"I'll say it right here, right now, Nadal will finish the year as number 1"

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by ninman, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    5,989
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    Agreed, in fact for the last 2 years the only time I was excited to see Roger play anyone was when he played Nadal for the simple fact that Nadal has been the only player to prove that he can consistantly compete, even win, against Federer.
     
    #51
  2. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Yeah lets bring the old age argument into it, you're stats are of course totally incorrect anyway. He had already won 4 hard court titles, and a Grand Slam when he was 21, but what you people who bring up this whole age argument forget is that different people peak at different times. Nadal is experiencing or has experienced his peak right now. Federer didn't start experiencing his peak until he was 21/22. Nadal had a massive leap up the rankings, Federer's was more gradual, and hence more attributed to someone who will last longer in the game. Nadal has had his 3 good years, look for 3 slightly worse years to come, followed by his eventual decline into nothing more than a mere memory.
     
    #52
  3. superman1

    superman1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,243
    Gilbert just throws these things out there and hope they stick. Nadal will probably finish next year as #3. He's unfortunate to be playing in the Federer era.
     
    #53
  4. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,625
    Roger Federer at 21 yrs old:

    Hard Court Masters Titles: 0
    Wimbledon Titles: 1
    Hard Court Slam Titles: 0
     
    #54
  5. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    LOL. Good one. :)
     
    #55
  6. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    BS. If Federer wasn't there, Nadal would've won 2 Wimbledon's. Nadal had some bad luck to with all the rain delays.
     
    #56
  7. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Nobody had bad luck. Not Federer, Not Nadal. They both deserved to be there. Period.
     
    #57
  8. Challenger

    Challenger Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    703
    Man, that was crazy how Fed started to unravel. During that last Wimby, it was the first time in a long while I heard him curse to the chair in a match. It was as if his temperament almost went back to his "pre-Fed" days. I would've been afraid to see would've happened if he lost the match...

    But having said that, I don't think Nadal can keep this up, physically. He's given Fed a great push, but just how much longer before his body gives out under all this strain from his playing style? We've already started to see the hints surfacing.

    It sorta sucks, because I figured Nadal would finally get his day in the sun at #1 when Fed makes his exit...but as time goes on, it seems like Djokovic will trump him by then.
     
    #58
  9. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    And yet he had a bit of good luck having to play 2 five setters in a row and Djokovic withdrawing because of injury.
     
    #59
  10. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    you said it right...ALMOST going out isn't enough -.-
     
    #60
  11. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    By your standards, almost winning but not winning is not enough.
    But you're talking about him almost losing but not losing.
    Can you see the bias? lol
     
    #61
  12. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,046
    Just like almost winning (2007 Wimbledon final) isn't enough. If one wants to bemoan how close Nadal was to winning the final or how unlucky he was, he was closer to losing in the 3rd round to Soderling or 4th round to Youzhny then he was to winning the final. Also he benefited greatly from injuries to Youzhny and Djokovic in the semis.
     
    #62
  13. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    Didn't Federer benefit from Nadal's injury in the final?
    If Djokovic had beaten Nadal, would Fed have benefited from Djokovic's extreme fatigue/injury in the final? of course not... right? he's federer, he doesn't get free wins just like Nadal does -.-
     
    #63
  14. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    From what I saw, Nadal was not any in way hampered by an injury during the final. In fact he was probably helped by the fact that Federer was feeling the pressure of being expected to get to 5 in a row, especially with Borg watching in the crowd.
     
    #64
  15. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Exactly, everyone is talking about how he nearly beat Federer, but are ignoring the fact that 3 other players nearly beat him before he reached that stage.
     
    #65
  16. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,046
    No, he benefited from the fact Nadal couldnt put some easy shots in the court on break points, his own fault and nothing to do with his injury.

    The final never took place so there is nothing constructive to go by. If Djokovic had beaten Nadal it would almost certainly meant he was healthy in the first place since a too-injured-to-play Djokovic wont beat a healthy Nadal at this point.

    I was just pointing out talking about how close Nadal came in the final is pointless since he came even closer to losing in the 3rd or 4th rounds, and as for his injury he was in the final because of 2 other guys being injured. He had much more great luck then bad luck at Wimbledon this year.
     
    #66
  17. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    You are so full of it man. Federer had much more luck than Nadal. Who knows what would have happened if both were equally fresh. Nadal was supposed to be tired after 7 days of playing. It was amazing that he was able to take Federer to 5 sets despite fatigue.
     
    #67
  18. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,046
    :lol: Yeah right. Federer was the one who was so close to losing in the 3rd round, and would have had his opponent converted 1 of 2 break points late in the 5th set? No, that was Rafa. Federer was the one who was down 2 sets to 0 vs an oppenent in the 4th round who had beaten him the last 2 times they played on a non-clay court but then incured a back injury? No, that was again Rafa. Federer was the one who in the semis was playing an opponent who had a good chance of beating him but was not healthy enough to even finish a 3rd set and still won the first set? No, again Rafa. Federer luckier then Nadal, ROTFL!!!! Nadal must have made some deals with the heavens for his run to the Wimbledon final this year. Unlucky Rafa is comedic, he was lucky as heck to even be playing on Sunday at all.
     
    #68
  19. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Nadal was unlucky that he had to play 5 sets with Soderling. The rain came at the worst time and kept coming throughout that match. Nadal's fatigue was much higher after that match. Nadal caught on fire against Youzhny. No way Youzhny would've beaten him after that. Nadal had a much tougher schedule than Federer. Bad luck with that but Nadal got through it. Nadal is just much more comfortable on grass than hard courts. I don't know why but it is noticeable.
     
    #69
  20. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,890
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    What an incredibly stupid thing to say.
     
    #70
  21. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,212
    Yes but the deciding tournament at Wimbledon for me was when Nadal beat his old opponent Berdych SO easily - I thought he would have trouble there. As regards the other matches after seeing him play Youzhny at Wimbledon I really think the change to grass meant slight loss of confidence rather than his performance. And remember noone else had the effect Nadal had on
    Fed during the tournament or any matches since Federer knew he had met his match - Rafa was exhausted and Fed had a much easier time there
     
    #71
  22. bangchu

    bangchu Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Messages:
    596
    Totally dumb argument. Just tell Nadal to get better next time so he doesn't have to play all the freaking 5 setters against inferior players before getting to the final. He had a tough schedule because he played like craps. I agree that Nadal is more comfortable on the green clay than on hard court, though.
     
    #72
  23. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    On green clay Nadal would've won the tournament. Grass has some of the characteristics of clay though. Slippery and unpredictable bounces. Hard courts are totally different from clay though. I don't see much difference in the speed of the courts between grass and hard courts. I'd say they are close to the same.
     
    #73
  24. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,487
    If Nadal would have played better against Soderling and won in straight sets he wouldn't have been injured or tired in the final. Every match takes it's toll. One of the reasons Federer makes it to finals of so many GS's is that he blows everyone away so quickly that he doesn't use up any energy, which is a big part of a GS, whether you like it or not. The French Open is the only place where Federer gets tired because you have to stay on the court so long. So, your argument about Nadal at Wimbledon can also be used by Federer at the French Open.
     
    #74
  25. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,487
    There is a huge variation in hard courts. There are the slow hard courts (the spring hardcourt season Miami and Indian Wells) and there is the fast hard court season (everything after Wimbledon) These courts are like night and day. If you play on them like I have, you will see the difference.
     
    #75
  26. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Well I think grass is closer to a fast hard court than a slow hard court. Probably somewhere in the middle.
     
    #76
  27. WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis

    WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,738
    Location:
    Deutschland
    I really don't see how considering he's bypassed this last, and didn't do as good of showing as Federer overall the year, only equal to at best, so I don't know how he could surpass him.
     
    #77
  28. kingdaddy41788

    kingdaddy41788 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,753
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Wimbledon grass these days is damn close to clay - it's not surprising he should make the final there. Change it back to Wimbledon grass of the old days (even a few years ago) and Nadal would be embarassing to watch on grass.
     
    #78
  29. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,781
    Location:
    Weak era
    I'm not so sure,he does pretty well at Queens which is fast and low bouncing,IMO Nadal likes to play on natural surfaces,I think he would always be more successful on grass than on hard courts because hardcourts are hard on his legs and because of predictable bounce hard court specialist like Youzhny and Blake can take the balls on the rise so it's harder for Nadal to run down their shots
     
    #79
  30. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    I think nadal needs to switch to a larger frame.
     
    #80
  31. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,781
    Location:
    Weak era
    Dude in every thread about Nadal you show up with this larger frame thing,is that some joke? I'm new here so I don't get it.
     
    #81
  32. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    I agree totally. Nadal is much more comfortable on grass because of this. Grass specialists that can take it early there like Soderling and Federer can give Nadal problems to though.
     
    #82
  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    ^^^ Yes, that is a joke. Earlier this year, when Fed lost to Canas two tournaments in a row, there were hundreds of threads and posts by Nadal fans stating that Fed needed to switch to a larger frame.

    It's payback time.
     
    #83
  34. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,781
    Location:
    Weak era
    He was one point away from beating Soderling in straight sets,in third set tiebreak he hit a forehand that was very close to the line,so I think Nadal was a bit unfortunate there.In Wimbledon guys who can beat Nadal IMO are Federer,Djokovic and maybe Youzhny and I expect to see either Nadal or Djokovic next year in a Wimbledeon final.
     
    #84
  35. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,781
    Location:
    Weak era
    Thanks for clarifying that and as for Fed he definitely shouldn't change anything about the racket that got him 12 slams by the age of 26,although I like the way he played with ProStaff Original 6.0 85 against Sampras,he hit some great volleys in that match.
     
    #85
  36. FedSampras

    FedSampras Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    when it comes to being a high-volume, short-post troll, drakula's probably about as good as I've seen on TW. it takes a certain skill and/or mindset I think, to be able to read a post and then respond so quickly with a one-liner, and then do that again and again without getting bored. Of course, the downside of this is that a good percentage of his posts are utter ****e, or just outright troll posts.:D
     
    #86
  37. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    This is true. It is also true that it takes a moron to read all those posts.
     
    #87
  38. PROTENNIS63

    PROTENNIS63 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,722
    I have to give it to you... That was well said.
     
    #88
  39. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,046
    I agree one of Djokovic or Nadal will be in next years Wimbledon final. It will depend which is ranked #2 and which might end up in Federer's half. Whoever is in Federer's half wont be in the final. If Djokovic and Nadal are in the same half, I am going to tip Djokovic to make it at this point. Gasquet might have a shot too, although obviously not vs Federer. Berdych, Baghdatis, Murray or Youzhny could play spoiler for someone, but wont make it to the end of the tournament.
     
    #89
  40. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Why is that? Who won this years semifinals on grass? I believe it was Nadal. Hardcourt is totally different from grass as far as style of play goes. You can't really take the ball early on grass or not often.
     
    #90
  41. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Yeah it's a joke that has been overplayed. Get a new line Drakulie.
     
    #91
  42. dukemunson

    dukemunson Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    278
    Damnit...coming into a thread and seeing Drakulie is present in it is like sitting down for a movie and realizing Whoopi Goldbergs in it...you instantly know its going to be completely worthless and filled with crap...
     
    #92
  43. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,046
    I dont know how you can refer this years Wimbledon semis as meaning anything. I am sure you recall Djokovic retired midway through the 3rd set too injured to continue. He also won the first set despite being too injured to finish the match apparently. I am not going to say Djokovic would have won that match, I am not going to say he would have lost it, since it isnt conclusive. However I dont see how you can refer to that as an actual "win" in the normal sense of the word.
     
    #93
  44. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    I wouldn't really listen to anything he says, he sees Nadal through Rose tinted glasses, a man who can do no wrong but is still only number 2.
     
    #94
  45. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Nadal wasn't exactly a 100% either. I guess enough to beat Djokovic. I kinda get the idea Nadal would've won on grass as I said before. Djokovic is not nearly as comfortable on grass as Nadal. The only one more comfortable on grass is Federer.
     
    #95
  46. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Fatigue cost Djokovic the semi's at Roland Garros and Wimbledon. Don't expect a repeat of it next year.
     
    #96

Share This Page