Incorrect ATP stats (a survey)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by krosero, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Many posters here have mentioned that the ATP site has a lot of mistakes when it comes to things like titles won, or scorelines. I'm starting this thread as a resource for ATP errors on match statistics.

    I'll start with a list of published boxscores that all differ with the ATP stats.

    Last week I ran a search in Lexis-Nexis for boxscores from 1991-2000. I just searched for the term "Total Points Won."

    I found 7 boxscores. Six had serious discrepancies with the ATP stats on service/return percentages and Total Points Won/Played.

    I sent an email to the ATP with a list. I can't say that the boxscores are definitely correct, but I do know that the boxscore I had found for the 1992 W final had accurate figures while the ATP did not.

    I also know that the ATP stats for the 1995 AO final are wrong because they clash with my own counts and ESPN's.

    On the other hand, while the ATP only agrees with 1 of 7 boxscores I found in that particular search, from time to time I have seen other boxscores that agree with the ATP.

    Sometimes I've also seen, not entire boxscores, but individual stats that agreed with the ATP (for example, just the first-serve percentages). Occasionally these stats come from television coverage.

    Also, when we've done our own counts, I can't recall a time when our numbers differed from the ATP stats by a lot. In fact we've done a few matches where our own counts for the total number of points agree with the ATP. We've also come up with slight discrepancies, but with the boxscores we're talking about large differences on things like total points played in the match.

    Later I’ll make some posts on ATP stats that are look okay.

    For now let me just list all the boxscores I know about that clash with the ATP stats on service/return percentages and Total Points Won/Played.

    A list of the matches:


    Agassi-Ivanisevic, 1992 Wimbledon final
    Bruguera-Courier, 1993 French Open final
    Courier-Edberg, 1993 Wimbledon semifinal
    Sampras-Agassi, 1995 U.S. Open final
    Krajicek-Washington, 1996 Wimbledon final
    Sampras-Moya, 1997 Australian Open final
    Korda-Sampras, 1997 U.S. Open
    Korda-Rios, 1998 Australian Open final
    Rafter-Philippoussis, 1998 U.S. Open final


    And here are the actual boxscores. I've been able just to cut and paste them in here; the boxes are gone but the numbers look readable.


    Agassi-Ivanisevic, 1992 Wimbledon final.
    From USA Today, the St. Petersburg Times (Florida), the Gazette (Montreal), and the St. Louis Dispatch:
    The men's singles championship box score (Agassi wins 6-7 (8-10), 6-4, 6- 4, 1-6, 6-4):
    Agassi-Ivanisevic
    Aces 9-37
    Double faults 1-7
    1st serve percentage 58-58
    Pct. 1st serve points won 77-82
    Pct. 2nd serve points won 64-50
    Service games held 22-22
    Break points against 5-16
    Service games broken 2-3
    Placement winners 49-39
    Pct. backcourt points won 57-34
    Points won at net 22-41
    Total points won 163-159
    Time of match 2:50


    Bruguera-Courier, 1993 French Open final.
    From the St. Petersburg Times:
    How Bruguera won
    Here is the box score of Sergi Bruguera's 6-4, 2-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3 victory over Jim Courier in the men's final at the French Open:
    Bruguera Courier
    Aces 7 5
    Double faults 2 1
    First service % 56 56
    Break points won 26 14
    Unforced errors 66 83
    Forced errors 33 16
    Total points won 153 146


    Courier-Edberg, 1993 Wimbledon semifinal.
    From the Miami Herald and the San Jose Mercury News.
    Source: -- ASSOCIATED PRESS
    Statistics from Jim Courier's 4-6, 6-4, 6-2, 6-4 victory over Stefan Edberg:
    Category Courier Edberg
    Aces 5 4
    Double Faults 5 8
    1st Serve Percentage 59 66
    Pct. 1st Serve Points Won 77 69
    Pct. 2nd Serve Points Won 50 31
    Service Games Held 15 12
    Break Points Against 6 14
    Service Games Broken 4 7
    Pct. Backcourt Points Won 42 34
    Points Won at Net 19 51
    Total Points Won 131 113
    Time of match: 2 hours, 40 minutes.
    Published on July 3, 1993, Page 3D, San Jose Mercury News (CA)


    Sampras-Agassi, 1995 U.S. Open final.
    The following boxscore appeared in (at least) the St. Petersburg Times and the Salt Lake Tribune:
    Sampras-Agassi Statistics
    Date: September 11, 1995
    NEW YORK -- Statistics from No. 2 Pete Sampras’ 6-4, 6-3, 4-6, 7-5 victory over No. 1 Andre Agassi for the men’s singles championship of the U.S. Open Sunday:
    Sampras Agassi
    Total Points Won 124 112
    Aces 24 8
    Double Faults 6 5
    1st Serve Percentage 54 56
    Pct. 1st Serve Points Won 86 70
    Pct. 2nd Serve Points Won 54 63
    Break Point Conversions 4-8 2-6
    Winners (including service) 60 33
    Unforced Errors 40 33
    Net approaches 43-59 13-20
    Time of match 2:28


    Krajicek-Washington, 1996 Wimbledon final, 6-3, 6-4, 6-3.
    From the St. Petersburg Times and the Globe and Mail:
    By the numbers
    Kra. Was.
    1st serve pct. 58 65
    Aces 14 5
    Double faults 3 2
    1st srv. pts. won+ 88 61
    2nd srv. pts. won+ 60 45
    Brk. pts. converted 5-11 1-2
    Net points won 25-36 21-44
    Baseline pts. won 32-60 18-52
    Total points won 93 66
    Time of match 1:34
    +-percentages


    Sampras-Moya, 1997 Australian Open final, 6-2, 6-3, 6-3.
    From The Age (Melbourne):
    Pete Sampras (USA) 6 6 6
    Carlos Moya (Spain) 2 3 3
    THE MATCH
    Sampras Moya
    1st serve % 72% 63%
    Aces 12 2
    Double faults 2 3
    % won on 1st serve 82% 58%
    % won on 2nd serve 53% 41%
    Winners 38 13
    Unforced errors 22 18
    Break-point conversions 100% 50%
    Net approaches 80% 20%
    Total points won 89 59
    Match time: 1hr 27mins (sets 23, 28, 36)


    Korda-Sampras, 1997 U.S. Open, 6-7 (4), 7-5, 7-6 (7), 3-6, 7-6 (3).
    From the New York Daily News:
    MATCH BOX SCORE
    Korda Sampras
    First serve 66% 58%
    Aces 15 24
    Double faults 6 5
    First serve points won 78% 75%
    Second serve points won 60% 50%
    Winners 67% 58%
    Unforced errors 45 66
    Break points 3-12 4-8
    Net approaches 16-23 74-124
    Total points won 189 170


    Korda-Rios, 1998 Australian Open final, 6-2, 6-2, 6-2.
    From The Age (Melbourne):
    THE MATCH
    Korda Rios
    1st serve % 52 58
    Aces 4 2
    Double faults 4 4
    % won on 1st serve 78% 59%
    % won on 2nd serve 57% 30%
    Winners 32 7
    Unforced errors 26 31
    Break point conversions 58% 17%
    Points won at net 53% 47%
    Total points won 90 58


    Rafter-Philippoussis, 1998 U.S. Open final, 6-3, 3-6, 6-2, 6-0.
    From the Sydney Morning Herald:
    US OPEN FINAL STATS
    Rafter Philippoussis
    Age 25 21
    Seeding 3 unseeded
    First serve % 72 56
    Aces 6 5
    Double faults 1 13
    Winners 39 34
    Unforced errors 5 29
    Break pt conversions 6 of 20 1 of 3
    Net approaches won 62 of 82 55 of 93
    Total points won 118 85
    Time of match: Two hours, 4 minutes


    In every one of these cases, the ATP's aces, doubles, break points and number of service games look okay, or at least they resemble the boxscore figures. The remaining ATP stats are sometimes off by so much that they don't appear to belong to the match in question.


    Some other discrepancies I've seen:

    - For Agassi-Sampras, 1995 Australian Open, my own counts contradict the ATP stats on points won/played on service and overall.

    - For Sampras-Hrbaty, 1997 Australian Open, 4th round (6-7 (7-4) 6-3 6-4 3-6 6-4), The Australian reported that Sampras led Hrbaty in total points by 157-154 (the ATP has 189-184); that Hrbaty led in aces by 20-17 (the ATP has 21-17); and that Hrbaty converted 3 of 10 break points (in agreement with the ATP).

    Maybe if we get enough people e-mailing the ATP we'll get a response.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2008
    #1
  2. Tennisfan!

    Tennisfan! Rookie

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    Should contact Q&M... Nice to try at least.
     
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  3. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I assume you mean 67 & 58 winners in that last line?

    I was watching this recently & late in the 5th, I think both players only had around 52 winners.
     
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  4. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    That one for some reason has percentage signs in the article I accessed. As with any boxscore it could be a typo, or incorrect data. Or just a different count from the network stats.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
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  5. Tomaz Bellucci

    Tomaz Bellucci Rookie

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    Borg now appaers with 63 titles... Connors with 107... Q&M? Who else write to ATP?
     
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  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Other discrepancies

    Here are a few more matches in which the ATP stats are different from stats in the print media or TV coverage:

    - For Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1998 W final, NBC had counted 306 points as of 1-all, 30-15 in the fifth. I counted 27 more points, for a total of only 333 points in the match, compared to 404 reported at the ATP.

    - For Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1995 W SF, the AP and Irish Times report that Sampras led in total points won by 146-145; the ATP has him trailing 175-185.

    - For Becker-Agassi, 1995 W SF, the Washington Times had Agassi winning 21 of 53 second serves, while the ATP has 21 of 59.

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1995 W final, the ATP stats differ from the Washington Post on the number of points that Becker won in return games (31 instead of the Post's 20), his aces (17 instead of 16) and his double-faults (16 instead of 15). And the ATP’s Total Points Won (309) would yield 7.9 points per game, higher than any confirmed average I know.

    - For Sampras-Corretja, 1996 USO QF, the ATP has a total of 431 points played, while other sources have 375 (Washington Times, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Orange County Register).

    - For Sampras-Agassi, 1993 W QF, the ATP has 318 points played, but HBO's count with eight games left has only 224. I counted 48 points remaining, for a total of only 272. And the ATP lists the match as 8 minutes long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
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  7. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    I'm sending this excellent data to those guys, we'll see!
     
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  8. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Who knows, it might help, thanks!
     
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  9. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Aces and df's counted twice

    I couldn't figure out what was wrong with the ATP stats until the discussion in the other thread prompted me to take another look today. I started adding up how many extra points Sampras was being given by the ATP, and that was the key.

    It turns out that the ATP, in a lot of its matches, counted aces and double-faults twice in their figures for Total Points Won. The aces and df's themselves are listed correctly -- but they were included twice in the other rows (e.g., service percentages, success on first and second serve, Total Points Won, etc.)

    Counting them only once resolves all the major discrepancies that I've listed in the posts above.

    These are the ATP stats for the 1995 AO final:

    [​IMG]

    They've got Agassi winning 151 points overall, and Sampras 154, even though Agassi won more games (and won the match).

    Sampras was given 154 points because his aces, and Andre's double-faults, were counted twice.

    28 aces + 4 df = 32 extra points

    154 - 32 = 122 points won (in line with my own count)


    And Agassi got his aces, and Pete's doubles, twice:

    10 aces + 6 df = 16 extra points

    151 - 16 = 135 points won (in line with my own count)


    And this explains why Agassi, per the ATP, won fewer points than Ivanisevic despite beating him in the '92 W final: because he had only 9 aces while Goran had 37.


    In fact all the boxscores I posted in the original post now line up with the ATP stats, when the aces and doubles are subtracted from the Total Points Won:

    Almost all of them line up exactly with the ATP. With the '92 W final, subtracting the aces and df's actually leaves Goran with 157 points rather than the 159 that he has in my count and in the newspaper boxscore. It leaves Bruguera-Courier with a point margin of 152-145 instead of the 153-146 in the print media (partly because the ATP has blank boxes where the double-faults should go). And Sampras-Agassi at '95 USO is left with a point margin of 123-111 rather than what's in the boxscore and my count (124-112).

    So the ATP's counting is not perfect; but otherwise it lines up exactly with published figures, once the aces and df's are subtracted.

    The problem is that there's no way of knowing which matches in the ATP database have mistakes, other than to check against another source. A lot of ATP stats, esp. in the '90s, are incorrect. But even in that decade there are at least a few matches where the ATP does agree with published boxscores, or with other stats (including our own counts).

    The only way to confirm an ATP boxscore is to check it against stats in a newspaper, tournament website, TV network, or your own count.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
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  10. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    The total points won line up exactly if aces and df's are subtracted once.

    Subtracting the 71 aces and double-faults results in NBC's 333 points.

    Same agreement here.

    Since most aces are first serves, it makes sense that Becker's first-serve percentage would be inflated at the ATP, since those first serves are being counted twice.

    I've actually found stats for Becker's return games in this final that differ from one newspaper to another; a lot of disagreements. I don't know the correct figure but it does look like the ATP's figures for Total Points Won are inflated a lot, with these two men serving so many aces (and Becker serving so many double faults). If the aces and doubles are subtracted, it would leave Sampras winning 138 points overall, Becker 108. That's a total of 246, for a more believable average of 6.3 points per game.

    The ATP has 375 too, once aces and df's are subtracted. And the points break down as they do in the print media: 188 for Alex and 187 for Pete.

    I did this match recently and my total was actually 275, with Sampras leading 146-129 (as he does in the ATP stats if aces and df's are subtracted).

    Incidentally I have Agassi facing 15 break points, while the ATP has only 13.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
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  11. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    So the bias in the ATP stats, when they're wrong, is toward big servers like Sampras, Becker, Ivanisevic.

    Not just their total points won, but their service percentages and success on first and second serve, are going to appear higher than they actually were.

    I think I've read on this board a few debates about whether Agassi or Hewitt had the better return game. That's a good question, but if you use their stats against Sampras, it's more likely that Agassi's return stats are going to appear lower than they really were. Hewitt's stats are probably more accurate because I don't think I've found any ATP stats that are incorrect since around the year 2000. I do sometimes see the ATP differ with other sources by tiny amounts, but that's all. It's in the '90s that, so far, I've found all the big mistakes.
     
    #11
  12. Tennisfan!

    Tennisfan! Rookie

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    Thanks for info kevin!
     
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  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    More discrepancies

    - For Edberg-Chang, 1992 USO SF, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune has Edberg leading 209-175 in overall points, for a total of 384. The Washington Post and SI have 404. The ATP has 436, but that drops down to 404 if the aces and doubles are subtracted once (with Edberg leading 209-195). So I'm inclined to think that 404 is the correct number; only the Star-Tribune disagrees. I'm not surprised that anyone made a mistake given the record length of the match (5:26 at the ATP and in the press reports). The Post, SI, and the ATP agree that there were 23 service breaks. The LA Times has Chang converting 11 of 34 break points (same as the ATP) and facing 20 himself; the ATP has him facing 21.

    - For Becker-Pioline, 1995 W QF, Becker was broken early in the fifth set according to several sources but the ATP has him unbroken. Each man served 28 times but the ATP has each serving 20. So those stats are incomplete in a way I haven't seen anywhere else; and I don't know if anything is going on with the aces and doubles.

    - For Sampras-Agassi, 1999 W final, I have Sampras leading 106-85 in overall points, and so does the ATP if aces and doubles faults are subtracted once.

    - For Agassi-Sampras, 1992 RG QF, I have Agassi leading 102-77. The ATP's numbers drop down to 103-78 if aces and df's are subtracted. And I counted 8 aces by Sampras; the ATP has 6.

    Finally, I did my own stats for Sampras-Agassi, 1995 USO, and they agree with the boxscore posted in the OP. The ATP has the total points wrong as well as the break points: they have Sampras converting 4 of 7 but he was at 4 of 8 in my count and in the boxscore.

    Next I'll post matches for which the ATP stats look good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
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  14. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Actually success on second serve is going to skew low in the ATP stats, if double-faults are being counted twice. And that would often affect the big servers, or anyone who had a bad day double-faulting.

    Doing a quick review of the boxscores above from the print media, they do give players greater success on second serve than the ATP does, but less success on first serve.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
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  15. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Two discrepancies

    I’d missed these two boxscores in my notes. They’re the same as the boxscores above: they disagree with the ATP because the latter has counted aces and double-faults twice.

    Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1994 Wimbledon final.
    From the St. Petersburg Times (Florida) and the Washington Times:
    How Sampras won
    PS GI
    Total Points Won 118 88
    Aces 17 25
    Service winners 54 44
    Double Faults 5 6
    1st Serve Percentage 50 62
    Pct. 1st Serve Won 90 69
    Pct. 2nd Serve Won 60 45
    Service Games Held 15 12
    Service Games Broken 0 3
    Break Points Against 2 11
    Placement Winners 35 33
    Pct. Backcourt Pts Won 63 34
    Advances to Net 34 47
    Points Won at Net 22 18
    Time of Match - 1:55
    (The ATP lists the running time as 6 minutes).


    Kuerten-Bruguera, 1997 French Open final.
    From the Miami Herald:
    Source: Herald Sports Staff
    The boxscore of the men's singles championship of the French Open:
    Kuerten Bruguera
    Aces 4 1
    Service Winners 11 9
    Double Faults 0 1
    1st Serve % 48 58
    % 1st Serve Pts Won 82 58
    Service Points Won 58 59
    Service Break Pts 18 9
    Break Points Saved 8 12
    Return Points Won 53 25
    Net Points Won 16 6
    Unforced Errors 47 40
    Total Points Won 111 84
    Time of Match 1:50
     
    #15
  16. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    ATP stats that look good

    I've put together a list of matches in which the ATP figures for Total Points Won are supported by at least one source.

    By support I don't always mean exact alignment. For some of these matches there are still minor discrepancies between the ATP and other sources, and I've described those below as well as I can pick them out.

    But in all these cases it appears, at least, that the ATP has not counted aces and double-faults twice.

    The list runs through 2003.


    - For Courier-Agassi, 1991 RG final, the Associated Press reports that Courier won 145 points, the same number as the ATP.

    - For Stich-Edberg, 1991 W semifinal, the Sun Herald (Sydney) confirms that Stich trailed 143-149 in Total Points Won.

    - For Connors-Krickstein, 1991 USO, R16, I completed a CBS stat late in the fifth set for total points played. I ended within one point of the ATP figure of 374.

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1996 TMC final, the New York Times and the ATP both have Sampras trailing by 166-178 in Total Points Won.

    - For Federer-Sampras, 2001 W, R16, the BBC’s service percentages support the ATP’s.

    - For Safin-Hewitt, 2002 Paris final, I completed a late-match stat by ATP Masters Series TV and got 192 points played in total, with Safin leading 108-84, in agreement with the ATP.


    I also have some boxscores.

    Stich-Becker, 1991 Wimbledon final
    6-4, 7-6 (4), 6-4
    From the St. Petersburg Times (Florida) and The Gazette (Montreal):
    Stich vs. Becker
    Aces 15 10
    Service winners 51 40
    Double faults 3 4
    First serve pct. 46 58
    Return winners 26 20
    Total points won 111 103
    Break points won 4-16 2-3
    No disagreements with the ATP.


    Agassi-Medvedev, 1999 French Open final
    1-6, 2-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4
    From the Globe and Mail:
    Agassi Medvedev
    Total points won 144 152
    Aces 2 23
    Winners incl. srv 46 65
    Double faults 6 8
    1st serve pct 62 63
    Pct. 1st serve pts 69 74
    Pct. 2nd serve pts 46 41
    Break pt. conv 4-13 5-12
    Unforced errors 56 65
    Net points 22-33 17-30
    Time of match 2:51
    The ATP actually has Agassi at 145 points won. The other stats line up, though.


    Agassi-Martin, 1999 U.S. Open final
    6-4, 6-7 (5), 6-7 (2), 6-3, 6-2
    From the Miami Herald:
    Source: Herald Sports Staff
    Agassi Category Martin
    64 1st serve percentage 60
    7 Aces 23
    4 Double faults 8
    75 Percent 1st serve points won 71
    66 Percent 2nd serve points won 59
    39 Winners (inc. service) 74
    23 Unforced errors 60
    5-10 Break points won 0-8
    16-19 Net points won 62-97
    165 Total points won 147
    * Time of match: 3 hours 23 minutes.
    The Sydney Morning Herald had the same unforced errors but it had Agassi trailing in winners by 45-77; other than that there are no discrepancies between these two sources or between either one and the ATP.


    Agassi-Sampras, 2000 Australian Open semifinal
    Boxscore from CNN.si and The Age (Melbourne):
    Following are key statistics from Andre Agassi's
    6-4, 3-6, 6-7 (0-7), 7-6 (7-5), 6-1 semifinal win
    over Pete Sampras (Reuters)
    Agassi Sampras
    1st serve (percentage) 68 63
    Aces 13 37
    Double faults 3 5
    Winning % 1st serve 74 81
    Winning % 2nd serve 68 49
    Winners 52 86
    Unforced errors 19 56
    Break points converted 3 of 13 , 1 of 9
    Net approaches won 19 of 26 , 71 of 122
    Total points won 155 149
    Source: Reuters
    The figures are the same as the ATP’s.


    Agassi-Kafelnikov, 2000 Australian Open final
    From CNN.SI:
    Following are key stats from Andre Agassi's
    3-6, 6-3, 6-2, 6-4 win over Yevgeny Kafelnikov.
    Agassi Kafelnikov
    1st serve (percentage) 66 53
    Aces 9 14
    Double faults 5 9
    Winning % 1st serve 68 65
    Winning % 2nd serve 59 53
    Winners 38 53
    Unforced errors 35 61
    Break points converted 6 of 17 3 of 7
    Net approaches won 9 of 12 32 of 52
    Total points won 125 113 Source: Reuters
    The ATP stats agree with these.


    Sampras-Rafter, 2000 Wimbledon final
    From the Washington Post:
    The box score of No. 1 Pete Sampras's
    6-7 (12-10), 7-6 (7-5), 6-4, 6-2 victory
    over No. 12 Patrick Rafter for the men's singles
    championship at Wimbledon:
    Sampras Rafter
    First Serve Pct. 62 57
    Aces 27 12
    Double Faults 12 8
    Unforced Errors 79 55
    First Serve Winning Pct. 89 75
    Second Serve Winning Pct. 56 50
    Winners (Inc. Service) 40 29 [these do not include service]
    Break Points 3-14 0-2
    Net Approaches 28-49 39-93
    Total Points 160 138
    Time of Match: 2:52
    The ATP has Sampras at 24 aces, and Rafter at 10 aces and 7 doubles. They have Sampras winning 161 points. And they disagree on first-serve percentages and success on first and second serve (but always disagreeing by two percentage points or less).



    Safin-Sampras, 2000 U.S. Open final
    Xinhua General News Service:
    Following are key statistics from Sunday's men's final at the U.S. Open in which sixth-seeded Russian Marat Safin beat fourth-seeded American Pete Sampras 6-4, 6-3, 6-3
    SAMPRAS SAFIN
    Age 29 20
    Seeding 4 6
    First serve points won 38 of 50 34 of 40
    Second serve points won 12 of 29 26 of 42
    Aces 8 12
    Double faults 4 2
    Winners (including service) 32 37
    Unforced Errors 25 12
    Break point conversions 0-of-2 4-of-9
    Net approaches won 43-of-82 5-of-12
    Total points won 72 89
    Time of match: 1:38
    This lines up with the ATP in all categories.



    Ivanisevic-Rafter, 2001 Wimbledon final
    6-3, 3-6, 6-3, 2-6, 9-7
    This boxscore is from USA Today:
    Ivanisevic Rafter
    First-serve % 55 63
    Aces 27 13
    Double faults 16 4
    Unforced errors 30 11
    First serve winning % 81 77
    Second serve winning % 51 56
    Winners (including service) 42 49
    Break points 3-6 3-6
    Net points 38-70 49-70
    Total points won 154 150
    Time of match: 3:01
    The ATP has Ivanisevic making 1 less double-fault and winning 1 more point overall.


    Sampras-Agassi, 2001 U.S. Open QF
    The Advertiser:
    PETE SAMPRAS d ANDRE AGASSI
    6-7 (7-9), 7-6 (7-2), 7-6 (7-2), 7-6 (7-5)
    Match time: 3 hrs, 33 min.
    Sampras Agassi
    62 First serve pc 65
    25 Aces 18
    12 Double faults 4
    10 Forehand winners 20
    12 Backhand winners 13
    40 Unforced errors 19
    0 of 6 Break point conversions 0 of 3
    96 of 137 Pts won at net 12 of 21
    176 Total points won 162
    This lines up with the ATP in all categories.


    Hewitt-Sampras, 2001 U.S. Open final,
    7-6 (4), 6-1, 6-1
    New York Daily News:
    HEWITT SAMPRAS
    1st Serve percentage 64 60
    Aces 7 11
    Double Faults 5 6
    Unforced Errors 13 38
    1st Serve Winning Pct. 84 63
    2nd Serve Winning Pct. 50 43
    Winners (inc. service) 36 35
    Break Points 6-13 1-2
    Net Points 8-8 49-98
    Total Points Won 100 76
    Time of Match 1:54
    These figures match the ATP’s exactly, except that the ATP rounded all its figures down.


    Sampras-Agassi, 2002 U.S. Open final
    6-3, 6-4, 5-7, 6-4
    The New York Daily News:
    GRAPHIC: FINAL BREAKDOWN
    1st Serve percentage 66 57
    Aces 7 33
    Double Faults 4 13
    Unforced Errors 21 46
    1st Serve Winning Pct. 67 80
    2nd Serve Winning Pct. 53 52
    Winners (inc. service) 27 84
    Break Points 2-12 4-8
    Net Points 10-13 60-105
    Total Points Won 126 151
    Time of Match 2:54
    This lines up with the ATP in all categories.



    Agassi-Schuettler, 2003 Australian Open final
    USAToday.com:
    Agassi-Schuettler box score
    Andre Agassi (2) def. Rainer Schuettler (31), 6-2, 6-2, 6-1
    Schuettler Agassi
    1st Serve percentage 51 67
    Aces 4 7
    Double Faults 4 1
    Unforced Errors 25 13
    1st Serve Winning Pct. 58 74
    2nd Serve Winning Pct. 28 74
    Winners (including service) 16 30
    Break Points 1-1 8-13
    Net Points 12-16 11-14
    Total Points Won 43 80
    Time of Match 1:16
    The ATP stats are no different.


    I haven't listed any more recent matches because I often see the ATP stats corresponding to stats on tournament websites.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
    #16
  17. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Edberg-Courier

    Finally there’s this unique case. Here’s a match in which the aces and doubles were not counted twice, and there’s only a minor discrepancy in Total Points Won between the ATP and another source, but there are nevertheless significant discrepancies (first-serve percentage, success on first and second serve).


    Edberg-Courier, 1991 U.S. Open final,
    6-2, 6-4, 6-0
    USA Today's boxscore:
    Edberg Courier
    1st serve percentage 56 55
    Service winners 1 0
    Aces 3 3
    Double faults 1 4
    Pct. 1st serve points won 84 59
    Pct. 2nd serve points won 69 38
    Service games held 12 6
    Winners 33 16
    Unforced errors 18 20
    Pct. break point conversions 43 0
    Pct. advances to net 72 55
    Points won at net 68 12
    Total points won 96 61
    Time of match 2:02

    The ATP has Courier serving 10 percentage points higher than this, and Edberg is up by 4 points. In success on first serve, Courier is down 4 points, Edberg down 2. Less significantly, they have Edberg at 2 aces and Courier winning 59 points.

    The St. Petersburg Times and the Associated Press agree with USA Today that Edberg's success on first serve was 84%.

    So this match (see also Becker-Pioline above) suggests that there may be significant mistakes in the ATP database that have nothing to do with counting aces and df's twice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
    #17
  18. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Ivanisevic vs. Krajicek and Norman

    Ivanisevic-Krajicek, 1998 Wimbledon sf, 6-3, 6-4, 5-7, 6-7, 15-13.

    That's 71 service games altogether, plus one tiebreak. But the ATP -- despite having the correct score -- reports only 64 service games.

    And they have the break points wrong, too. They've got Ivanisevic 3/3 on breakers, Krajicek 2/4. But the New York Times has Goran at 5 of 6: he broke three times in the first four sets (serving for the match in the fourth), and twice more in the fifth.

    In fact the ATP's break points look like they might be confined to the first four sets.

    Tennis Magazine (“Where Are the Big Guns?” by Jon Levey, August 2008 ):

    Those stats may be taken from the ATP boxscore, which also has 290 total points. The 91 points from aces and double-faults may be fine (the aces are confirmed in the Times), but I doubt that only 290 points were played over the full 72 games. It would mean an average of 4.03 points per game, almost numerically impossible.

    Norman-Ivanisevic, 1997 Wimbledon, 2nd round,
    6-3, 2-6, 7-6, 4-6, 14-12.

    That's 65 service games, plus one tiebreak. The ATP boxscore reports only 39 -- as if the 26 games of the fifth set had been dropped.

    The Dallas Morning News had a boxscore:

    That's 398 total points, compared to 302 at the ATP.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
    #18
  19. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Rusedski-Stark, 1997 Wimbledon, R64 (same day as Norman-Ivanisevic), 4-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-3, 11-9.

    The ATP, for some reason, lists the fifth set as 11-9(5).

    The ATP reports only 53 service games, but in the scoreline (confirmed at The Independent) there are 61.
     
    #19
  20. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Sampras-Korda, 1997 Wimbledon R16, 6-4, 6-3, 6-7, 6-7, 6-4

    Dallas Morning News:

    The ATP has Sampras leading in total points 222-178 (and hitting 27 aces), but if you subtract the aces and df's one time, you get the numbers in the boxscore.

    The line for the Winners appeared with percentage signs, but the numbers look okay. Per the Cincinatti Post, “Sampras fired 58 winners, including 24 aces.” Per The Nation, Korda "crushed an astounding 67 winners and drew 66 unforced errors from Sampras."
     
    #20
  21. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Finding more boxscores.

    Sampras-Becker, 1997 Wimbledon quarterfinal, 6-1, 6-7 (5), 6-1, 6-4

    Dallas Morning News:

    The ATP has Sampras leading in total points by 143-97, but that drops to 124-87 if the aces and df's are subtracted once.

    The ATP has Sampras serving 19 service games, and Becker only 17. On that, they appear to be right.

    Following the score, it looks like Sampras must have served first in sets 1 and 3, because Becker served first in the tiebreak.

    I had no idea that could happen in a tennis match.


    Agassi-Stich, 1994 U.S. Open final, 6-1, 7-6, 7-5

    Hartford Courant:

    The ATP has Agassi ahead in total points by 124-100, but that drops to 111-87 if the aces and df's are subtracted once.

    Before this, the '95 USO final had been the oldest boxscore I'd seen that said it included service in the Winners.
     
    #21
  22. Tennis old man

    Tennis old man New User

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    Fine stats Kevin.
     
    #22
  23. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    More ATP stats that look good

    Here are a few more matches for which the ATP stats -- though they might contain minor errors -- at least appear not to have counted aces and df's twice.

    For Becker-Sampras, 1996 ATP Championships, round-robin, the ATP has each man winning 94 points, in line with my own count.

    For Becker-Sampras, 1996 Eurocard final, the ATP has Becker leading in total points by 139-137. I have the same numbers if I presume that Sampras held at love in the one game missing on my DVD.

    For Sampras-Agassi, 1999 ATP Championships final, ESPN has Sampras winning 37 of 43 points on first serve late in the match. By my count, he went 7 for 7 on his remaining good first serves. So for the entire match he would have won 44 of 50, an exact match with the ATP.

    In the 90s, it's still pretty frequent that I see aces and df's counted twice at the ATP, but some matches don't appear to have that problem. Interesting that the two Becker-Sampras matches are okay (since the stats for their 5-set ATP Championships final are also correct, going by the New York Times).
     
    #23
  24. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Here's another that looks good.

    Kafelnikov-Krajicek, 1999 USO quarterfinal, 7-6 (0), 7-6 (4), 3-6, 1-6, 7-6 (5)

    The Record (Bergen County, NJ):

    The ATP has Krajicek winning 87% of points on his first serve, and leading 169-167 in total points.

    New York Daily News:

    The ATP has Krajicek at 49 aces, but no problem otherwise; they've got Kafelnikov hitting 10 aces and winning 48 of 74 points on Krajicek's second serve.

    The most recent match in which I know aces and df's were counted twice is still the 1999 W final.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
    #24
  25. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Another that looks good.

    Sampras-Agassi, 1999 Los Angeles final, 7-6, 7-6

    CBS News online:

    The points won on serve are the same numbers the ATP has. However the ATP has Sampras leading in overall points by 82-78. And mathematically those must be the correct numbers if Sampras went 64/90 on serve and Agassi 52/70.
     
    #25
  26. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Two more that look good.

    - For Sampras-Calleri, 1999 U.S. Open, R32, a boxscore at ESPN.com put Sampras ahead in total points by 103-92, same as the ATP.

    Sampras Calleri
    First serve 65% 47%
    Aces 17 17
    Double faults 5 3
    Winning first serve 58 of 66 39 of 44
    Winning second serve 23 of 36 32 of 49
    Winners 40 47
    Unforced errors 22 24
    Break-point conversions 1 of 3 0 of 3
    Net approaches 57 of 88 10 of 15
    Total points won 103 92

    - For Sampras-McEnroe, 1991 U.S. Pro Indoor semifinal, Moose Malloy counted the same number of points played as the ATP.
     
    #26
  27. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Incorrect stats

    In all these, the ATP appears to have counted aces and df's twice.

    - For Ivanisevic-Edberg, 1992 Wimbledon quarterfinal, Moose Malloy counted 316 points in the match; the ATP has 315 if aces and df’s are subtracted once from their figures for Total Points Won.

    - For Agassi-Rafter, 1995 AO, R16, I have Agassi leading in total points by 82-53, and so does the ATP if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

    - For Philippoussis-Sampras, 1996 Australian Open, R32, I have Philippoussis leading in total points by 119-109, and so does the ATP if they don’t count their aces and df’s twice.

    - For Kafelnikov-Sampras, 1996 Roland Garros SF, I have Kafelnikov leading in total points by 105-71, and so does the ATP if they don’t count their aces and df’s twice – but note that they have two fewer Kafelnikov aces and two fewer Sampras double-faults than I do.

    - For Washington-Radulescu, 1996 Wimbledon quarterfinal, the Boston Globe has Washington leading in total points by 185-182, and so does the ATP if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

    - For Rafter-Rusedski, 1997 USO final, a boxscore in the Hartford Courant has Rafter leading in total points by 127-106; the ATP has the same if their aces and df’s are subtracted once.

    Rafter Rusedski
    First-serve pct. 62 60
    Winners 49 31
    Aces 7 9
    Unforced errors 23 26
    Double faults 6 4
    Break-point conv. 6-17 3-9
    Pct. 1st-serve pts 82 63
    Net approaches 68-95 54-100
    Pct. 2nd-serve pts 46 51
    Total points won 127 106

    - For Philippoussis-Moya, 1998 U.S. Open semifinal, the New York Times has Philippoussis winning 63 of 74 points on first serve. The ATP has 83 of 94, which looks as if they counted nearly all of Mark’s aces twice (the Times and the ATP agree that he had 21 aces).

    - For Rafter-Sampras, 1998 USO semifinal, I have Rafter leading in overall points by 152-138. The ATP has Rafter leading by 153-135, if the aces and df’s are subtracted once.
     
    #27
  28. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    And here's an example of how widespread the problem of counting aces and df's twice might be in matches from the 1990s.

    - At the 1994 AO, ESPN had Todd Martin winning 172 of 451 points on his opponents’ first serves through the semifinals. The ATP has him winning 172 of 489, which works out exactly if they counted his opponents' 38 aces twice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    #28
  29. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    ESPN showed some highlights so I got some of the CBS stats in the fifth set on break points and total points played.

    CBS has got each player winning 178 points late in the match, so I counted forward and got 404 points in total, with Edberg leading 209-195.

    And the break points agree completely with the ATP.
     
    #29
  30. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Some ATP stats from the 90s that look good

    - For Sampras-Edberg, 1994 Indian Wells semifinal, the ATP stats are confirmed by Moose Malloy’s own count of first-serve percentages, success on first and second serve, aces, double-faults and break points.

    - For Muster-Becker, 1995 Monte Carlo final, Moose counted 313 points, just two more than the ATP has. And for each player he counted as many successful first serves as the ATP did.
     
    #30
  31. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Incorrect stats

    In all of these matches the ATP has counted aces and double-faults twice.

    - For Sampras-Stich, 1992 Wimbledon quarterfinal, ABMK has Sampras leading 83-62 in total points. The ATP would have 84-61 if they subtracted aces and df’s once.

    - For Lendl-Connors, 1992 USO, R64, I have Lendl leading in total points by 111-80, which is what the ATP would have they subtracted aces and df’s once from their stats.

    - For Edberg-Krajicek, 1992 USO, R16, the New York Times had Edberg leading 181-169 in total points. The ATP figures drop to 179-167 (from a tie of 193-193) if the ATP’s aces and double-faults are subtracted once. Note also that the Times had Edberg serving 13 double-faults (compared to the ATP’s 11) and Krajicek serving 13 aces (compared to the ATP’s 15).

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1993 Wimbledon semifinal, the ATP has Sampras leading 130-113 in total points, which comes out to 107-93 if the aces and double-faults are subtracted once. SLICE SERVE ACE has Sampras leading 107-92.

    - For Sampras-Courier, 1993 Wimbledon final, the ATP has Sampras leading 163-135 in total points, but if aces and double-faults are subtracted once the lead is 135-120, right in line with SLICE SERVE ACE's count.

    - For Sampras-Pioline, 1993 U.S. Open final, a boxscore in the Baltimore Sun has Sampras leading in total points by 97-75, which is what the ATP would have if they subtracted aces and df’s once.

    - For Yzaga-Sampras, 1994 U.S. Open, R16, a boxscore in the Orlando Sentinel has Yzaga leading 166-161 in total points, same as the ATP if the aces and df's are subtracted once.

    - For Becker-Agassi, 1995 Wimbledon SF, I have Becker leading 151-47 in total points, same as the ATP if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1995 W final, I have Sampras leading 138-108 in total points, same as the ATP if their aces and doubles are subtracted once. Also, the ATP gave Becker 16 df’s, one more than he had in my count and in the Washington Post’s.

    - For Krajicek-Sampras, 1996 Wimbledon quarterfinal, Wimbledon.org has Krajicek leading 116-101 in total points. The ATP has 114-99 if aces and df’s are subtracted once. Also, the ATP reports that Krajicek faced 6 break points, but the New York Times reported 7 (confirmed in my own count).

    - For Sampras-Chang, 1996 USO final, a boxscore in the Spartanburg Herald Journal has Sampras leading in total points by 94-76, which the ATP also has if aces and double-faults are subtracted once.

    - For Sampras-Henman, 1998 Wimbledon semifinal, the ATP reports a total of 136 points served by Sampras, but SLICE SERVE ACE counted only 114. The ATP has the same number if Sampras’ 15 aces and 7 df’s are subtracted once.

    - For Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1998 Wimbledon final, SLICE SERVE ACE reports 155 points served by Sampras, which is what the ATP would have if they subtracted Sampras’ 11 aces and 8 df’s once.
     
    #31
  32. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    A little more on how the fifth set was dropped in the ATP stats.

    The ATP lists only 26 double-faults between the two players, when they actually served 37 double-faults. Norman is given only 17 aces, when he actually had 25.

    But the ATP boxscore does credit Goran with his full 46 aces!

    46 was once an ace record. So perhaps the number was simply too famous not to list correctly.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Match-Facts-Pop-Up.aspx?t=540&y=1997&r=2&p=N250
     
    #32
  33. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Other problems

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1997 Wimbledon quarterfinal, the ATP puts Sampras at 17 aces, 4 df’s and 4 break points faced. The Dallas Morning News and NBC put him at 19 aces, 3 df’s and 3 break points faced. Moreover, NBC reports 209 points played in the match; the Dallas Morning News has 211; the ATP has 240, which would come down to 211 if the aces and double-faults were subtracted once.

    - For Kuerten-Norman, 2000 French Open final, the ATP has Kuerten facing 16 break points; NBC has 14, and the official RG site has only 13.

    - For Federer-Roddick, 2007 Masters Cup, ESPN had Federer serving at 85%, while the ATP has 82%.

    - For Federer-Nadal, 2007 Masters Cup semifinal, ESPN had Federer serving at 83% (40 successful first serves), while the ATP has 81% (39 first serves). ESPN had Nadal serving at 67%, while the ATP has 71%.
     
    #33
  34. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Since your OP, has the ATP corrected at least some of your earlier grievances?
     
    #34
  35. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    Believe me.. never gonna happen!!

    They have Antwerp 1998 (Belgium mid ****in February) as Outdoor event.. i sent them many emalis to correct that and to make it Indoor Hard (with link to tournament's page on ITF) but then they must correct Indoor-Outdoor matches ratio for 32 players in the draw and they just don't want to do that. Its better to stay wrong than to work and on it and make it true
     
    #35
  36. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Not that I have seen. I can tell you with certainty, none of the matches in my very first post have been corrected.
     
    #36
  37. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    You may be right, but shouldn't something like this update automatically, if corrections are made?
     
    #37
  38. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    I'm not sure.. but its annoying
     
    #38
  39. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    Wrong stats for 1993 Australian Open final too!

    There was 201 points, not 229. Jim won 115 and Stefan 86

    Courier served 56/96, and Stefan 58/105

    Courier was 44/56 on first and 22/40 on second serve. Stefan was 38/58 on first and 18/47 on second serve

    Jim was 49/105 on return, Stefan 30/96
     
    #39
  40. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Plenty of matches on the ATP website have incorrect scores. The ITF website isn't perfect in this regard either, but it's much more accurate than the ATP's on the whole.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
    #40
  41. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Problem with break points

    - For Federer-Agassi, 2003 Masters Cup final, each player has been incorrectly given his opponent's break points. Federer dominated the match but the ATP boxscore has Agassi facing no break points, and they've got Andre breaking serve twice. The numbers have been reversed.

    All the other stats for that match are in the correct column, though.

    Good to know, thanks!
     
    #41
  42. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Correct ATP stats

    Here are some more matches from the 1990s for which the ATP did not count aces and double-faults twice.

    - For Sampras-Agassi, 1991 ATP Championships, round-robin, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras leading 83-77 in total points won, exactly in line with the ATP’s numbers.

    - For Agassi-Sampras, 1992 Atlanta final, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving on 66 points and Agassi on 60, right in line with the ATP stats.

    - For Stich-Sampras, 1993 ATP Championships final, Slice Serve Ace has Stich serving 133 points, Sampras 141 points – right in line with the ATP numbers.

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1994 ATP Championships final, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving 112 points, Becker 132 points – exactly in line with the ATP’s numbers.

    - For Becker-Chang, 1995 ATP Championships final, the ATP has Becker serving on 96 points. That must be correct, because subtracting his aces and double-faults once would leave him serving 66 points in the match and only 55 points in his 15 service games: an impossible average of 3.7 points per game.

    - For Sampras-Agassi, 1996 ATP Championships, round-robin, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving 38 points, in agreement with the ATP.

    - For Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1996 ATP Championships semifinal, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving 101 points, Ivanisevic 109, in agreement with the ATP.

    - For Sampras-Agassi, 1998 Monte Carlo, R32, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving 63 points, in agreement with the ATP.

    - For Sampras-Agassi, 1999 Cincinnati semifinal, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving on 59 points, Agassi on 71 – same as the ATP.
     
    #42
  43. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Incorrect ATP stats

    Here are more matches for which the ATP has counted aces and double-faults twice.

    - For Ivanisevic-Sampras, 1992 Wimbledon semifinal, the New York Times reported that Sampras never won more than two points in any of Ivanisevic’s 21 service games. So Ivanisevic cannot have served more than 138 points (counting 12 points he served in the tiebreaks) -- the ATP has him serving 159. If Ivanisevic’s aces and double-faults are subtracted once, then he served 118 points.

    - For Sampras-Becker, 1992 ATP Championships, round-robin, Nadal_Power and Slice Serve Ace both have Sampras serving 70 points and Becker 75. The ATP would have those same numbers if it subtracted aces and double-faults once.

    - For Becker-Ivanisevic, 1992 ATP Championships semifinal, Slice Serve Ace has Ivanisevic serving 101 points, exactly what the ATP would have if aces and double-faults were subtracted once.

    - For Ivanisevic-Becker, 1994 Wimbledon semifinal, Slice Serve Ace has Ivanisevic serving 89 points, Becker 93. That’s exactly what the ATP would have if aces and double-faults are subtracted once from their stats.

    - For Sampras-Philippoussis, 1995 USO, R32, Slice Serve has Philippoussis serving 147 points, which is what the ATP would have if it subtracted his aces and double-faults once.

    - For Krajicek-Stich, 1996 Wimbledon R16, Moose has Krajicek leading in total points by 105-97. The ATP has 106-96 if aces and df’s are subtracted once.

    - For Sampras-Philippoussis, 1996 USO, R16, Slice Serve has Philippoussis serving 82 points, which is what the ATP would have if it subtracted his aces and double-faults once.

    - For Sampras-Ivanisevic, 1996 USO semifinal, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving 134 points, Ivanisevic 116. That’s exactly what the ATP has if the aces and double-faults are subtracted once from their numbers.

    - For Sampras-Pioline, 1997 Wimbledon final, Slice Serve Ace has Sampras serving 76 points, Pioline 78 points. The ATP would have the same numbers if it subtracted aces and double-faults once.

    - For Haas-Spadea, 1999 Australian Open quarterfinal, the ATP’s figures for success on first serve, for both players, are slightly higher than the figures from Australia’s Seven network, which suggests that the ATP counted aces (and double-faults) twice.
     
    #43
  44. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Games or sets missing entirely

    Here are more matches in which the ATP appears not to have counted entire games or sets.

    - For Ivanisevic-Bailey, 1993 Wimbledon, R16, each man served 31 times; the score was 5-7, 7-6 (7-3), 6-7 (3-7), 6-4, 9-7. But the ATP had only 46 service games played, as if the 16 games of the fifth set were dropped entirely. All the other stats may be undercounted as well (they’ve got Goran serving 22 aces, 10 double-faults).

    - For Henman-Courier, 1999 Wimbledon, R16, the scoreline of 4-6, 7-5, 7-5, 6-7, 9-7 shows 62 service games altogether, plus one tiebreak. But the ATP – despite having the correct score – reports only 46 service games, showing that they have dropped the 16 games of the final set.
     
    #44
  45. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    #45
  46. slice serve ace

    slice serve ace Rookie

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    hadn't notice that at all. so this doublecounting is not reduced to grand slam matches only.:mad: although, both these matches are from frankfurt 1992, maybe it's the only non-gs tournament with wrong stats. i've been trying to calculate 2nd serve pts won for the 90s by substracting dfs from gs matches. this doesn't cover all faults from atp stats, but it'll get us lists which are much closer to reality.
     
    #46
  47. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Actually it had not occurred to me that the double counting might be restricted to GS matches, but you're right that so far the only non-GS event where we know there was double-counting is the 1992 ATP Championships.

    Subtracting double-faults from GS matches should definitely give us a more realistic picture (even if not necessarily an exact picture) and I'd be interested to see what you come up with for Sampras and other big players of the 90s.

    I think that the GS events in 1991, as well as the USO in 1999, did not have double-counting.
     
    #47
  48. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Data missing in other Grand Slam rounds

    The ATP has no data for the R32 at Wimbledon in 1996, except for one match (Krajicek-Steven): http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?e=540&y=1996.

    They have no data for the R32 at the AO in 1997: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?e=580&y=1997.

    They also have no data for the R32 at the 1994 Paris Masters: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?e=352&y=1994. (Data is otherwise available for that tournament in 1991-99).
     
    #48
  49. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I've noticed that the Krajicek-Steven data is wildly off: the ATP has each man winning 73% of the points in the match.

    See http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=K214&oId=S321. The points that each man won on his own 1st and 2nd serves are merely repeated in his opponent's column as receiving points won.

    Wimbledon.org has correct stats: Krajicek led in total points by 152-134 (a total of 286 points played compared to 230 reported by the ATP). Krajicek served 151 points, Steven 135.

    See http://web.archive.org/web/19970130150727/http://www.wimbledon.org/live/3/RSTAT0099.html
     
    #49
  50. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    #50

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