Incorrect ATP stats (a survey)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by krosero, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. krosero

    krosero Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,622
    Here's another case where the ATP has dropped entire sets from a match.

    - For Kuerten-Safin, 2000 Indianapolis final, the scoreline of 3-6, 7-6 (2), 7-6 (2) requires 33 service games, not including the tiebreaks. But the ATP boxscore reports only 9 service games, presumably those of the first set.

    And a case of games being slightly overcounted:

    - For Henman-Kuerten, 2000 Cincinnati semifinal, the scoreline of 6-7(11), 6-3, 7-6 (2) requires 33 service games, not including the tiebreaks. But the ATP boxscore reports 34 service games.


    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ku/G/Gustavo-Kuerten.aspx?t=pa&y=2000&m=s&e=0#
     
    #51
  2. krosero

    krosero Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,622
    #52
  3. krosero

    krosero Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,622
    Stats wrong in all seven rounds at 2003 French Open

    The problem here is one we've seen already, in which two players combine to win more than 100% of the points in the match.

    We saw this already with Krajicek-Steven at 1996 Wimbledon.

    However this problem is appearing in all seven rounds at the 2003 French Open. I have not checked whether it appears in every single match, but each round does have matches with this problem.

    Just two examples.

    For Ferrero-Costa at 2003 French Open semifinal, each player is winning 64% of Ferrero’s service points, and each player is winning 56% of Costa’s service points: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F316&oId=C378. Each player ends up winning 60% of the points in the match.

    Matchstat.com has the correct stats: http://matchstat.com/index.php?Cont...r1=10&Name_Player2=Albert+Costa&Id_Player2=40.

    All of Ferrero’s activity at the 2003 French: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Fe/J/Juan-Carlos-Ferrero.aspx?t=pa&y=2003&m=s&e=520#.


    For Sargsian-Roddick at 2003 French Open, R128, each player is winning 57% of Roddick’s service points, and each player is winning 73% of Sargsian’s service points: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=S545&oId=R485. Each player ends up winning 64% of the points in the match.

    Entire 2003 RG draw: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?e=520&y=2003.

    (Click on the scores for the match stats.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
    #53
  4. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,209
    The match that most interests me is Sampras v Ivanisevic at Wimbledon 1995, as I had long believed (based on ATP tats) that it was a rare case of the winner being massively out scored in points.

    If I recall correctly, having not seen the match in 18 years, Ivanisevic was 20-0 on his serve in BOTH sets 2 and 4, which made his winning so many more points than Sampras believable. OTOH, Sampras led the game count 27-24, which does indeed make a 20-point gap in Ivanisevic's favor seem hard to believe.

    Either way, it was quite staggering idiocy on goran's part to serve five straight love games and then drop serve in the next game and to do so twice in the match.
     
    #54
  5. krosero

    krosero Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,622
    Double-counting of aces and df's

    - For Sampras-Courier, 1996 French Open quarterfinal, the ATP has Sampras winning 138 of 186 points on serve. If his 28 aces and 2 double-faults are subtracted once, he is left winning 110 of 156 service points, which agrees with a report in the New York Times that had Sampras’ serve winning 110 points.

    - For Moya-Rios, 1998 French Open quarterfinal, the official Roland Garros site has Moya leading 110-91 in total points. The ATP would have Moya leading 111-91 if aces and double-faults are subtracted once.

    - For Moya-Corretja, 1998 French Open final, the official Roland Garros site has Moya leading 106-88 in total points. The ATP would have Moya leading 107-88 if aces and double-faults are subtracted once.

    - For Moya-Corretja, 1998 U.S. Open, R16, the official USO site has Moya leading 142-127 in total points. The ATP would have Moya leading 143-127 if aces and double-faults are subtracted once. (All ’98 USO players: http://web.archive.org/web/19981207004917/http://www13.usopen.org/scores/bios/).

    - For Kafelnikov-Enqvist, 1999 Australian Open final, an AP boxscore has Kafelnikov leading 129-113 in total points. The ATP would have him leading by 130-113 if aces and double-faults are subtracted once.

    - For Rafter-Becker, 1999 Wimbledon, R16, Rafter is leading 98-66 in overall points in the boxscore at Wimbledon.org; the ATP has the same number if their aces and doubles faults are subtracted once.

    - For Agassi-Kuerten, 1999 Wimbledon quarterfinal, Agassi is leading 100-77 in overall points in the boxscore at Wimbledon.org; the ATP has the same number if their aces and doubles faults are subtracted once.
     
    #55
  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,622
    - For Agassi-Krickstein in R64 and Agassi-Stoltenberg in R32 at 1993 Miami, the ATP has Agassi, over the course of the two matches, winning 123 of 199 points. That is confirmed in a report in the Sun Sentinel (although it remains an open question to what degree such sources were independent or simply got their numbers from the ATP):

    Andre Agassi has been overpowering in his first two matches:
    Service games
    1st serve points won 41 of 52 79 percent
    2nd serve points won 23 of 40 58 percent
    Break points saved 7 of 8 88 percent
    Return games
    1st return points won 24 of 58 41 percent
    2nd return points won 35 of 49 71 percent
    Break points won 11 of 22 50 percent
    Total points won 123 of 199 62 percent​
     
    #56
  7. krosero

    krosero Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,622
    Goran's second streak was only 12 straight; and he had only 3 straight love holds in that stretch. Still you're right about his inconsistency. Goran said himself that he basically played only 2 bad service games but they cost him the match: the opening games of the third and fifth sets.

    There are quite a number of famous matches from the 90s in which the ATP incorrectly has the loser out-scoring the winner in total points: Agassi-Sampras at the '95 AO and Agassi-Ivanisevic at '92 Wimbledon are two prominent examples, being GS finals.

    Agassi, even in a straight-set win over Krajicek at Wimbledon '93, is out-scored in total points in the ATP boxscore (149-151), though I strongly suspect that is another mistake. If the ATP double-counted aces and df's in the Total Points Won, then the real margin in points would be in Agassi's favor, something like 133-127.
     
    #57

Share This Page