Indian Wells court speed

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by SassyRamirez, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. SassyRamirez

    SassyRamirez Banned

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    So how mind-numbingly slow are the courts this year? Same old same old or did they manage to get them to be even slower? :shock:
     
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  2. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    I hear from some friends that it is in fact much slower this year. I'll be out there tomorrow to confirm what they're saying.

    In about 5 years, I imagine it will be about as slow as clay.
     
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  3. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Miami is slower. Indian Wells is pretty neutral imo. But Miami is like purple clay.
     
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  4. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    That can't be, otherwise Nadal would have said something already.
     
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  5. SassyRamirez

    SassyRamirez Banned

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    Yes according to Stakhovsky it's been slowed down even more:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Also I'm pretty sure their are clay tournaments faster than IW and Miami.
     
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  6. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    IW's always been pretty low bouncing, though. Federer mentioned he likes the surface because his slice stays low.
     
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  7. db10s

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    Is it me or did the color change?
     
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  8. VeryVolkl

    VeryVolkl New User

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    I have a goofy but related question - is the grittiness of the courts the cause of them looking so beat up already?
     
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  9. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    Yep, even as a ballboy at Delray my B7s got some noticeable wear on the outsole.
     
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  10. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    They clearly want Nadal and Djokovic to do well. $$$
     
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  11. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Just got this from a friend who is down there right now, "Hit on them last night.. They're slow but the new ball they're using is fast."

    I asked if it was still Penn and he said yes.
     
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  12. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    i've only seen the women play, we'll find out how slow it is when the men play.
     
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  13. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Do these endless slow court crybaby threads have to be started for every atp tournament? If so many hate the way the courts play today then quit watching the matches.

    Go watch the old time fast surface serve contest tennis and quit whining about todays courts and game.
     
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  14. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Dude... just stop.

    Horrible, but I think it's faster than Miami. Everything is faster than Miami, Madrid is, for sure.
     
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  15. Costagirl

    Costagirl Banned

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    How has it gotten past me that IW is a slow hard court? Notably slow...do player complain? What gives there?
     
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  16. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

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    If it has been slowed down then it is a disgrace for tennis and from the USTA the fact is the American number 1 John isner on a super fast court with his serve would be lethal! The tournament officials should have considered this and prepared a lightning fast surface! Slowing the courts down universally is runining our sport.
     
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  17. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    Regardless if it is fast or slow, there are always going to be players who will have advantage or disadvantage from this... unfortunately, it's only going to be the top players in the Semis and the Finals again just like the Australian Open... :(
     
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  18. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Every time they resurface, the courts start slow and speed up over time.
     
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  19. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    On tennis channel, davenport mentioned that nadal and blake have said the ball travels fast through the air, but bounced high, i.e. slow court.

    I think blake mentioend, during his tennis channel interview, that they were high bouncing but i don't recall him saying that they were slow. he said it worked for his game as he could take a good rip at the ball.

    can't remember blake interview word for word, so don't quote me.
     
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  20. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    its not ruining the sport..the viewing public and tv audiences like it, thats why its happening (slower courts).
     
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  21. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Maybe Ellison wanted it slower, more rallies, more time, more income. They increased the prize money so it has to come back somehow.
     
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  22. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Just stop what telling the truth? Can't wait for Miami so we can hear more non stop complaining about how slow the courts are and it ruins tennis+on+on+on.
     
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  23. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    Lol, you don't know what you're talking about. Indian Wells is known as a fast surface. It's second fastest to USO. How do you come up with the idea that they are "even slower?" I don't know about this year, but in the past they've been very fast. Man newbie, just 64 posts and not wasting your time getting info wrong and starting a wrong trend, do you?
     
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  24. Beryl

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    Indian Wells a fast surface? Faster than Cinci, for example? What are you talking about?
     
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  25. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Its funny how some people think slow hardcourts benefit Nadal.

    The Australian Open is the slowest hardcourt of the slams-
    2012: Nadal 6 hour final which destroyed his knees for 2012, went on to withdraw from Miami semis and never recovered, and had to numb his knee regularly to win Roland Garros.
    2011: Nadal injured at Australian Open QF while going for THE RAFA SLAM.
    2010: Nadal injured at Australian Open QF, retiring from match.
    2009: Nadal won the Australian Open (but almost lost a 5 setter to Verdasco of all people) and went on to lose at Roland Garros and skip Wimbledon.

    Meanwhile, the last time Nadal lost before the US Open semis was 2007, and he won the 2008 Olympics on a hardcourt that the players kept describing as fast hardcourt.

    The slower the hardcourt is, the more damage it does to Nadal.
     
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  26. DNShade

    DNShade Professional

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    Uh -- NO. Totally wrong. I play at the IW Tennis Garden quite often.

    The IW courts are extremely slow -- actually it is a special unique extra slow and gritty surface made by Plexipave just for IW to help combat the "quick" warm dry desert air that makes the ball fly faster.

    So it a bit of a strange in-between. The surface is very gritty and slow but the ball moves fast through the air.

    But IW is nowhere close to being a "fast court" - not even by a long shot. Second fastest after US Open? Yeah right. And the US Open isn't even "fast" - Cincy is much quicker as are quite a few others.
     
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  27. Paul Murphy

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    Pity the guys who laid Dubai this year didn't do IW and Miami too ... and the AO.
     
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  28. Paul Murphy

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    Especially the AO.
     
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  29. Goosehead

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    lol wut ?? did'nt you see any of the action from dubai last week ?..

    thats as fast a HC as we get nowadays.
     
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  30. Clay lover

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    It's gonna be slow if Nadal or Djokovic wins.
     
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  31. 2ndServe

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    was sitting almost court level and it was very slow. I rarely saw aces, if you go bring some jackets you'll need it as the day progresses.
     
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  32. wy2sl0

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    People are underestimating the speed of clay. I played on some hard clay this year (first time) and it was the fastest surface I have ever played on. Mind you, I have never played on grass, but some of the courts around here haven't been resurfaced in 10 years and are like ice.

    There was NO time to make adjustments from the bounce, and I was constantly hitting it late when it was coming hard.
     
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  33. mariecon

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    Is it slower than last year because Isner made the final last year. That must mean it was fast enough for his serve to be effective.
     
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  34. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Indian Wells is slow (and higher bouncing than Miami). Always has been slow (Miami even slower).

    During the 90s many players used to say that some clay court tournaments (for example, Munich) were faster than Miami or Indian Wells.

    The balls used in each tournament play a big role too.
     
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  35. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    No it's not. Miami is much higher bouncing. The reason Federer does well at Indian Wells is the ball stays fairly low, and his slice is extremely effective in those conditions.
     
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  36. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Miami weather is very heavy and humid, and that usually makes the balls slow down through the air and bounce less than the same court in a more dry weather (for example, Indian Wells).

    Hamburg for example (which is on clay) is also very heavy and humid, so it is very slow and the balls bounce less than in other clay courts (that is why some Spanish clay courters, like Bruguera or recently Nadal, didn't like it).

    Both Miami and Indian Wells have always been terribly slow, but Indian Wells has very dry weather (so the balls travel faster through the air and the bounce usually is a bit higher than in Miami), whereas Miami's heavy and humid weather makes the balls slow down through the air more and the bounce is a bit lower.
     
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  37. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    looked very slow yesterday.
     
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  38. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    All you really have to do to see that Miami is higher bouncing is judge with your own eyes. Here's Federer vs. Djokovic in 2009:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbbUeKip7x8

    Look at how high the ball is kicking up on both players, and Djokovic is a flat hitter.

    Actually, for a more direct comparison, here's Federer/Roddick at Miami last year:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-DgIcvKIz0


    Now here's Federer/Nadal Indian Wells last year:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8ZEpDCrEg


    Miami might be the highest bouncing court on the circuit. That's why Nadal murders him there - he just hits forehands that kick up to Federer's shoulders on the backhand side and Federer is rendered helpless.

    If Indian Wells were higher-bouncing than Miami, Federer would've been destroyed by Nadal last year, rather than beating him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
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  39. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    I didn't mean it is low-bouncing like WTF (for example), only that the bounce in Miami (especially in very heavy and humid weather, which is usual there) is not as higher as Indian Wells (for example).

    That has been my feeling watching both tournaments many years.

    Others have the same opinion: "The low-bouncing courts in Miami suit the Frenchman’s game..." from
    http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20120321/Miami_draw_analysis,_Nadal’s_section

    I guess we will need a serious research and data about this topic to be surer.
     
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  40. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Ha ha. Dream on. Have you even been watching the tennis? Indian Wells is not fast at all - it might be faster than Miami and Roland Garros but it's not fast at all.

    It seems slower than last year for sure - watching Federer and Nadal's matches yesterday it was obvious.

    Another detail which I do like about them - man, they seem to take to spin really well. Some of the movement I've seen off serves and forehands has been outstanding.
     
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  41. single_handed_champion

    single_handed_champion Professional

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    LOLz. If Isner were capable of at least winning the insignificant American tournaments, it would be one thing. Losing left and right to nobodies is hardly motivation for the organizers of the biggest tournaments to cater to the needs of a non-top 20 player.
     
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  42. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    I have to agree that Isner is at a low point in his career.
     
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  43. ark_28

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    It is about giving the hottest prospect in a country steeped in tennis history the best chance! Ideally I would have liked to have seen a lightning quick court prepared which barely allowed for rallies of 3 shots or for the opportunity for big serves to be returned but unfortunately the powers that be have kept going with these slow decks which is making the game a battle of attrition and devaluing attacking first strike tennis.
     
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  44. kalyan4fedever

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    The courts are so slow that after hitting the ball the guy can go for some snacks nearby and wait till seeing the other player return and immediately comeback to again hit it
     
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  45. single_handed_champion

    single_handed_champion Professional

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    Am I missing something here? Has Isner demonstrated himself to be a fast-court giant? Doesn't Ark28 always cite his win over Federer on CLAY, Djokovic on the slow-as-molasses surface of IW, and the 5-set match against Nadal at RG (CLAY) ad nauseum? IMO his technique is not good enough to permit first-strike tennis like Federer. He needs time and is a poor volleyer.
     
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  46. President

    President Legend

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    All of John's best performances that I've seen have been on pretty slow courts. Fast courts just don't give a player of his limited movement and footwork enough time to set up for his shots or return serve. Can you give examples of Isner playing great on fast courts?
     
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  47. raging

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    Thanks for heads up, I guess you can compensate by using quicker ball.
    Problem with that is the balls tend to fly in the desert & it is hard to keep them inside the lines. I really struggled the first few days in Palm Springs as well.If you are playing there a lot or get there early, no problem.

    Good call from matttennis on Hamburg, I played a lot there on the slow clay & liked the lower bounce, didn't like the slower conditions but played ok when we used lighter, faster balls. It is all a bit of a trade-off.
    The good pros adapt & get on with the business.
    I watched Fed. play off his trolley against Rafa(won 6-0 in 3rd), think 2007 final, next year Rafa did the same to Fed. Pros.
     
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  48. estigma2001

    estigma2001 Professional

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    now after the Quake courts at IW are slower!!! :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
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  49. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    He's still tired from the Wimbledon marathon match. Cut him some slack.
     
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  50. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Fed likes the surface, he's won on it 4 times.
     
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