Is Alex Clayton a pusher?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by Trickster, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. Trickster

    Trickster Rookie

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  2. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

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    i don't know how you get that Clayton is a pusher from that video. he's going from corner to corner when he has the chance to. i see him trying for down the line winners.

    only shots i see that would be considered pushing when he was wrong footed, this is mostly to his backhand side which to me is obvious his weaker side.

    also he might seem like a pusher to you because Beidas played a lot more aggressively in video shown.
     
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  3. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    No, he does not look like a pusher. Of course, the word pusher is greatly misused on these boards by people who have no idea what it means, so I am not sure what you think it means.
     
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  4. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    do you even know what a pusher is? someone who just taps the ball (pushes it onto the opponent's court). Please get your terminology right before opening threads.
     
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  5. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    I dont agree that he is a pusher. However, I would like someone to apply duct tape to Beidas' mouth :p
     
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  6. DownTheLine

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    Not even close. It was very windy that day and like Leaf said he was going from corner to corner. Look at his videos from Stanford vs UCLA.
     
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  7. DownTheLine

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    Larry I would like to do the same I've watched that video 50 times and that always makes me mad.
     
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  8. NolemurraY

    NolemurraY Rookie

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    Please tell me Clayton won this match, Beidas started to get on my nerves towards the end!!!
     
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  9. DownTheLine

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    He won 4-6 6-4 1-0
     
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  10. NolemurraY

    NolemurraY Rookie

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    Thats good to hear :D I can sleep happily now. I mean saying cmon is ok on big points, but saying it after every point you win gets annoying, I hope Clayton did a massive CMONNN after winning the 2cnd set and then the match ;P
     
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  11. TennisNinja

    TennisNinja Hall of Fame

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    Even in college they don't play a full third set?

    And no, he's not a pusher.
     
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  12. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    The noise in general, yeah a little bit of sound ok. But these loud, and RUDE grunts really urinates me off. Its that reason why I watch WTA on mute.
     
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  13. Evry1hateslefties

    Evry1hateslefties Rookie

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    lol i do the same
     
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  14. Trickster

    Trickster Rookie

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    I think really when we're talking in terms of professionals/college players a bit of relativity has to be applied. Yer of course he's not going to play like Joe Bloggs at the park playing wif-waf tennis.

    What I'm trying to say is he's playing very defensive, which is the professional equivalent of pushing.

    I'm talking like Michael Chang/Bjorn Borg/Muster - all could be described as pushers/defensive players

    I really don't see Alex going for many shots here.
     
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  15. DownTheLine

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  16. woodrow1029

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    I can't believe that Fedace hasn't gotten on this thread yet!
     
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  17. stanfordtennis alum

    stanfordtennis alum Hall of Fame

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    he is no way shape or form a pusher.. he may be a counterpuncher but far from a pusher
     
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  18. stanfordtennis alum

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    i know!! fedace will be the happiest man alive when he sees this thread
     
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  19. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    haha finally no hate for fedface, I thought I was the only one that enjoys his posts
     
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  20. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    You know he isn't a pusher nor is he a counterpuncher. You did say you hit with him right ? He is a aggressive baseliner with a big 1st serve. He plays like Lendl in someways. He sets up points with big forehands into either corner. and Alex gets in trouble when he plays guys that gets his serve back often and neutralizes his big forehand.
     
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  21. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

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    Speak of the devil. lol jk

    If people figured out that they can just hit to his backhand they would win alot more points against him...
     
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  22. blaby

    blaby Rookie

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    how does fedace know so much about clayton?? :p
     
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  23. DownTheLine

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    His grandparents live in the city I live in. :)

    His dad might even too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
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  24. Trickster

    Trickster Rookie

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  25. DownTheLine

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    The only ball I saw he was pushing on that whole video was the very last point Klahn served before the camera focused in on Alex and that shot was a mishit. All the serve returns I think your talking about he's not pushing. Klahns serve is going 110-120 m.p.h I would like to see you get a racquet on the ball.
     
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  26. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

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    are we watching the same video? his backhand was a lot better in this video than the one in the OP. landed them in the backcourt several times, went for the corners when he could and even got a cross court passing shot.

    only times when his bh was weak was during serve returns and that's nothing to be ashamed of, you block serves back most of the time, a person needs to be extremely good at reading a serve if they want to really do anything with it.
     
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  27. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    besides he can't be a pusher, because pushers dont excell past the 3.5 level :p
     
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  28. Trickster

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    I regularly come up against guys serving at this pace - not really part of the discussion here though.

    Have you not seen the loop on that backhand during the middle of that video. And I don't mean on the return of serve, we're talking during the point.

    That is sheer grinding imho.

    This is not a personal criticism on Alex, but his style is pretty defensive.
     
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  29. Trickster

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    Watch that video against Kahn at 2.00 minutes onwards. Classic example


    He takes that 2nd serve about 3 foot behind the baseline, and loops it back.

    Then hits a 3/4 backhand straight down the middle.

    The one that takes the biscuit is the penultimate backhand, which is looped about 10 feet above the net.
     
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  30. forthegame

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    Man, that Beidas dude.... thinks he's a pro..
     
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  31. autumn_leaf

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    you mean the one that was taken about shoulder high?? that's just a hard ball to hit for most one handers.

    he does seem defensive on the serve return, but i disagree with being defensive for his entire game. it just seems like he's more comfortable with a baseline game.
     
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  32. forthegame

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    With such a vibrant collegiate system, why doesn't the US produce more successful ATP/WTA players?
     
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  33. DownTheLine

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    Alex is not a defensive player. He won the USO junior doubles championship. You can't be that good of doubles player and be a defensive player.
     
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  34. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    because if they were talented enough to be top 20 pro, then they would have turned pro at 18 years of age and skipped the college program all together...
     
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  35. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

    I guess to the OP and others, if one isn't trying to rip the cover off the ball on every shot he's a pusher. You guys must have attention deficit disorder if you go for winners on every shot. Both guys had decent games and appeared to know how to come to net and put balls away. Mr White was on the defensive more - didn't have a huge serve and as others said was blocking his returns back - probably needs to work on that part of his game.
     
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  36. chrisplchs

    chrisplchs Professional

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    Very aggressive baseline who does not really try to set up points but rather hit winners left and right and is very good at doing so.

    Clayton can hit winners at will
     
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  37. Tennisman912

    Tennisman912 Semi-Pro

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    Give us a break. I find it pretty comical anyone would consider Alex a pusher, or at least anyone who knows anything about tennis at least (or plays). Anyone who regularly plays against those who serve in the 110-120 mph range (as you state) and returns them with the nonchalance you imply, is a player who would know better than to ever suggest this line of reasoning.

    Translation. You have never seen a 110-120 mph serve in your life and are vastly overestimating you and your peer's tennis game. Because only someone will little tennis knowledge would suggest he is a pusher based on this video (or any other I have seen of him).

    He hit the short ball back up the middle (with solid pace I might add) expecting the guy to guess one way or the other. A good play the majority of the time.

    Sometimes this board is entertaining though. Good tennis all.

    TM
     
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  38. forthegame

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    Ah! Thanks.
     
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  39. Trickster

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    I'm not talking about service return..I'm talking about in the middle of the point.

    I play people who are good as Clayton on a regular basis, the league I play in is equivalent to Div 1, so I feel qualified to comment. I think people on here are looking at Clayton as if he's playing down at your local club. Of course he's not going to look like a pusher there

    For the record, I think he's a good player. My observations weren't negative in anyway.
     
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  40. TourTenor

    TourTenor Professional

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    C'mon Fedace, this is your man, remember, ATP top 50 and all that ... I'm disappointed, you just haven't been the same since you started self-medicating!:wink:
     
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  41. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Alex is one of the most aggressive players ive ever played; its straight up unbelievable to me that someone could actually say he is a pusher, plays defensive or counter-punches. He just has a solid one-handed backhand but thats both far from uncommon for every level of player including the pros, as well as again a solid deep shot that he isnt ripping like his forehand but is hit deep and moves it around. He has got one of the biggest forehands around, and that includes some of the best pros. Does he need to kill every ball? That would just be nonsense. Is Federer a pusher? Theres not really a huge difference in the way players of this level hit the ball compared with top pros other than that they obviously do it better. Really when anyone plays Alex you have to get to his backhand or there will be nothing you can do and lose if he is playing decent. His forehand, and big serve, are so good that my entire game plan centered around relentlessly going to his backhand during rallies and serve targets and I still lost in a close 3 set match.

    If he ever improves his consistency and a couple little other things he honestly has the potential to be a REALLY good player, like top 100 or better. He has got huge power on the forehand and serve.

    Edit: Also just wanted to comment how the video of his match with Beidas, both players are playing very aggressive on the forehand and theres some big baseline play being made here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
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  42. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

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    I have just gone from having some respect for your posts to none. You don't play people anywhere near to Claytons level. There's a HUGE difference in Stanfords #1 player and a normal D1 player. Through out the whole US Alex is probably in the top 20 if not higher.(Counting the pros) Your "D1 league" is probably full of 4.0-4.5s.

    This is Tonlars(Posted in this thread) playing http://vimeo.com/3231428 4 months before him and Clayton played at that tournament he's talking about. Tony is an INSANELY AWESOME player and Clayton still beat him. I'm not taking anything away from Tony, but Alex is that good.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
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  43. vandre

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    yup, the other dude definately had ana ivanovic syndrome!

    to comment on the original question, i wonder if clayton altered his game because of the wind. i could here it blowing through the camera mic from time to time and thought there might have been enough wind for clayton to go for more spin.
     
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  44. Brock

    Brock New User

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    Not at all...


    Not at all...

    I think that people are misusing the term "pusher". A "Pusher" is someone who constantly hits moonballs and slices, and drop shots- THEIR GOAL IS TO WIN THE POINT ONLY BY MAKING THEM HIT STUPID ERRORS AND FRUSTRATE THE PLAYER.


    Now, in this video, Clayton isn't really going all out- but at the same time he isn't "pushing"- this is a strategy which I think of as "grinding"- it's not pushing, not at all, but Clayton is just staying in the rally and making his opponent hit the tough shots- he isn't lobbing the ball, just hitting ball for ball with the guy, conserving his energy while staying in the point. IMO Clayton although he lost the first set, wasn't too worried or intimitated by the guy (I mean, with all the "come-on"s, who would be?) and he realized he could win without "hitting out" on the ball.
     
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  45. Trickster

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    So if I modify my statement to say that he's *grinding* quite a lot of points out? Would that be a more appropriate statement>?
     
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  46. Trickster

    Trickster Rookie

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    Edited....
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
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  47. DownTheLine

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    Highest rank was 798. Somewhere in the high 700's.
     
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  48. Trickster

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    Just to clarify he looks an unbelievably talented guy...Just that video against Beidas - he isn't exactly taking control.

    Who do you play for TonyLars??
     
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  49. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    you tell them Tony...they are clueless.
     
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  50. Tennisman912

    Tennisman912 Semi-Pro

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    Trickster,

    I am not talking about the service return either. But that should have been obvious based on my language. Grinding, yeah right. They are both hitting the ball hard and consistently. They are FORCED off balance by a good shot, not grinding and trying to keep it in play like you and your buddies. LOL. Go video yourself and your friends (who play tennis, not watch tennis videos). I hope you notice a bit of a difference but alas, based on this thread, it is a lost cause. I usually try not to be too offensive but on occasion, stupid is, as stupid does warrants it. Please stop speaking about things you know absolutely nothing about. Thankfully, the ignore function still works quite well when reason doesn't.

    You tell him Tony. I would love to see some vid of your match with him. You are quite the baller.

    Good tennis all

    TM
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
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