsoever (well, except for the one, gained here) which is visible in her contribution in threads like this. Saying something completely dumb and disrespectful, and, when called on it, stops posting untill it is forgotten.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  41. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You're completely blind if you believe Li's MTO was a fake. She hit her head on court !!!!!!!!

    How do you like it if you fall and hit your head on the cement?
    Have some consciousness.
     
    #41
  42. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Alas there will always be cheaters in the game like Nadal and now the newly anointed cheat queen Azarenka. But what you gonna do? Just have to live with it, Fed does. And MTOs are probably not even Nadal's biggest 3-letter acronym infraction.
     
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  43. Vanhool

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    Pretty sure this person was being sarcastic. He or she was just exposing how hateful some of the Vika-bashers are by using their own logic. Obviously Na was injured, but if you have an agenda you can twist facts to justify any opinion. The doctor confirmed Vika's injuries, and he was actually there. People should just get over it.
     
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  44. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't sound sarcastic to me.

    At all.
     
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  45. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    She didn't seem to suffer either. She was laughing her head off when they did the finger test on her eyes (I don't blame her, most hilarious thing I've ever seen during a match). I'm glad she was fine of course, I wouldn't wish anyone any harm but that is not my point at all. My point was that the reason for the MTO is completely irrelevant in terms of hurting the opponent's rhythm and the worst moment for the MTO to happen is in the middle of the opponent's service game, which is what happened in the final. Big deal. Players have to handle that kind of stuff, it's their job. There is never a case where you could blame the final result on it. The rule says you're allowed an MTO. The rule doesn't say you have to PROVE the MTO was absolutely necessary. And that is not something up to the spectators to determine. If a player went so far as to take an MTO for no reason whatsoever, then it would be up to the doctor, trainer, ump or whatever other official to call it out. It is certainly not up to the spectator to pass that judgement. And regardless of the degree to which the MTO was vital (which is impossible for us to determine), the impact on the opponent is gonna be the same, so the opponent had better be able to cope with it, regardless of the justification for it.
    My other point was that they filmed her conversation with the trainer before the time out, so when she said she couldn't breathe, she wasn't making up something after the fact because I can see with my own eyes that's what she told the trainer during the match. To what extent the breathing issues were a serious problem? How should I know? I'm not a doctor/trainer and neither are you but if the AO doctor diagnoses that there is an issue with a rib, I fail to see what kind of insider info a message board poster has to categorically counter that statement. Could the 105 degree temperature have contributed to breathing problems? Maybe not, maybe it was just nerves but nobody can say it would be impossible either.
    In a court of law, you do not sentence a person on presumptions. (ever heard the expression "beyond a reasonable doubt"?) And yet that's what you're doing with Azarenka, based on irrational hatred and not much else.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  46. CCNM

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    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Good one!!! I'm sure the locker rooms at big-name tennis tournaments are like the ones for basketball & hockey-with weights, exercise machines, heat and ice packs, etc. And I would think that players would use them if necessary to treat themselves so they wouldn't have to stop in the middle of a match. (Hope that makes sense)
     
    #46
  47. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Conditioning problems are not an injury. Concussion is.

    Now, stop that nonsense.
     
    #47
  48. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    So are we just supposed to ignore all the evidence? Multiple players have spoken up about Nadal taking dubious MTOs. A simple google search will reveal this to you.
     
    #48
  49. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    To blame Rafa you dont need to have a reference other than common sense.
     
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  50. TTMR

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    Good to know Federer's 2012 Wimbledon now comes with an asterik too, given he took an MTO against Malisse.

    Right?
     
    #50

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