Is a 3.5 in 1 state, a 4.0 in another and vice versa?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by ttwarrior1, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    Are some 3.5 players a 4.0 in some states. Are some 4.0's a 3.5 in another ?

    Im sure you know what i mean, if your smart. Let the trolling begin.
     
    #1
  2. KineticChain

    KineticChain Professional

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    #2
  3. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Easy Answer: Yes
     
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  4. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    The answer us one huge....DUH!
     
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  5. tennytive

    tennytive Semi-Pro

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    Yes, just as a 130 mph serve in one state is a 70 mph serve in another.
     
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  6. seleswannabe

    seleswannabe Rookie

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    OP -> 100% yes.
     
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  7. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Depends on whether they registered under a different USTA number (based on their middle name or someting).
     
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  8. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    Realistically many places have three levels of play.
    NTRP 3.0 beginner
    NTRP 3.5 intermediate
    NTRP 4.0 advanced.

    NTRP 2.0 is for people who can barely hit into the court.
    NTRP 1.0 is for swing and miss players and scoring points as 2-1 rather than 30-15.

    If you read into the descriptions and play for many years you will see that-
    NTRP 7.0- world class- ATP #1-400. When you play you are on ESPN or whatever other channel.
    NTRP 6.5 should therefore probably represent ATP rank1000-401 People who may win some challenger or futures events. You are playing qualifiers for main events.
    NTRP 6.0 for people who are on tour but haven't gotten points yet but are likely to get points. You can win some matches at futures level.
    NTRP 5.5 open level players who are unlikely to ever win a futures or challenger level event. Or get beyond the early rounds. NCAA division 1 ranked players, a few division 2 and 3 players.
    NTRP 5.0 Top club pros, coaches who play competitively and standout tournament players. Good college players who are actively training, fit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    #8
  9. burosky

    burosky Professional

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    I guess 4.5 rated players do not exist. :)
     
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  10. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    Just my general guidelines. Obviously they have 4.5, 2.5, etc...

    People even call themselves levels in between these levels, i.e. 4.0-4.5, 5.0-5.5.

    Most players 4.5 and above are solid players. It is mostly grey area at those levels because little things start to count for a lot- court coverage, speed, hitting on the run, old injuries, age.

    USTA allows self rating. I could self rate at 3.5 even though 5 years ago I was playing division 1 players and club pros and playing open. All you would need to do is hit second serves, throw a few games, etc.
     
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  11. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    By and large each sections are similar but I notice there are certain sections that are better at the top. Southern, Caribbean, Texas and NorCal all make frequent appearances on Sunday at nationals. That doesn't mean those other cities can't crash the party but those four seem to be the most consistent achievers.
     
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  12. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    You forgot an important qualifier for 5.0's.
     
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  13. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    There is no NTRP level 1 fwiw. The lowest level is 1.5.
     
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  14. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    in my area, there are plenty of 4.0 players and only a few 4.5, not really enough for a solid league (yes tournaments are an option if willing to travel some).

    the 4.5 players/bumps get screwed with few playing opportunities/leagues, i wish they'd just lump them in
    with us 4.0 thugs.
     
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  15. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    OK, so 1.5 NTRP, no 1.0. Anyhow I find it somewhat pathetic to see people with no hand eye coordination and hitting at the low levels. I was lucky enough that at age 5, I could hit groundstrokes with adults.

    USTA lists 3.5 as High school varsity player and 4.0 as HS state championship player. Obviously there can be a huge difference in a HS champion in Florida vs. Maine.

    With regard to tbuggle comment...That's the problem. In Michigan there weren't many people over 4.0, so people 4.5 and 5.0 would call themselves 4.0 and get league play. One guy I know was in his 50s, former tour level player and he got banned from playing USTA for playing 4.0 and 5.0, but for lack of a league that was his only way to find regular opponents. My solution was to buy court time and invite college guys out to hit in an informal setting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
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  16. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    These are MINIMUM guidelines that people can rate themselves. They're not saying all HS state tournament players in all states are or should be 4.0. Here in NJ, the kids that make states are high 4.0 at a minimum for first round losers up to 5.0 or 5.5 for the kids that are winning or making semis/finals.
     
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  17. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Some 4.0s are really only 3.5 at another club in their city. Especially if their club pro pumps up their ego by inflating their rating. Up to those sandbaggers to burst their bubble.
     
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  18. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    But there is great variability in the level of play in each state. That was my point. Also guidelines are guidelines- not absolute.
     
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  19. lstewart

    lstewart Rookie

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    You run in to both sides of the issue with the self rating system. Players that want to play team tennis often will try to rate themselves a little low to have a better chance to win. With enough history they will eventually get to the level they should be playing, at least compared to the other players in the region. The other side is the player who describes themselves as a "4.5", much as how golfers say they are a "5" handicap or whatever. I've found these players are almost always at least .5 worse then they say. I've never had someone they were about a 4.5, and then them really be that good. I do agree that some parts of the country are stronger. It makes sense... if all the 4.0's are really strong, a person competing against them won't get bumped. In another section, if the 4.0 competition is weak, someone may dominate and get bumped up.
     
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  20. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Ha, ha, you fools! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia', but only slightly less well known is this: 'never respond to a TTWarrior thread when death is on the line'. Ha ha ha!
     
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  21. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I'm shocked none of the 'in the USTA (and their amazing computer software!) we trust' groupies haven't arrived in this thread yet.

    It's not even state to state - even within the same region. Basic statistics - when you're talking about tens of thousands of data points nationwide, there will be clusters with anomalies - and people able to play at an NTRP level higher than their actual skill level.
     
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  22. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    I suspect if you took the middle 50% of legitimately computer rated players in a ratings band they would be pretty equitable across regions.

    However, I suspect the the top and bottom 25% get skewed when the tennis density is very high or very low.

    For example in some regions where there are not many players they simply do not have a 4.5 division .... so many of those players that would be 4.5's manage to find their way into 4.0.

    Also, in heavily populated regions there may be more of a motivation to manage your ratings. We have all read about the dramatic ratings management that goes on in Texas ....

    So west coast ... in general I do think the USTA does a pretty good job for most of us, but you are right that there will always be outliers.
     
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  23. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    I love this!

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    Too bad some trolls on here can't take a thread serious, some on here have mental issues
     
    #24
  25. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    You dont say? Being serious for ttwarrior for a min. Yes. In your case your 2.5 level tennis is actually 2.0 in Florida or California. If you ever actually stepped foot in either state they would revoke your 2.5 park rec league champion trophies. Even the big one.
     
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  26. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Those are 3.5 trophies. He worked hard to break into someone's house in the middle of the night and take pictures with them.
     
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  27. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    It even varies by county in my state.
     
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  28. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    sorry arche, im 4.0
    Yes i can actually believe it could vary by county

    2 people from a certain state moved here and according to usta they were winning 5.0 matches and can't win a 3.5 tourney here
     
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  29. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Lexington or Louisville?
     
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  30. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    In rec tennis such ratings have less to do with tennis skills in the formal sense and more to do with win/loss record.

    You can easily rise to 3.5/4.0 and even become a city Champion in a place like Atlanta while having a weak/dink second serve and terrible ground strokes. All you need to do is knock the ball over the net one more time than your "I Wanna Hit Like Nadal" opponent who gifts endless UEs and the match.

    Matches between most 3.5s/4.0s who have figured this out go on forever since neither can generate enough pace or is accurate enough to finish points without generating too many UEs. They patiently hit the ball back to their opponent waiting for a UE.

    Now, there are some 3.5s/4.0s who might have some pretty strokes, at least once in a while. And if they're really disciplined they might even exploit those nice strokes at the right moment during a match. But most "top" 3.5s/4.0s are simply the most patient players among many, many impatient players.

    I know this based on personal experience and observation. We have a ton of 3.5s/4.0s at our club who can't generate pace, at least with consistency or accuracy. And stroke-to-stroke everything is highly variable. But some often win big since they patiently wait for an opponent to self-destruct, especially in singles. I even know some 4.5s with terrible form but they win because they consistently get the ball back no matter how ugly the shot.
     
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  31. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    So your really a 5.5+.... If these 5.0 computer rated players can't beat your area rated 3.5s. You being 4.0 is like 6.0.

    Your a 4.0 in 12 and under tennis. Lmao. In adult USTA your like a 2.5. I've seen your videos man.
     
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  32. goober

    goober Legend

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    You are just jealous because you can't serve 120 mph with a frying pan grip.
     
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  33. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    That's only because I'm not an ex semi pro football player with an abundance of fast twitch muscle fiber. Or a lefty.
     
    #33
  34. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
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  35. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    ttwarrior again comes to the rescue of a boring adult forum. We need a name for people who unintentionally troll.
     
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  36. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    I'm in kansas. We had a guy from the east coast with a good 4.0 record play a tournament down here. He went 2 rounds with close matches then lost 2 and 3 to the number two seed. Seems pretty consistent.
     
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  37. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Someone messed with ttwarrior's keyboard again putting the "2" key where the "4" key belongs.
     
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  38. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I'm in Middle States NJ. I've played people from every district of MS, Eastern, Mid Atlantic, Florida, NorCal, Southern Cal, and Arizona. I have never noticed a significant difference in any region (other than the regular variation within a level).
     
    #38
  39. rabidranger

    rabidranger Rookie

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    Wow, that sounds like me. Haha. Patience and consistency are a definate virtue at the 3.5/4.0 level. One day I will learn....
     
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  40. Bdarb

    Bdarb Hall of Fame

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    What's a 3.5?
     
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  41. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

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    Terse Answer: Yes
     
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  42. Baxter

    Baxter Professional

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    I moved from Southern California to Colorado and didn't feel there was a difference. Toney clubs like John Wayne in Newport CA over rate their players to pad their delicate egos. I played a "5.0" at John Wayne that would have had a hard time in USTA 4.0 match.
     
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  43. kanulondon

    kanulondon Rookie

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    Absolutely on the money here. I play in many leagues here in UK. We don't use the rating system as you know but most people are 3.5/4.0's and I have seen so many of these patient players do very well.

    KL
     
    #43

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