input on my serve video?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by austintennis2005, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    #1
  2. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    13,250
    Location:
    In the future
    what level is this ? 3.5 or 4.0 ? good loose motion. you are opening up your shoulder too soon so you are losing some power.
    Keep the shoulder closed little longer like these guys are doing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36wpnYByAMA
     
    #2
  3. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,143
    Two quick tips for you: learn to spin the ball and hit upward, not forward. Go on feeltennis.net and read all the articles and watch all the videos on the serve. Tomaz, the pro behind the site, stresses these two concepts and explains them at least as well as I can. Since I am too lazy to go into detail, learn from him. I can say from watching your video that these are your most pressing issues. Also, pracitce pitching the ball out of your serving stance as high as you can so it lands in the box. Practice your toss too until you can catch it in your trophy pose every time without moving your feet.
     
    #3
  4. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,268
    #4
  5. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,143
    Okay, I didn't want to explain, but I guess I have to.... Hitting up means swinging up to the ball at a very steep angle, as if you want to throw a sky high popup for an infielder to catch as opposed to a pitch to a target. To make the ball go in, that is not follow this trajectory, you have to do a couple additional things. Have the racket face be pointed forward, not upward, at contact. Spin the ball with slice and topspin (the upward motion should help with the topspin). And follow through on the right side of your body. The racket will eventually finish on your left side, but only at the very end. Jeff Salzenstein calls it swinging in a circular path. Tomaz calls it swinging parallel to the baseline. Do this and your serve will technically leave the racket on a downward trajectory, but with plenty of spin and net clearance. It will also kick up and forward after the bounce.
     
    #5
  6. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    yes, i was just this weekend watching a good server and he was really tossing the ball far into the court on 1st serve(like murray)--was trying to do a bit of that on video so maybe appeared that i wasnt hitting up enough-my take is that i dont get my back bent backwards enough to get the shoulder over shoulder action going
     
    #6
  7. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,726
    Yeah that Tomaz video is really nice:
    http://www.feeltennis.net/improve-tennis-serve/
     
    #7
  8. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,373
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    The most important part of the serve is contacting the ball. In your next video, cover from below your feet to above your racket. Camera higher looking along the ball's flight path is a useful viewpoint. Your camera has a pretty fast shutter and the motion blur is not too bad. It should be even better if shot in direct sunlight. What camera and frame rate?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    #8
  9. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,143
    I know you're talking about video, but I'm going to nominate this for the TT Quote of the Week/Month/Year. Put it right alongside balla's quote about how if you go into an open tournament talking about NTRP, you're going to have 31 guys praying they've got you as their first rounder. :)
     
    #9
  10. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    its actually just the phone on my camera, i actually started serving better a couple weeks after i took this video.
    I agree that technique and flexibility are up there among important factors (talking about maximizing MPH on serve) but lots of folk on here try to say that strength isnt an important factor-yes it is, and so is being over 6'1", so imho the factors are 1) technique, 2) flexibility 3) strength and 4) height...we cant do anything about height but trying to maximize the other 3 right now
     
    #10
  11. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    colorado
    Are you from the future? I wish my camera had a phone
     
    #11
  12. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    while you're at it why not wish for a brain? and a personality?
     
    #12
  13. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,005
    When you say "land in the box" what exactly do you mean? Which box are you referring to?


     
    #13
  14. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,005
    Please explain this thing about being over 6'1. What's the rationale behind that. I think that 6'1 to 6'3 is about the tallest one would want to be playing at the pro level for the best results. I mean Isner and Karlovic(sp) have huge serves but they won't probably ever win a major.

    I think once you start talking about adult tennis...your height is not going to matter much in tennis. For every aspect you have an advantage, you will suffer in another area like movement. I'll take 5'9 and move like a cat over 6'6 and a huge serve moving like a turtle with knee braces. The guy I play every week to keep in shape is 6'8. He keeps the matches on an excel spreadsheet and I can tell you that it is tilted heavily in my favor now. It took a couple of years but I think I'm ahead about 7 or 8 matches for this year and the last two years it's probably in double digits. I think timing is more important than strength. I've seen guys that were 5'6 that could hit it past you before you could split step and I've seen 6'6 guys that can't hit it well at all. For your serve...I thought it was consistent...didn't look it it would be attacked easily and at 3.5 or 4.0 or even 4.5 you want consistency more than anything. Be able to move it around and keep guys from teeing off on it.

    My serve is horrible but I've won tourneys at the 4.0 and 4.5 level but I served pretty consistent when I won at the 4.5 level. 4.0's normally kill themselves when I play them. 4.5's if I keep my serve out of their strike zones I have an even chance of winning even when they are serving up bombs. I've mastered returning to offset the horrible serve. :)


     
    #14
  15. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,005
    Let me ask you though. Wouldn't what kind of serve you are hitting determine if you are hitting more forward or upward. I'll tell you what I've done the last 4 or 5 matches. I've been hitting more upward and I'm getting much better results. I'm also hitting two second serves as opposed to serving up bombs on the first serves. My theory is to do this in practice matches so when I do get in a real match my second serve is landing within 2 two 3 inches of the service box line every time and at least kicking out of the strike zone. I just refuse to go out and serve up a basket of balls at this point so this is the next best option. :)

     
    #15
  16. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,268
    From the link posted above, this Tomaz guy illustrates with the red line the very concept that I keep in my mind when I serve: the contact is hit forward and down.

    [​IMG]
     
    #16
  17. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,005
    I understand that and I'm just asking this because my serve is next to horrible. Would you not serve the forward serve when hitting a flat serve? Can you serve an effective kick serve serving the "forward" serve?


     
    #17
  18. jussumman

    jussumman Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    453
    Location:
    NJ USA
    OP's serve is very free flowing and looks good. The wider camera position would have been better but props for even recording and posting here for criticism. As someone who's still trying to find his own serve and not very good in match play serve-wise, I can't say much more about it than it's free-flowing and looks like a nice serve for your level.

    I watch many videos of the best pro servers, Sampras, Federer,.. and see the free flowing classic motion of using momentum hitting upward and pronation at the end to bring the ball down. It's great if you have good coordination and can do it. But I also watch Roddick's serve, and current player Monfils, and others, and there service motion is completely different, yet equally as effective/great!

    Power comes from so many factors, like torque from body rotation, racquet head speed, momentum, but also legs. It's more a matter of finding what works for you, but I'm sure you gain from the replies here from those who've been playing much longer than me and better servers. If you do find something though that works for you, but not the classic motion and includes some hitch, that's okay too!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    #18
  19. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,794
    Location:
    Bay Area
    #19
  20. jussumman

    jussumman Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    453
    Location:
    NJ USA
    foot fault finder is the equivalent of grammar n*zi (just saying)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    #20
  21. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,268
    That's the concept to begin with. You play with the variables. For second serve, conceptually I angle the racket face down even more (you'd see it's like a 1hbh grip) as though to contact the ball further north. Obviously with the same swing as the first serve the ball would hit the net, so I aim the ball to clear the net higher. Instinctively, you'd need to swing less forward and allow the racket head to go up more!


    I found some photos to show what I mean about contacting further north and forward.

    [​IMG]

    More stuff if you're interested: http://tennispro3d.com/author/gpavel/
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    #21
  22. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,143
    Using poor grammar is not cheating; foot faulting is.
     
    #22
  23. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,794
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Ok you are right. But this was a very rare kind where the foot was crossing over the center mark. Totally and utterly avoidable.
     
    #23
  24. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    107
    #24
  25. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    this type of feedback is useless... i was only trying to align myself with the camera, i didnt care where my feet where-i am only concerned with the motion.
     
    #25
  26. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,794
    Location:
    Bay Area

    HMMM. I took you at your word. Silly me.

    Its pretty obvious, Turn more so your chest is pointing away from the net so you can uncoil more, drop the racket, launch up, etc:

    [​IMG]
     
    #26
  27. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    sorry... didnt mean to snap at you...excellent pics! i had been working on trying to do this in the time since i posted that video... thank you!
     
    #27
  28. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,794
    Location:
    Bay Area
    No worries Austint. The internet sucks for communication. :)

    You'll get it in time I am sure. The serve is easy to cut corners on and still be effective. I know I am not getting nearly the pace and trunk turn I had in my youth, but still do OK.

    I have noticed that when I try to turn like in the past the toss needs to be in a different spot. For me it was about a 1ft closer to me then usual. YMMV
     
    #28
  29. austintennis2005

    austintennis2005 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    561
    thanks very much... i will take another video shortly and try to see if im getting better rotation with the torso on the backswing..
     
    #29
  30. tennis_avid

    tennis_avid New User

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Foot faults. :) Anyway, nice practice.
    It looks like you have too many unnecessary movement. Trying to make your swing path more compact might help.
     
    #30

Share This Page