If you've already lost 6 times, why not lose 7?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by CMM, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    Rafa gave an interview to a Spanish television and when the woman asked him about confidence and his feelings before/during the AO final, what does he say?

    "Losing 6 finals in a row gives you a feeling of calmness. You know the normal thing is for this to happen again. If you've already lost 6, why not lose the seventh?

    What kind of attitude is that? :shock: :( I think he's got big confidence problems.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1
  2. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,229
    #2
  3. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    A feeling of calmness? He should be ready to fight! He's basically waiting for the eighth. That's not the Nadal we've come to know.
     
    #3
  4. single_handed_champion

    single_handed_champion Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,104
    Ya, that really blows. He's a mental wreck, big time. Say that fate has conspired to make you play poorly each of 6 times in a row, that someone's been messing with the tension in your rackets, anything but this.

    He may never beat the guy again if he's already lost the match in his head.
     
    #4
  5. EnigmaticPragmatic

    EnigmaticPragmatic Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Where static continues to disturb
    This last year has been pure agony as a hardcore *******... and now he basically shrugs his shoulders and admits defeat. Cmon man, fight the Serbian tree :|

    And if you have lost 7, why not lose 8? gahh Nadal what are you THINKING
     
    #5
  6. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686

    His career has been plagued by the bolded,and has cost him a lot of matches he should have won. I also think he knows he hasn't got the game to beat Djesus anyway,so he is throwing up his hands in defeat. Nadal is not 20 anymore,and is in decline. As long as Djesus is across the net from him he will lose each and every single time.
     
    #6
  7. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,202
    going for his defense for a second,
    he DID give his life at the AO final..no?
    or maybe that's how HE sees giving up?
     
    #7
  8. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,103
    Location:
    Toronto
    Why can't Djokovic have a bad day or throw Nadal a bone in one of the MS events.
     
    #8
  9. EnigmaticPragmatic

    EnigmaticPragmatic Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Where static continues to disturb
    Before April of last year, I'd have said it'll be different the next time they play. Then you start comforting yourself in figuring he'd work something out eventually. 7 consecutive finals defeats later, I can only say that *maybe* it will be different next time.
     
    #9
  10. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,426
    LOL..are you kidding. That was a great comment by Rafa. That is one of the reasons I admire Nadal. He speaks his mind.

    He means there is NOTHING To lose when you're expecting to lose anyway. Which is why subsequent losses are not such a big shock for him and he can play his tennis freely.

    This is the only mindset that may help him. Whether it's enough to beat Djoko remains to be seen. But Nadal won't retire or something if he loses RG to Djoko, as people over here claim. Rafa knows he's the heavy underdog.

    Let's hope he throws caution to the wind and swings for the fences next time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
    #10
  11. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    The point Nadal is trying to make is that he's at the point now where he's past panicking about losing to Djokovic in big matches, like he was in 2011, and that he now has that necessary calmness that is needed.

    Nadal likes being the underdog or creating the underdog mentality in his mind. He always has done. He likes to start at zero and fight hard to achieve. Other players have different mental approaches and see themselves as favourite and like to be the favourite. For Nadal, that just creates pressure.
     
    #11
  12. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    I don't necessarily agree here.

    While Nadal feels like he can relax, Djokovic is currently dead set on beating Nadal and possibly surpassing him. Nadal cannot play a player that ambitious and that dedicated to winning with relaxed mindset. I think this is what happened to Federer when he faced Nadal, and now the same is happening with Nadal against Djokovic.
     
    #12
  13. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    I'm just worried that he might reach the point where the defeats don't bother him anymore.
    He already said that he was happy to be part of such an epic final.
     
    #13
  14. monfed

    monfed Guest

    There goes that theory of Ralph closing the gap. :lol:
     
    #14
  15. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    Remember Federer after the 2008 Wimbledon final? He didn't care that he was part of the greatest match in tennis history. All he cared for was that he lost. That's it. Nadal needs to realize the same.
     
    #15
  16. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,460
    To be honest I think of nadal as a guy who's won a lot of matches he should have lost. The amount of times I've seen him somehow pull out a win when he looked out of it, it's something you have to respect. Rome 2005, 2006, Mardid 2009 against Djokovic, the olympic semi vs Djokovic, the AO semi vs Verdasco (ok maybe he could have lost it rather than should have lost)

    But now some are going against him. I think though the attitude he's showing now could either mean he no longer has any fight, or that he has no pressure on himself and he can swing freely. I don't think te AO final shows he has no fight, he looked ready to die on court. But it didn't show he had no pressure on him either. So I'm not sure if he isn't just giving an answer to delect difficult questions regarding a losing streak which must be a bit embarrassing.
     
    #16
  17. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Federer has a different mindset to Nadal, though. Federer likes people to think he is the favourite and he likes to think he's the world's best player. Nadal likes to be the underdog, take nothing for granted and try his best every point. Also, the 2008 Wimbledon final was the first big step Nadal made in breaking the Federer stronghold. Nadal has lost to Djokovic 7 times in a row, so we're now past the point where Djokovic has just taken over from Nadal.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
    #17
  18. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    That's true. But Nadal still holds his stronghold (RG), so for now, Nadal should still feel confident. Federer, even after losing his stronghold in one of the most amazing matches in history, was determined to win and didn't care about being a part of that match. I'm saying that Nadal should feel the same determination.
     
    #18
  19. niff

    niff Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Henman Hill
    That's ..... weird.
     
    #19
  20. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Except that Nadal was never the underdog against Fed after Wimby 2008 when he had his most success.

    Underdog against Novak? More like lapdog. :lol:
     
    #20
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Oh, I'm sure Nadal is determined to win the French Open. The difference with Federer, though, is that Nadal will play down his chances when speaking about it and talk up Djokovic's chances, how Djokovic is unbelievable, world number 1, the favourite etc. and that he (Nadal) will have to play his very best to beat Djokovic. Federer's approach would have been different, as he would have talked about how confident he is, playing very well and that he wants the title. If Nadal did that, he would just be putting pressure on himself. They have different mindsets.
     
    #21
  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Forgot the 2009 Australian Open, have we? :lol:
     
    #22
  23. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,446
    well nadal has always fared well with that mindset especially against federer. i dont think he will be quick to change it
     
    #23
  24. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,460
    Anyone who really thought Nadal was the underdog was fooling themselves. After W2008 he was never going to lose to Federer in a slam again and as of now, this statement holds true.
     
    #24
  25. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    That's nonsense. Everyone was talking about Nadal having just 1 day's rest and had a marathon 5 hour, 14 minute match against Verdasco in his semi final. In contrast, Federer, after a R16 scare against Berdych where he came back from 2 sets down, had crushed del Potro in the quarter finals (double bagel), and had comfortably straight-setted Roddick in the semi finals. Federer also had 2 days rest before the final.
     
    #25
  26. celoft

    celoft Guest

    No problema. He knows many more losses are coming up this year. We could see a Federer-Hewitt scenario. :lol: That H2H will look very lopsided pretty soon.
     
    #26
  27. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    Funny how much that situation resembles to what happened this year.
     
    #27
  28. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    Exactly right. In other words Fed is honest and Nadal is a liar. 'Play' being the keyword.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
    #28
  29. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,039
    Nadal is not being honest. He implies that losing again isn't much of a big deal, but deep down inside he knows that losing again can only add more wound. The only healing process is to get back on his feet and win. He can pretend that he's calm, but he ain't fooling anyone !

    Roddick was constantly losing to Fed, despite it was a normal thing for many years, Roddick was devastated when he lost to Fed in 2009 Wimbledon. Nadal is no different from any competitive player.
     
    #29
  30. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Nadal had tough matches himself, though, against Berdych and Federer. In 2009, Federer just routinely beat del Potro and Roddick.
     
    #30
  31. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,552
    That's partial nonsense only. Everyone knew that the semi against Verdasco wouldn't be a factor (and wouldn't have been even if it had lasted 15 hours). However, Federer was still expected to win, and he should have (and fairly comfortably, too) had not the specter of the Wimbledon final messed with his mind.

    Likewise, he should have won Wimby 2008, and would very probably have done so (his first two sets were just awful) had he not taken such a drubbing in the RG final.

    In the end, this RG final was nothing short of a minor miracle, considering how mono has messed with his preparation, and he would have been better served had he lost to Monfils in the semis. That victory may very well have cost him two slams against Nadal, but of course, we'll never know... ;)
     
    #31
  32. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,039
    Who was the #1 player at that time ?

    And have we forgot that Nadal has a huge matchup advantage, have we ?
     
    #32
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Yet Federer was considered the favourite. Funny that.
     
    #33
  34. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,173
    He is playing the former Phillies shortstop?
     
    #34
  35. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    19,099
    Location:
    Relax folks, ...
    Personally, I think Nadal has been misunderstood here. I think what he is saying is that losing has become the standard, so he has no demons in his mind while playing him and no real pressure and can just focus 100% on trying his absolute best with no mental blocks, and beat El Nolio. I don't think he's trying to marginalise his losses, I just think he's trying to further justify why he can bring it to Nole again and again, and go for the victory. It's just a weird way of doing it, though.

    PS, Nadal's mindset is pretty much the one I hate most in the history of all sports. His whole 'he is the favourite' malarkey just really rubs me up more than just the wrong way (not the right way). How some people find this admirable, I have absolutely *no* idea.
     
    #35
  36. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    484
    All he means is that he becomes the underdog, so he can play without pressure or with calmness, whichever you prefer. Don't take every utterance so literally.
     
    #36
  37. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    19,099
    Location:
    Relax folks, ...
    Federer was rightly the favourite for the AO 2009 Final. He had already won a bunch of HC Slam titles and yet it was Nadal's first ever HC Slam final. Nadal's victory over Federer in Wimbledon 08 had some precedence, but the AO 2009 victory - not so much.
     
    #37
  38. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    19,099
    Location:
    Relax folks, ...
    Yeh, exactly.
     
    #38
  39. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,552
    Yeah, well. Except if you listen to him, Nadal is *always* the underdog, even when playing Lacko or Darcis at RG... ;)
     
    #39
  40. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    He was relying on Djokovic to wilt and break down. It didn't happen. It's what drove Nadal to fight so hard. It was a battle of wills, not skills.
    Nadal blinked first at crunch time. It determined who is superior today between the two in every aspect of the sport.
     
    #40
  41. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Nadal always knew Federer was scared of him. Nadal's not an idiot.
     
    #41
  42. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    You pin the blame on Nadal for his defeatist attitude. Why not put the blame on his trainer Tio Toni???
    He was the one who openly said "We have no answers for Djokovic!"
    Nadal needs to be done with this guy now.
     
    #42
  43. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Although I don't think it's normal for a player to look this happy after losing such a grueling final.

    [​IMG]
     
    #43
  44. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,948
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    Exactly. Part of why he got smoked last year is bc he was PANICKING and thinking oh sh*t im losing, and im SUPPOSED to be beating this guy. That pressure is gone now, as we saw in the AO final and it's a good thing for him, not a bad thing.
     
    #44
  45. msc886

    msc886 Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    As I've said before the "fight" and "mental toughness" is an easy thing to claim when he's in his prime but now things get uphill and where is his mental toughness. Even Federer in his 30's is still fighting despite being way past his best and struggling to keep up with the young guns.
     
    #45
  46. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Keep trying to convince yourself that everything is ok. :lol:
     
    #46
  47. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,426
    Who says everything is ok. Of course it isn't.

    What Nadal is saying that he will keep trying and won't be under a lot of pressure when he plays Djoko coz you're expecting to lose anyway. That's actually a good thing for some people. It doesn't decrease your determination to win, just puts less pressure on you in terms of expectations.

    What is guaranteed is that Nadal won't play a tame final with Novak again as he did in Wimb 2011. He was so nervous in that match, because he was expecting himself to win. Consequently he panicked repeatedly and lost badly.
     
    #47
  48. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,828
    So, he is not as mentally strong as before, his serve is not as big as before, he can no longer hunt down each and every ball like he used to, and how are the rest of his stats?

     
    #48
  49. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,948
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    [​IMG]
     
    #49
  50. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    Philadelphia, United States
    When was it ever?

    He was serving very well in the AO final. Won a lot of free points on his serve. It's just that when it wasn't an outright great serve, Djokovic got it back with interest.
     
    #50

Share This Page