internal hip rotation

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by pushing_wins, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    never heard anyone saying pelvis is part of the upper body in any kind of anatomy. that's absurd. focusing on pelvis has nothing to do with the how much u use the 'kinetic' chain. the spinal chord and the pelvis is the main control point of all parts of the legs and feet. to move and place the feet at the right position so they can push up the ground the hip controls that. right positioning of the hip in regard to the feet and its angles in 3D is the main contributor of overall balance of the whole body and frequently referred core usage. simple force transmission from feet after they are touching the ground and controlling the feet from the hip are two different things. different viewpoints and both valid in different context.
     
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  2. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Just answering the "middle out" question pushing had. I agree tennis is ground up.
     
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  3. tricky

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    If I'm visualizing your example correctly, more or less I would say the opposite.

    The way I always visualized internal hip rotation (in isolation of the feet) is to imagine your two hip joints as two points connected by a rubber band. When the rubber band pulls the two points closer, you have internal rotation. When the rubber band is stretched, you have the eccentric/negative/load phase of the internal rotation.

    That said, it's mostly a function of feet/step patterns to me.
     
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  4. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    #54
  5. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    This description is not very clear. Internal hip rotation is a defined term.
     
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  6. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps, but the two points is sometimes shown as a diagram to demonstrate hip rotation's role with weight transfer.
     
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  7. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    OK, just to clarify that what you have in mind is something other that "internal hip rotation" as defined.

    You are right, they sometimes put red dots on the hip joints and show rotation arrows. I think what we are doing is mixing defined terms and common usages terms for the twisting of the pelvis or two hips based on visual appearances.

    When the pelvis (or both hips) twists in relation to the upper body it involves the lumbar joints of the spine. That motion is Lumbar Rotation. I think another proper term for this spinal twisting is trunk rotation.

    1) Is the motion that you have in mind the very last motion of the woman twisting on the machine? Lumbar rotation?
    http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Spine.html

    2) Or, on the other hand, if the spine does not move and the right hip internally rotates and the left hip externally rotates (as pointed out by pushing wins in the Hogan video) the pelvis would turn with respect to the ground. Is that it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
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  8. albesca

    albesca Rookie

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    about the hockey video ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js6_WAS-Ay4

    ... the empathized opposite high-body / pelvis rotation ---

    Does it happen the same in a (open stance) forehand ... or .... the different feet gripping on the ground of a tennis player ... make it different ?
     
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  9. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i think it does happen. left leg kicks forward, right leg kicks back on the open stance forehand.

    the lower hand on the hockey stick is a semi western grip
     
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  10. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    from start of the forward swing to contact the legs are passive. after contact, its irrelevant. the momentum from the hips swing the leg around after contact.

    have you not already considered that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
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  11. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    load the legs. intiate the forward swing with the legs.

    is that your advice?
     
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  12. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    my advice is load the hips against the pushing leg. that is what creates the separation and stretch. in the kinematic chain there are always opposing movements, the later parts of the chain are still loading as the lower parts already fire.

    the chain starts in the back leg and then continues over the hips, trunk, shoulder, upper and lower arm into the wrist and racket.

    I know there are some guys who don't believe in the kinematic chain and segmentation and instead believe more in a "holistic approach" which is basically the martial arts thing.

    the most famous guy is probably that guy here:
    http://revolutionarytennis.com/

    (BTW I really like his decription of the upper body part of the FH but overall I still go with the science).
     
    #62
  13. Headshotterer

    Headshotterer Professional

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    Body rotation is a major source of power. I see lots of players who arm city the forehand and I /facepalm
     
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  14. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    That's correct. What many people here informally describe as "hip rotation", I describe as "trunk rotation." Pelvic turn is fine too.

    Yup, spot on.

    More or less, I advocate the same as dominikk1985. That's why I advocate the one-foot drill so often; it teaches you how to actually load properly as well as set up a unit turn that loads the kinetic chain correctly in sequence.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
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  15. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    lets talk strictly the hockey video. i m not suggesting it has any relevance to the tennis forehand. just curious what you observe there.

    would you call that "ground up"?
     
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