Is 11.5 oz strung weight too much for girl in 13-15 range?

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by Dr. Perry, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Dr. Perry

    Dr. Perry New User

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    I am in the process of selecting racquet(s) for my daughter. The ones I like are in the 11+ oz range. Are these too heavy for girls? I feel anything sub 11 oz may be too powerless.
     
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  2. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    My daughter has used 11 plus OZ since she was 7. My 6 year old son the same.
     
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  3. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    use the heaviest frame they can handle, some kids are small with fragile arms, some are built like tanks and have 13 size shoes:confused:
     
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  4. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    PRO TOUR my daughter isnt going to be with me this weekend. She has some kinda girl scout camping crap saturday night.
     
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  5. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
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  6. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Strings

    Choices for strings:
    Gamma Professional 16 gauge or 17 gauge
    Babolat Excel 16 gauge or 17 gauge
    A starting tension should be the middle range plus 2 pounds
    It can be adjusted )if necessary) on when strung the second time
    Soft strings do "hide" stiffness of a racket to some extent
    A very trivial remark
    It is very important to test/demo a racket BEFORE buying
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  7. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    OP - at 13-15 - you have to involve your daughter into the process as she has to like her racket. Ask her what manufacturers she likes, show her rackets on TW and get all sorts of demos - lighter and heavier, pay attention to swing-weight as well as weight. String them with the same strings and conduct hitting sessions with a hitting partner while you (and your coach) observe the action. Include serving, backhand volleys and slice in your playtest. Collect feedback from everyone (including hitting partner - he will tell you when she hits the heaviest ball). Changing rackets is cumbersome and costly. Most probably she will select the same racket as some other good girl is using or the one that her favorite pro is using. If she is sponsored - almost all manufacturers have demo programs that is very valuable if she uses grip 2 - hard to get a demo with this grip from a public source. Establishing relationships with a local pro shop may help.
    The strung weights 11.1 - 11.3 and head sizes 95-100" are the most popular. Based on what kind of player she is decide if she needs more power or more control, open or closed string pattern, type of strings. Many girls start using co-poly hybrid or full co-poly at this age. If she takes the ball early with a short swing she may be better off with a lighter racket.
     
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  8. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Poly and hybrids

    1.One should be very careful selecting poly and hybrids at this age.
    It is very difficult to establish how long a GIVEN set of strings can be used
    2.Using 95 rackets requires some evaluation of skills
     
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  9. Dr. Perry

    Dr. Perry New User

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    As far as spec is concerned, I am looking at:

    98-100 sq in; 10.8 - 11.1 oz strung weight, < 65 stiffness.

    Do you think these are about right for the skill level between intermediate and advanced, or advanced?
     
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  10. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Stiffness

    You will get a lot of CONFLICTING OPINIONS about stiffness.
    I do recommend some Babolat rackets for my students
    Example:

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage.html?PCODE=10711
    Stiffness 67
    Please click the icon specifications OR see below
    --->
    Head Size:
    107 sq. in. / 690.32 sq. cm.
    Length: 27.2in / 69.09cm
    Strung Weight: 10.4oz / 294.84g
    Balance: 2 pts HL
    Swingweight: 298
    Stiffness: 67
    Beam Width: 22mm / 25mm / 23mm /
    Composition: Graphite / Tungsten
    Power Level: Medium
    Stroke Style: Medium-Full
    Swing Speed: Medium-Fast
    Racquet Colors:
    Black / Blue / White
    Grip Type: Syntec
    String Pattern:
    16 Mains / 19 Crosses
    Mains skip: 8T, 8H
    Two Pieces
    Shared Holes: None
    String Tension: 55-62 pounds
    ---->
    A decent pro shop may have this racket

    A condition 27 inches long probably should be added to your list
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  11. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    1. - Player has to try it and see if she likes the feel of poly
    2. - Not with all smartphone based apps nowadays. Hybrid can be used until softer string breaks. Full poly - need to establish experimentally how many hours it can be used. I used to do tension graphs and spreadsheets but now my player mostly breaks strings before they become unplayable. Occasionally she would complain that the racket sprays the balls - then I would restring

    The most important - string poly with lower tension.
    3. Generally agree that 95" require advanced skills but some 95" are almost the size of 100" and more forgiving. When we playtested I remember that BLX Tour 95" was much more playable than Pure Storm 98"
     
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  12. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    I disagree

    Your quote
    --->
    Hybrid can be used until softer string breaks
    --->spring
    I disagree.
    Just to show you a bigger picture.
    I coached college this spring.
    I coached a high school 5 years before
    Some college players were able to play 50 hours of hybrid without
    breaking a softer component (they were using the same racket)-more or less 3-4 weeks of the season
    It is beyond me how they were able to do it but it is a bit beyond the point
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  13. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Wow! Is it a division 5 team? :)

    Seriously if the player is a beginner/intermediate she should not be using poly. Just cannot take advantage of it and will hurt herself.
     
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  14. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I can simply recommend you all around great racket - Yonex Vcore 100S. If you wait for a month - it will go on bigger sale as the next version is already available overseas.
    She needs even more power - try Wilson Juice or Bab Pure Drive
    She needs more control - try Head 18x20 thinner beam offerings
    A little bit longer racket - Wilson BLX Tour

    You need to match racket to her game and more importantly - ask her if she has preferences - does she want a red racket or a blue racket?:)
     
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  15. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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  16. Dr. Perry

    Dr. Perry New User

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    Both the Pure Storm GT and Yonex VCore 100S are on my radar, in fact. Is the strung weight on 11 oz level too light even for girls?
     
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  17. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I dont think you posted how big or strong she is, only her age, so the answer is 'probably' but theirs no way to no for sure..Keep in mind TCF's girl is 8.

    For a 13-15 year old, it's really not about whether they are a boy or a girl but how strong they are and can they maintain the racquet head speed with a heavier racquet.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Everyone stresses about handling the 11.5 oz racket.
    Maybe the weight of her racket should be based on the speed and spin of the incoming balls she sees. :shock:
    No reason to use a 11.5 oz racket when the incoming balls are not WTA level, as the WTA PROS use 11.5 oz rackets. The balls she sees are much slower, so maybe a 10 oz racket is plenty heavy, and it would aid her swingspeed even when forced to run and stretch
    Just like in men's tennis, the pros are using an average weight around 12 oz. WE do not face the pro level shots, and don't need anywhere near that weight of racket. At men's 4.0, I think 10oz is more than heavy enough to rip winners from anywhere on the court and to return winner attempts.
     
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  19. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Pure Storm GT is for a really advanced player. Do not see many girls playing with it. TCF offers you a lighter version of this racket - very impressive that his 8yo can play with it - but it may be too light for a 13-15yo.

    As was mentioned above she should use the heaviest racket she can play with comfortably. This should verified by playtest.
     
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  20. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Pure Storm is a mistake

    Pure Storm is a mistake
     
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  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Remember, SWING WEIGHT is also very important. A lightweight racket with a high SW still swing sluggish for someone small of stature.
    But I have to reiterate. The incoming balls she sees at 13-15 is nowhere near the speed of WTA balls. WTA pros, bigger and stronger than her, are using 11.5 oz rackets. Sharapova is 6'2". Serena is 5'9" and 175 lbs. Even Azerenka is 5'11" and 140 lbs.
    And also, stiffness itself might be less important. A thick beamed racket of say...65 stiffness PLAYS stiffer and more harsh than a thinner beamed racket of 65 stiffness.
    The modern game appears headed towards stiffer rated rackets....of thinner beams.
     
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  22. Dr. Perry

    Dr. Perry New User

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    Serena Williams's is 10.7 oz. Given her physical, I wonder why she chose such a light one. By the same token, is 11 oz average a more reasonable choice after all?
     
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  23. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Doc, do not read too much into what racket model a particular pro is using. Most of them use a different racket that their paint would indicate and they all are heavily customized. You keep asking the same question for which we have no answer. We do not know how tall and strong your daughter is and how she plays. 11oz 1pt HL or 11.2oz 5pt HL? - we do not know. You have to try and find out what works best. Read TW University to familiarize yourself with basic racket specs. and how they affect performance.
     
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  24. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    too bad was looking forward to hitting with my son, sort of north against south battle :) can she come another day Friday or sunday?
     
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  25. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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  26. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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  27. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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    ----------------------------------------------------------------
     
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  28. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    REP's can know very little. They are the people representing the companies to try to sell more stuff to the shops.
    Think for yourself.
    Say you have a given tube, it's diameter and it's length.
    Now increase it's diameter. You need to thin the wall thickness, of course. It's stiffer.
    Now decrease the diameter. You would need to increase it's wall thickness, to keep the same weight. Now it's got slower REFLEX.
     
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  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Think of bicycles.
    Steel bikes can have different tube diameters. The smaller diameters are more flexy, while the bigger diameters more stiff.
    Same with aluminum and carbon frames.
    Now we're not talking comparing steel to carbon, or aluminum to steel.
    LIKE materials.
     
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  30. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    A bit more complex

    I am NOT negating your conclusion.
    The reasoning is NOT 100% correct because
    frame A can different from B by the fact that both of them are partially empty
    or filled ,say,with a foam like material of a varying density.
    If my explanation is NOT very clear I will try to do a better job tomorrow.
    Have a good night
     
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  31. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    stiffness rating is tricky, some flex at throat, some at hoop depending on measurement tool. also you have to consider material which has dampening effects, for example Kevlar and Twaron, they are not stiff but they dampen the shock to the arm. Also the layup plays a major role along with handle construction, throat shoulder construction, tapered, grommet type etc...

    I do agree with Lee, that modern game is heading towards stiffer thin beams with open pattern and a bit longer say 27.25, it used to be thin flexible with dense pattern not too long ago ala Pro Tour 630, the pro tour 630 was the most popular frame on the pro tour in the 90's and 2000 but now the game is too powerful and fast, a frame like the original head extreme is ideal http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/REVIEWS/HMGX/HMGXReview.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  32. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    I didn't think your wife was gonna let him miss school. I will try to figure something out.The problem is we live 2 and a half hours away from Atlanta. if not Heath has 4 or 5 other girls at the same level as my daughter that he can play.
     
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  33. t135

    t135 Semi-Pro

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    Yeah depends on the child a lot. My daughter competes against girls the same age who are 8" taller than her. And some 6" shorter and 40 lbs lighter.

    It would be hard to imagine a 13-15 year old couldn't handle an 11-ish ounce frame though.
     
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  34. Llefty

    Llefty New User

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    Julian, I'm curious why you don't recommend the Pure Storm GT. My 9 year old daughter has been using the Pure Storm Team GT, which is just a bit lighter, for about a year now. I've got it strung with Technifibre X-One 18 guage at middle of the range.
     
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  35. Dr. Perry

    Dr. Perry New User

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    I wonder what happened to TCF's posts, they are all edited and gone. Hope nothing bad happened.

    I think I am going to have my daughter demo a few as juding spec may not lead to the right choice. Thank you all for the inputs!
     
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  36. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Pure Storm rackets

    I know couple little things
    1.Pure Storm rackets do require that power be provided by a player
    2.If power is NOT provided by a player it will change shots into blocking shots
    i.e shots which have little turn of shoulder,etc (little unit turn),little follow through
    3.I do NOT know whether the Pure Storm Team GT has problems
    described by #1 and #2 IN ALL cases but general belief is that does
    4.I would advice to talk to a coach/instructor of your daughter
    to check whether her preparation is early and follow through long enough
    5.If the next racket bought will be of Babolat probably Aero Pro or Pure Drive
    would be a better type
    6.Please let me know whether my response is clear enough.
    Please note that in my posts for Dr.Perry I was dealing with a pre-sale situation.
    Your scenario is a bit different because you have a racket already
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
    #36
  37. hhollines

    hhollines New User

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    "No reason to use a 11.5 oz racket when the incoming balls are not WTA level, as the WTA PROS use 11.5 oz rackets. The balls she sees are much slower, so maybe a 10 oz racket is plenty heavy, and it would aid her swingspeed even when forced to run and stretch"

    My daughter is 12 yrs. old and I'm very cautious. She uses the Pure Drive Lite (10.3 oz. strung weight) (same racquet as Radwanska) which is very much on the light end of the spectrum. I'm very cautious with the racquet and strings (Wilson NXT control 16) as I want to be careful as her body is developing and, we are more focused on control and placement than power at this point. I'm sure we are robbing her of power but she is consistent and she has never had an injury.
     
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  38. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    This is fine if it works for you but it really comes down to personal preference. Many people feel that they play better with a heavier racquet than the bare minimum they can get by with. I would let a girl this age decide for herself what she is comfortable with.

    I don't think there is a problem with an 11.5 oz. racquet if she is comfortable with it. If anything, she will be less likely to have elbow/shoulder issues than with a 10 oz. racquet.
     
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