I'm The Rudest Hooker!

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by jaybear1909, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Let me begin by saying I am by no means a hooker (ignore thread title). I call the ball as I see it fair (and more often than not give calls that I should have taken). So let's begin:

    Tonight was the final mixed match for my girlfriend and me (thanks El Diablo). It was going to decide who won the division. We arrived at the HARD courts and they were still very damp from the rain earlier this afternoon. We just decided to play with it (really wasn't bad) and soon learned that the balls left really good marks in the water. Great, so no one could cheat. Right?

    Everything went smooth up until 5-4. I was serving out the set. There had been some iffy calls made, but with the ball marks clearly showing, no one objected. We go up 40-15, 2 set points. We get in a rally and our opponents both are playing baseline (why, I do not know). My girlfriend gets a forehand and hits it right down the middle. Neither of the opponents went for it. I saw it hit very close, and the man called it out. I then proceeded to jump over the net (okay, I could have walked around) and asked nicely if they could show me the mark. I was smiling, and had no intentions of being rude. The woman about freaking died! Firstly, she showed me a mark that was WAY away from the mark he showed me. Then she proceeded to tell me how rude I was for not honoring their call.

    Of course we started arguing a little. I just explained to her that I was confirming it was out, I was not dishonoring anyone's calls (granted I saw no mark out ;)). She smarted off about 100 times and we dished it back out. Next point, I served and it went wide. She says "Do you think that one was in??" My girlfriend said "I can see it was out, thanks!". Second serve, we get into a rally. I end up hitting a shot to the man's forehand and he hits it just wide. Me and my girlfriend both call this shot wide. They immediately think we're cheating. I showed him where the ball hit, but he wouldn't hear it.

    Second set we were just trying to calm down. Went down 2-5, came back to 5-5 and then lost it. Third set went up 3-0, then 5-4, my serve again. Shi* hit the fan my friends! They called 2 let balls (both clearly in) and a baseline shot out. Neither of us argued. We called 2 of their shots out (I saw them both out, and we had marks to prove it) and they went nuts.

    At this point I was aiming for heads (no I didn't hit any, just an expression). We ended up winning the third 6-4. They had no intention of shaking our hands. I walked over and stuck my hand out, only to get a blank stare. Finally the woman shook mine furiously, and proceeded to tell me I was a great player. Then she says that me jumping over the net in the first set was the rudest thing she's ever witnessed. I told her that no matter how I got around the net, that I could legally look for the mark. She asked what I would do had I found a mark in and I said, "If I found it in, I'd show you, and if you still proceeded to call the ball out that's your call."

    Am I really in the wrong for jumping over the net? I just wanted to see the mark (it was a very important point). I never saw the mark, but didn't argue. Just was showing them that I wasn't afraid to object. Regardless of how I get over there, I feel it's legal to look for a mark.

    In all honesty, I think she's just jealous because she can't jump over the net :shock:.

    *And we won by the way
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    #1
  2. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Oh, I won't say it.
     
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  3. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    It gets more hits than "Cheater" :)
     
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  4. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    LOL, you jumped over the net to look at a mark.
     
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  5. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    You are wrong. You are not allowed to cross the net to go look for a mark. It's against the code whether you go around the net or jump over it, but IMO jumping over the net makes you seem like even more of a jerk.

    What the rule actually says: If playing on a clay court and you call a close ball out, you are supposed to check the mark to verify. You can also ask your opponents to check the mark on a call they make, but they don't have to show it to you, and you are not entitled to go check it yourself.

    From the code:

    21. Making calls on clay courts. If any part of a ball mark touches a line on a clay court, the ball shall be called good. If only part of the mark on a court can be seen, this means that the missing part is on a line or tape. A player should take a careful second look at any point-ending placement that is close to a line on a clay court. Occasionally a ball will strike the tape, jump, and then leave a full mark behind the line. This does not mean that a player is required to show an opponent the mark. The opponent shall not pass the net to inspect a mark. If a player hears the sound of a ball striking the
    tape and sees a clean spot on the tape near the mark, the player should give the point to the opponent.
     
    #5
  6. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    - Post deleted -
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
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  7. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    oh my...

    I have NEVER seen anyone do that, ever.

    I am quite sure it is against the rules, but that's not even the point, really, what were you thinking?
     
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  8. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    you jump over the net in a match against me, i make sure you jump right back:)
    i particularly liked the part about you asking ´nicely´, once you safely landed.
    i guess that makes you a nice hooker
     
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  9. North

    North Professional

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    Lol. You weren't supposed to "get there" at all. It is not surprising your opponents were ticked off about that, whether you jumped over or just strolled around. Go ask Martina Hingis about that.
     
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  10. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Rudest hooker? Hmmm, I don't like my hookers to be rude.
     
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  11. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like the opponents made a horrible cheating call on a clearly IN ball, when that happens, this kind of reaction jumping the net is absolutely warranted. Obscene Cheating must be met with harsh rebuke.

    Warning to blatant cheaters: DO NOT CHEAT
     
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  12. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    But I saw JMac do it!

    If you're going to intentionally call the ball out because neither you nor your wife could reach it, I think that's wrong. I guess I could have just asked from my side of the net, but it wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

    Darn my young legs.
     
    #12
  13. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Beggars can't be choosers ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
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  14. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    lovely excuse, ´but i saw JMac do it´:)
     
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  15. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    You may have won the match.
    They will win the grievance.

    This is the type of antic that will actually result of a successful petition.

    I've only see two instances where someone jumps over the net. One was to throw blows and the other was in response to someone getting (more or less) seriously injured.

    If you wanted to see the mark, wait till you change sides, or come to the net and look from there.

    Running and jumping over the net. lol.

    Normally I hate it when people say "lol rec tennis" but this is the type of instance where I have to say "its just rec tennis" and there is no need or reason to resort to such antics.
     
    #15
  16. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

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    I applaud your enthusiam for tennis but going to the other side of the net is asking for trouble and is wrong, imho.

    One thing to do, if you are concerned about a baseline call, stop and silently stare at the spot a couple seconds then continue play. The opponent wil get the message,
     
    #16
  17. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Yes lol rec tennis.
     
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  18. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    But cheating is perfectly fine right?

    Looking at the mark after the changeover would have solved nothing. I will say that after I did this, they didn't open their mouth to call a close ball out the whole second set. Success.

    It was a split second decision. The moment she hit the ball I knew it was in, and when they both called it out but neither could show me a consistent mark, I knew they were cheating. The woman showed me that it landed 3 feet to the left of the hash, and the guy showed me 3 feet right.

    This is only the second match I've played where I was getting cheated. The first one I just stood there and let it go. I am regretting that to this day still.

    If you're going to cheat on the big points, at least back it up.
     
    #18
  19. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    I can't tell if you're just venting or if you are actually proud of your behavior.
     
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  20. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    i can tell, that you´re not really happy with the responses you get:wink:
    there are two different aspects of your original post, that we can talk about
    one, you jumped over the net. not much to talk about, that´s just not allowed

    two, you had a difference of opinion, whether the ball was in or out and that difference of opinion made you certain, that your opponents where cheating

    in post #1 you write:´i saw it hit very close, and the man called it out´
    in post #18 it reads a bit different:´the moment she hit the ball, i knew it was in´
    interestingly you didn´t find a mark that was in. why not?
    but your opponents inability to show you a consistent mark is cheating?
    did it ever occur to you, that they might have taken their eyes off the ball mark the moment they saw you jumping the net?
     
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  21. Angle Queen

    Angle Queen Professional

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    Dude, you jump over the net...onto my side...and I'm walking off the court. I've never filed a grievance but I sure as heck would over that. Completely unsportsmanlike, regardless of the perceived injustice you might have felt at a call.

    Besides, I didn't think you could technically even look at a "mark" on a hard court (even if you can see them). The rules, as quoted earlier in this thread, speak only to checking a mark on clay...and even then, from your own side.

    You will be lucky if the opposing team doesn't officially complain about your conduct.
     
    #21
  22. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Very close and in are not as different as you make them seem. We gave them the benefit of the doubt on the other close calls. This one happened to be on set point and it was clearly VERY CLOSE to the line. With the way the balls were marking I figured it would be okay to just check. I didn't see a mark outside of the line, nor one inside the line (but the fact that neither of them knew where it hit was suspicious). I gave them the point. The very next point, he came over to our side of the net looking for HIS mark.

    We had a spectator that was courtside and he even agreed that they were calling some very fishy lines.

    I know now that jumping over (or going over at all) is not right. I had seen plenty of people do it before so I didn't know any differently. I won't make this mistake again, but I'm not saying it wasn't efficient. These types of players need to be stood up to. If you're happy with letting them go on their merry way, kudos. I used to be afraid to call any close balls out because I felt I was cheating my opponents. All I ask is that people are fair with me, and I'll be fair with them.

    Do you guys like to be cheated?
     
    #22
  23. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    I didn't run over with my hulk smash face and scream "OH NO SHE DIN'T BOO BOO! I'MA CUT YOU!"

    I didn't realize jumping over the net was equivalent to murder guys.
     
    #23
  24. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    But you thought it was 100m hurdles instead?
     
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  25. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    The worst part of the story, is that I think you really believe the following part is true:

    "I told her that no matter how I got around the net, that I could legally look for the mark."
     
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  26. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Was this a hard court or clay court?
     
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  27. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    If you read my posts, you'd see that I said I did believe it was true, but now I know it isn't.

    You'd also know that I'm not unhappy for calling them out. On paper, you have no idea how I am, or how my opponent's am, I realize that. All I can say is you had to have been there. You may feel differently about my actions.

    I'm humble enough to realize when I did something wrong, but when cheating becomes the answer, I think the rules should bend a little.
     
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  28. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    It was hard, but it was damp. Again, I stated this in the first post, but I realize it was long and you may not have read it. Had the balls not been leaving clear marks I would have never resorted to checking.
     
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  29. Angle Queen

    Angle Queen Professional

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    What a loaded question. No one likes to be cheated. It's how you deal with these kinds of situations, though, that separate the wheat from the chaff and you clearly blew it.

    Let me ask this: do you really think they intended to cheat you?

    I'm sorry if you do. I gotta tell ya, I've met a lot of very competitive people in my 4 decades of playing all manner of sports and cards. And while I know a (very) few who know/use the rules well, some might even say bend them, I've yet to run across an outright cheater. They think they know the rules (that might allow something) and they don't...or they just flat out "see it" a different way.

    Isn't it possible, just possible, that they really saw the balls as they called them?

    When I find myself in a match with an opponent who seems to call it "tight"...that's when I pinch the court just a bit to prevent any doubt...on either of our parts...as to whether a ball is in. Now, is that right or fair? Maybe, maybe not but it's the way to play the game without giving yourself heartburn, before, during or after a match. This is rec tennis, no linespeople or shotspot so we've got to make do with the way things are and that's being as honest yourself...as you can.

    Hope you can take something good away from this experience.
     
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  30. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Yes. That's exactly what I thought. Damn!
     
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  31. BHiC

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    As has been stated here, going onto the opponent's side to look for a mark is not allowed. There are other ways to handle the cheaters. If you are sure that your shot was in, tell them after the point "Oh, did you not hear me? I called your shot before that out". They will most likely get the message. I have never had to do this, but I have seen others do it, and the cheating does stop most of the time. What I normally do, is I walk up to the net, and calmly say, "Oh, so those are the boundaries we are playing with now? Got it!". They will absolutely freak out, and won't make bad calls after that, especially if you shrink the court a little to match what they are calling.

    And also, jumping over the net is not very safe. A girl that I used to practice with tried to jump over the net just for fun the day before she was playing in a fairly big southern tournament, and she caught her toe on the net, and broke both of her arms. Jumping over the net is normally not a good idea.
     
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  32. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Um, I realize your first post was long as well, and you might not have the memory capacity to remember what you typed, but I can't see any mention of "hard" court in your first post.

    The fact that marks are more clear when the court is damp could apply to hard or clay courts.
     
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  33. Angle Queen

    Angle Queen Professional

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    Good to see you learning something through this thread but me and thee will differ on the last part of your statement and it is fundamental to your mindset. Just because you "think" they cheated...doesn't mean you get to bend the rules too. Old saying, but accurate in my mind: Two wrongs, do not make it right.
     
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  34. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Ouch, the old memory capacity is at it again. I'm going to therapy to work on remembering past 10 minutes ago, give me a break. :cry:

    You're correct, I never stated hard court. I've never played on clay and assumed that if clay courts were damp, they'd also be muddy (meaning unplayable). Not to mention clay always leaves marks, so I would never have had to say "It was damp, so balls were leaving clear marks."

    My apologies, reading comprehension is so hard these days.
     
    #34
  35. samarai

    samarai Rookie

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    Its recreational tennis, there are no line judges, no instant replay. Hopefully no money involved. If both of your opponents call it out, then its out. You may question their call and put a thought in their minds to be more efficient in their calls but that's about it. You move on and play the next point.
     
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  36. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    I'm actually surprised at how well I got over the net. I hardly even remember landing. A true moment of grace right there.

    I think jumping over the net with adrenaline is less dangerous :p. Sorry to hear that about your friend though. Ouch.
     
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  37. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    10 char......
     
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  38. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Not wise to play on damp courts
     
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  39. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    LOL. Thanks for the comic relief of this thread though. If anyone wants to know how NOT to handle a situation on court, read the OP.
     
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  40. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    jaybear:

    Don't listen to the comments here. Posters are jealous of you because they cannot jump over a net.
     
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  41. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    In the third set that's how it went about. I just asked if they were being honest and the woman was furious to any objection.

    A couple more points I just remembered:

    We were in a rally and they were lobbing a lot. My gf was at the net, and a lob went close enough in range for her to swing at it. She wiffed at the ball and I was behind her to recover it. The point ended soon after, and the man proclaimed to scream that she tipped the ball. I just stared and he went on to serve angrily.

    Another point I hit a ball close to the line, he put his finger up but she played it. Neither of them said anything and both quickly recovered to play the point out. I said "What??" as the ball was coming back over my side and I saw him shrug. We won the point and I asked "Was it in or not? What was that all about?" He huffed and shrugged and turned around. According to the rules that was our point as soon as they disaggreed on the call, correct?

    These are just two examples out of about 50.

    I promise you these guys were not playing fair tennis. I would never go to the extremes that I did had it not been warranted. Think of me how you will, but know that I am not the person you think I am. Unless of course you think I'm not all that bad, in which case you'd be right :).
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
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  42. woodrow1029

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    There's that too. I wouldn't even make it halfway up the net!
     
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  43. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    How do umpires get on their chair? Is a forklift used? Even if I could climb up there, I would be dizzy with vertigo.
     
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  44. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    You should see the chairs in Memphis and San Jose, with no stairs. They have to bring out either a ladder or some blocks to make steps for us to get up there.
     
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  45. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Thanks, lol.
     
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  46. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    The truth comes out! :twisted:
     
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  47. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    Were these clay courts or hard courts? If they were hard courts, you were completely in the wrong.

     
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  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Or just climb up on Ivo Karlovic's back.

    Seriously, I once tried sitting on an umpire's chair that had been set up for a junior tournament at my club, and I felt uncomfortable. I did not think it was heavy enough to withstand my climbing, and after that I was afraid of toppling over. I am like, if one person can drag this chair around, how safe is it really for climbing up on?
     
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  49. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Hard.

    And so I've been told.
     
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  50. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    There are some that make me nervous, for sure. At Midland, MI, where they play the women's challenger, the chairs are affixed to the netpost. The ladder is attached to a single pole that is slanted upwards, and there is a seat on the top. When you look down from sitting on it, it gives the appearance that you are just "floating" there. When the serve hits the net, you can "feel" the let.
     
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