Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Cindysphinx, Jun 5, 2012.
I have terrible tardy issues
Big dogs dont care about rules, champ......
Its like 'in one ear, and out the next'
Rules only apply to those that are weak enough to allow them to be enforced
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I have never seen that rule enforced. I have seen people just not have the opportunity to warm up. If players on your team had to be somewhere its one thing, but if not its only 15 min and things happen. I probably wouldnt want to take the penalty, but who knows. I bet my team would want to enforce the rules in the playoffs though.
Well....Im kind of in the middle......
I don't follow each and every rule as they are constituted......some times you have to do things your way. Im not talking acts of crime.....just everyday situations....
But I also dont like those that try and take advantake of you to where it is blatant disrespect.
I will say.....I know for sure that at States, they do follow the guideline to a T. If you are x amount of minutes late forfeit. We lost a court this season as well because one of our guys got lost,
/* mini hijack coming */
How the heck does your team that only won one match all season...make the flight playoffs? Why bother with the regular season at all? But I guess, it's no different than ACC basketball...where they beat each other's brains out, um, sell ($$) tickets to two regular season games, for the privilege of getting some sort of seed at a tournament...that the winner of, is guaranteed play at the next level.
Ok, I guess. Just ain't the way we do it down here. We used to have "City" playoffs, mostly because we had so many flights and so few District slots. But then USTA got wise, increased the slots and their revenues and, now, flight winners are generally granted the 'Pass Go, Pay $200' route directly to Districts. Kinda like that though, from the first serve of the first match of the season, you know what you've gotta do: Win your flight and win as many lines as you can while losing as few sets & games as you can. It does, sometimes, come down to that. Last year, one team prevailed by losing 2 less sets over a minimum of 100 sets played. It's all the incentive you need to try to win a set, even if you lose the match.
/* end hijack */
Important people always arrive late
But people who always arrive late may or may not be important
If I were queen of the world, teams like ours would not be in the playoffs at all.
The league format was announced at the beginning. Remember, I am not the captain of this team, so everything I am about to say is just me piecing things together.
There are 8 teams. I believe the format is you play around once. Then the season results are used to group the teams into two flights of four. These subflights play a round robin, and then the flight winners play each other for the right to go to Districts.
This format is used when there aren't enough teams to give everyone as many team matches as they would like. I get that.
Still, it is a terrible system, IMHO. The regular season is meaningless. All it takes is one fluke (say, a team arriving late) to badly skew the results.
And if that isn't enough to make your hair stand on end, AQ, get this. Last year, this same format was used for 7.0 mixed -- the regular season was meaningless because everyone advanced to the flight playoffs. Some teams got a bye. **The byes were not given to the top teams. Instead, the byes were given randomly.** That is totally lame. Sheez, shouldn't winning the regular season count for something?
Anyway . . .
Don't give me a hard time, folks. I was not even the captain of this team, so I felt it wasn't my decision to disregard the rules when the team members wanted to enforce them. I did try to call the team captain to see how she wanted to handle it, but she was unavailable.
That said, I probably would have enforced the rules pretty much in the fashion I did had I been the captain. Just tonight, one of my singles players arrived 16 minutes after match time. The other team defaulted her (as they should). That's the norm around here -- if you are an eyelash late, people penalize you or default you. Happens all the time.
That's OK -- we won the team match anyway.
The team is only one well timed FAA national air flight ban or massive no-fly list glitch from being national champs.
Was Patty there? Shes so hot.
This one? :razz:
Yeah, thats her all right.
GOAT Trophy Wifey
There's drama, intrigue, high speed chases, cops, plots, characters, violence and even a happy ending... even HW would be proud of it ;-)
Maybe, but then again, perhaps it does not always even out:
Funny how that works. Some people always need a special bending of the rules, and others don't.
Having witnessed the other team's captain behaving like a hypocritical jerk, you were arguing for giving them a break. I guess I am missing the logic there. Sounds like bizarro world to me.
How strict are people around here about the tardiness penalties?
One of my singles players told me a few days before our last match that she might not be on time. I didn't have anyone else available, so I told her to do her best.
My substitute captain told me that the player arrived exactly 15 minutes late. She walked through the doors of the tennis facility wearing a suit and pulling wheeled luggage. The substitute captain told her opponent, "She's here, she's here!"
The opponent replied, "Nope, she's defaulted. It's 15 minutes after and she's not dressed and ready to play."
My substitute captain didn't argue. Rules are rules.
We swept the doubles, winning a set tiebreak and two match tiebreaks to do it. Ha!!
To me it is very strict, I played IMs this past season, and the rule was 10 minutes. It was enforced, thing was, every opponent was played showed up. While everyone else in out bracket got a default because the people we played in our first match, never showed up to the ones after.
I'll give a couple of minutes of grace time but that's it.
I expect no leeway from anyone else and I will give very little. The rules ensure fair play when applied consistently.
So if your opponent was five minutes late, you'd rather win by default and go home, rather than overlook it and just play the match?
It's a tough one. It really is.
If it is a timed match and she shows up in high heels 15 minutes late, that means the match won't start until 20 minutes after. Then again, if you take the penalties and start at 3-0, that makes up for the tardiness, more or less, because you can still finish in 2 hours.
What I do is I don't take the default if it is close. I mean, everyone comes to play, so you should play if at all possible and just take game penalties. So if the player were dressed and standing there holding her racket and panting, I would give her a 5 minute warm-up, take the penalties and play. Still needing to peel off her pantyhose, remove her make-up, find her headband, strap on her knee brace? No.
And if I am the captain and my player is waiting for a tardy opponent? I review the rules with her, and then I tell her to do whatever she feels is right.
In almost all cases, my players take the tardiness penalties. I think this isn't necessarily because they so desperately want to win. I think it is because they would feel like a fool if they didn't take the penalties and then lost, especially a timed loss.
Then again . . . one of my players did enforce a two-game penalty once and then proceeded to lose -2 and -2. Now *that* would be embarrassing.
5 minutes late is not a default.
15 minutes late is a default.
If the 15 minute mark rolls around and the opponent is nowhere to be seen, I'll have already written "6-0 6-0" on my scoresheet. If he shows up after another 5 minutes - remember, that's now 20 minutes late and wants to play a friendly match I'll oblige.
This year my 3.5 team missed the playoffs by a single individual match. I'm not going to ignore the rules for the sole purpose of giving opponents more chances to win and knock us out of the playoffs. I expect them to do the same. I'm not going to show up 20 minutes late to a match and expect them not to mark it as a default.
So match is supposed to start at 5:00. Opponent arrives at 5:16 and you're taking a win by default and going home? How fun!
No, this is wrong. I have said none of this. You are making things up and attributing them to me. You are using a cheap, fallacious debate tactic.
"I'll give a couple of minutes of grace time but that's it." This means that if they're ready to play at 5:16 we're going ahead.
I also said:
"If he shows up after another 5 minutes - remember, that's now 20 minutes late and wants to play a friendly match I'll oblige."
That means I'm not "going home."
Please don't lie about things I would do, especially when I have said I will not do those things.
I was wondering that as well.........I wasn't sure I was reading that properly.
Some people seem to lack pride
I try to abide by this (from the Norcal local league rules):
You'll sit around for 20-30 minutes for your opponent after the scheduled start time, and if he shows up just go ahead and play?
What will you do when you're 16 minutes late next week and he calls a default on you?
You get what we had earlier in this thread - someone complaining about how unfair it is that he gave someone extra time but didn't get any himself.
You know who lacks pride? Someone who shows up 30 minutes late for a match and expects it to be no big deal.
That's a good quote. I expect the rules to be enforced, so if I'm 20 minutes late for a match I don't expect the other guy to say "no problem" and not call it a default.
The worst is when a guy shows up 20 minutes late then has a problem with you calling it a default. 20 minutes late! Sorry dude you missed your shot. I'm not bending over backwards and ignoring rules to give you more chances to knock me out of the playoffs.
We had a 7.0 mixed playoff match quite a few years ago. I wasn't in the line-up but came by to watch, arriving 17 minutes after the match time. When I got there, I learned that one of our players had car trouble and wasn't able to make it (nobody thought to call me or I would have been there earlier). I offered to take their spot so we could go ahead and play the match. These were on public courts with no time limit for court availability, all players were there, and since I was only a 3.0 we would have fielded a 6.5 line in a 7.0 playoff match. The opposing captain enforced the default, which was his right. But I have thought less of him ever since.
yeah.....you are right. I was alluding to inside the 10-15 minute mark.........I say 15 minutes needs a pretty solid excuse.
The way you worded it......it kind of seemed like 5 seconds after the 15 minute mark......you have pencil in hand glarring hard at the entrance door, saying 'YES.......WE WIN THAT COURT!!!! I have never seen a Cpt pencil in any outcome before the entire match was over. Whats the point of that??
It just appears that the people playing hard ball are more enthralled with the idea of getting that quick W, so they can win the match or go to Playoffs......instead of just saying it because......its flat out obnoxious to be that late....
I will say......that players should be on time.....then they wont have to worry. I have seen defaults happen all the time.....so its the way alot of people think! a few minutes is one thing.......15-20-30 min just isnt cool
"If the 15 minute mark rolls around and the opponent is nowhere to be seen, I'll have already written "6-0 6-0" on my scoresheet" -- johnnythan
"Nowhere to be seen" is key. If they're nowhere to be seen, they're at least several minutes from being on the court, racquet in hand, ready to play. If it's 15 minutes and I see them getting out of their car or putting their shoes on, that's a different story.
I gotta say that I wouldn't play in leagues in your area. I'm all about the integrity of the game, but I wouldn't want to be on the other side of either in these types of situations. It just doesn't seem fun to stress out more than normal about things like traffic, work, kids, etc. I would skip these types of leagues and play elsewhere.
In my area, we rarely start exactly at :00 or :30 on the clock. Generally that is the time the captains exchange lineups and then they call us over to assign courts. We have courts reserved for 2 hour blocks, but it is basically an unspoken rule that you don't kick off someone that runs over in a league match. Clubs will adjust scheduling to accommodate.
Yes, it is frustrating when I arrive and want to hit for a few minutes, but I have to wait for the 3.0 ladies doubles match to finish their 19-17 match tiebreak. But, I would never tell them that the court is now ours and they'll have to figure something out. I'd be an outcast.
Now that is one of my peeves. Just as the visiting team needs to find the courts and arrive on time, the home team needs to get those courts available. If an earlier match is running 5-10 minutes late then fine - it is essentially the same as someone running a few minutes late arriving). Beyond that, I expect the home captain to make the earlier match move or he's going to risk forfeiting a line. The Norcal league rules refer to this as well:
You wouldn't like Florida. It's pretty laid back here. You'd be viewed poorly if you made a current match move instead of starting yours somewhere else or a few minutes later. The clubs are accustomed to accommodating...we call it southern hospitality. A lot of people like living and visiting here for that reason.
Well, I guess it all depends what your motiviation is in playing league tennis. If your goal is 3.5 playoff glory, then I understand your point of view.
On the other hand, some people (myself included) play primarily for the enjoyment of the game and exercise. Taking a match by default doesn't do anything for me. So most times I will go ahead and play the match anyway.
I *will* take the default if there is a time constraint, or if I feel like my opponent has no valid reason for being late (in which case he is just being disrespectful to me by not being on time).
Dunno where in NorCal Kyle plays, but in my area, we're all pretty laid back. Matches rarely start on time... usually everyone is casually warming up, and then maybe 5 or 10 mins after the scheduled match start time one of the captains will remember that it's time to exchange lineups and get going officially. If someone is late, usually no issue since our matches are not timed. There are a couple of clubs that are more strict about court time limits because of scheduling and so on, but they are in the minority and even then they allow a 3 hour time block for matches, so usually time is not an issue.
Sounds familiar to me
Pretty much how it's done here too.
Generally in Diablo South. I am pretty laid back and (as I've posted) pretty forgiving about delays. We all have lives and my goal with tennis is to actually play. There are at least 4 facilities in our area though, that are pretty impacted for scheduling and have strict 2 hour limits for league matches (including my home facility). Having people arrive late, take long warm-ups and play a close match often causes them to run overtime - into a time slot that the club has booked for someone else.
As I poster earlier, if the courts are available and the players don't have other obligations then I always take the side of letting people play.
Ah right you have indoor facilities in your area... only ones in the bay area outside of SF, right? So that probably means tighter schedules.
I'm north of you; all outdoor and rarely time limited.
Cindy, you need to get an atomic watch to settle time disputes and to prevent
the situation from going nuclear.
A good fit?
One final comment for me in this thread. Once I was playing a night match at Jimmy Evert TC in downtown FTL. The other team was traveling in from Weston, which is at least a 45-minute drive. All of them showed up except the woman who was to play me in singles. I waited 15, then 20 minutes - everybody else was playing - then she came rushing onto the court, all flustered. She said she couldn't find the park because of "bad directions".
I said no problem, and we played the match, which I won in straights. Seemed like she was so upset about getting lost and almost forfeiting that she never got her head into the game (certainly not in the first set, which was 6-0).
Later I looked up her stats on USTA web site, and found out she was at that point the best player in the league, and hadn't lost a single match all season (and therefore a lot better player than me!). My point is - sometimes, playing the match when someone's late can be an advantage. It's certainly more satisfying than going home with a W for a match you never played!
The only way to correct the "late" situation down here would be to rent a team "bus" and have everyone picked up and driven to each match! Broward County is huge, and the traffic can be awful at 9am or 6pm, when people are driving to the clubs. You have to be understanding, unless someone is seriously flaunting the rules (on purpose).
Can't you people put the sneaker on the other foot? Maybe compassion doesn't fit you.
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