Is anybody kinda disappointed that the 2012 doomsday nuts aren't putting up more...

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by seattle_1hander, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Or perhaps its the pride that ignorant people carry their ignorance with ?.. A case of ' As ignorant as we wanna be...'
     
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  2. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    What’s wrong with ignorance? We are all ignorant of something.

    Ignorance is bliss.
     
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  3. chrischris

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    What is wrong with ignorance is that often problems accumulate and accelarate as a result. Debt is one example of many.

    'Ignorance is bliss' is a really more myth than fact , kind of a BS statement imo and many others.
     
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  4. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    You might have been confused between ignorance and stupidity. Big diference.
     
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  5. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
    ~ Bertrand Russell

    To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.
    ~ Isaac Asimov
     
    #55
  6. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    That statement by Mr Russell is pretty good..
    Science works because of it.
    Unfortunately we are doing damage.
     
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  7. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    In fact there is an increasing amount of indications and observations showing we have transgressed certain boundaries / budgets in what life can sustain and therefore are in for it. These were in most instances passed a few years ago . So pre 2012 already..
     
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  8. Sentinel

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    Dejection turns to despair as it seems that the end is not really near.
     
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  9. chrischris

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    The so called end is far away. The vague definítion of 'the end' is more present than ever.
     
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  10. Sentinel

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    Due to the alignment $$$$, we'll move to a higher frequency, and evolve into post-humans, basically asexual reproduction, higher dimensional beings with superpowers, read minds and that kind of @@@@, be in five places at the same time, be anywhere at once, time travel, live on sunshine and air, we will be immortal, no death, no aging, no crapping, no sleep, no crime, we'll come out of this consensual hallucination called the world.
     
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  11. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Meanwhile , back in reality, we have issues that can well determine the future.
     
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  12. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    I used to have this close friend. I really liked her....we also both shared the same faith - as someone earlier mentioned "Judeo Christian" ...anyways...she got so caught up in the technicalities of the law so to speak as well as involved with the wrong husband who basically over bombarded her with a lot of "information"...

    Anyways...she got so caught up in these things, that she basically disowned her family. I tried to be her friend again...after a while, she tried to get me to know Christ in the "real" way and basically that i didn't know Him as well as she did...as his Name wasn't really Jesus and that his original, non translated name is the only correct way to use it....and even up to the point of where salvation in the technicality of his name is important.
    They ended up learning how to can beef, build homes - basically all in preparation of apocalyptic days...but i won't go into that....

    The point I am trying to make with people who DO believe:
    It is often dangerous when laws, information, opinions and science gets in the way of the simple act of faith. Faith can be tangible, but it is not always measured. There should be left a tolerance for the "abstract". Grace trumps the law...and not the other way around. It is in the understanding of grace, when the true laws of love are kept. Salvation can actually be simpler than we make it at times...

    With those who do NOT believe:
    Most of the people on this planet, has some form of faith. To everyone a measure of faith has been given. Some starve it, some feed it. Some choose to believe that murder is okay. Some choose to believe that there is a God. Some choose to believe that there isn't...and that is faith also. And then some actually believe that God has his own will and that was to send salvation through his Son - and so that we can find closure to the "who is the real God?" issue.
    "What is Truth?" aside, I just think that people should actually consider why so many people DO believe in something at least. There has to be some merit in it.

    Personally, i think faith can be the act of putting reasons aside, and the act of love in its place.

    "Faith is believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe."
    - Voltaire
     
    #62
  13. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    I think you are right one should always keep an open mind and be curious to why people think or believe in A ,B or C etc..
    Yet i dont think you are able to conclude that because a number of people think something or believe something that should add credibility.


    Faith can be force of good , just as science can.
    Most believers trust science daily and science is built on theories that so far can stand the rigors of peer review.

    The same happens in tennis , the best test each other games and the best prevail. Tennis players put each others understanding of the game to a test and try it , test it to see if it stands up to the stress and opponents game.

    Its scary how bad reporting seems to be on science, lots gets shown isnt peer reviewed , its a farce in that they cast doubt and saying 50/50 odds of AGW being a fact, for example.
    This is saying some guy who is ranked like 3000 in the world and isnt even active any more still deserves a place in the season ending Barclays event at which normally only the 8 best get to take part. .
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #63
  14. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    I agree with the bad reporting on science. It reminds me of the same thing that people have to say about sport. "Surfing is the fastest growing sport in this country"...then one switches the tv channel, and someone else says "volleyball is the fastest growing sport in this country".

    99% of all statistics are made up on the spot....just like this one.

    Sometimes science (or someones word/opinion) get away with murder due to the fact that it has the label of science or status of that person. What if it is bad science? Not to mention the unexplained things we will probably never have the answer of. Not all scientists share the same beliefs on theories either - so to say science as a whole has the answer, is not always true, as the door of contradiction is often open. Sometimes even some scientists has to ad some faith in order to believe their own strange theories. To me, science only proves more and more, how little we do know about this universe. The more we learn, the more we should realise how little we know.

    "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
     
    #64
  15. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    But the more we learn the more we also realise what we can do and cant do if we want to maintain a living standard and health we desire.
     
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  16. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    Yes...this is sort of the point i'm trying to make...that sometimes "learning" would mean humbly accepting our limitations as human beings...on the one side striving for truth no matter the cost, but sometimes accepting that not everything will ever be understood.
     
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  17. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Ok, good. It is quite clear that everything has a limit. A budget.
    If we go far in a negative sense , we get into a 'hole' and its hard to get back up. If we go too far , i.e. beyond a certain point, a tipping point, we cant come back.

    Do you agree?
     
    #67
  18. spaceman_spiff

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    I like how you associate non-believers with murderers, as if only non-believers are bad people. But, there is a massive hole in your argument.

    If you consider the number of bad things that happen around the world, including murder, then there are two possible explanations: either people with faith are committing horrible acts or the large number of horrible acts is evidence that there are very few people with faith.

    So, either faith isn't the act of putting love in the place or reason or very few people have faith and thus it does not have merit based on widespread practice as you claim.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
    #68
  19. GoSurfBoy

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    98.5% of inmates in jail for violent crimes consider themselves "very religious". The remaining 1.5% are 'other', undecided, agnostic or atheists. Fact.

    As comedian Adam Corolla once said; "If I was sitting next to someone that has a loaded gun, I'd rather them be guided by their own internal code rather than what some book told them they should or shouldn't do".

    Serial Killers are generally very religious, or became much more so right before they began their sprees. Fact.

    If I can at all avoid religious people, I do so like I would the plague.

    As far as the world ending? Maybe. Who knows? I'm more concerned with the coming crash of the Dollar when it loses Reserve Currency status, which IS what I have prepared for. As someone who deals in global economics, finance, currency trading, etc., and deal with people, daily, who are in several countries around the world, I see The Real World - not the make-believe story the government shovels out to presstitutes to shovel out to the sheeple nation to keep them calm.

    But if there is a panic or a good catastrophe that the government can benefit from with the 2012 Doomsday, be sure they'll take advantage of it to gain more control over a gullible population.
     
    #69
  20. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Ok, good points.
    Then you can see that economics have their limits.
    Would you agree that everything measurable also has its budgets and limits?
     
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  21. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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    I think we are about to seriously test 'budgets and limits', but as my aerospace engineer father used to say; "Figures don't lie, but liars figure". Perfect example is a real 23% Unemployment, but the government 'figures' until they come up with some preposterous, sub-8% number, soooo.....lol. And people believe things are "getting better".....

    There is something called 'the normalcy bias', wherein people who have never experienced something in their lives have a tendency to believe 'it cannot happen', 'it won't happen to me', etc., and trend towards 'normalcy' as a form of security to cling to.

    Like the 2012-thing; "It hasn't happened, therefore it cannot". Who can say or know?? It doesn't seem credible, but since I cannot see into the future, I guess I'll see when I see...or won't!

    But that's why so many cling to whatever nonsense the government and the controlled -MSM tell them, night and day; "Everythiiiing is juuuus fiiiiine. Now go back to sleep".

    How global events are reported by the US media would be funny were it not so sad and such disgraceful lying. Americans really have no grasp of The Real World, as I like to call it, and, in the end?

    They'll ACTUALLY BELIEVE POLITICIANS over experts - experts with proven track records and have no agenda - like EVERY politician does.

    Whoda' thunk it?
     
    #71
  22. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Sort of an odd question, figured you might be one to check it out. (I asked my history prof who major'd in Religious History this one, and she was stumped!)

    Why should one care about faith? It's not the issue of "believing" or "non believing" but why should one care/have interest in the first place?

    Figured it might be a interesting little thought anyone here to check out! :razz:

    -Fuji
     
    #72
  23. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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    Interesting.....

    "The Mayans, Coronal Mass Ejection and the End of the World as We Know It."

    "According to Mayan prophecy the year 2012 has a special significance. In June of 2012 one of the rarest astronomical events occurred. Venus passed directly between the Sun and Earth heralding, on December 21, 2012, "the end" and the return of the “feathered snake God” Kukulcan. The question on the minds of many: “The end of what?” The world and/or all of mankind? Elders, Mayan and Hopi, believe the "end" is not necessarily the end of the world but rather the end of an era – a transformation. The elders explanation doesn't offer much clarification. Is it a physical transformation, a spiritual transformation or perhaps both? Mainstream scholars have not “bought into” the prognostications put forth by the Mayans and others - but what do mainstream scholars have to say about current known threats to planet earth?"

    Full Article:

    http://larsonewhipsnadee.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-mayans-coronal-mass-ejection-and.html
     
    #73
  24. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Back in reality it look like its not easy to even vote anymore .
     
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  25. BHiC

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    That is interesting. Unfortunately, I really do not think that article is credible. On the top of the page, there is a link to buy the book How to Survive the End of the World as We Know It: Tactics, Techniques, and Technologies for Uncertain Times . It appears to be more about making people buy the book than an actual article.

    Here is an article from a credible source (Discovery news), talking about how solar flares will not affect us -
    The link is - http://news.discovery.com/space/ray-villard-doomsday-theories.html

    If you surf Discovery's site, you can find where they bring up all kinds of doomsday scenarios, multiple times, and none of them hold up to plain science.
     
    #75
  26. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Im a bit disappointed that the simple acknowledgement of scientific theory seems so unnecessarily 'hard' for people to understand.
    Should we 'debate' whether aerodynamic theory , gravitaton theory , climate theory and earth system theory arent quite set , at this point in time?
     
    #76
  27. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    I do not believe that only non-believers are "bad" people. We have all fallen short...the only real important matter, is to realise that we need saving. We have been given grace, but only some want to actually accept that grace. Grace is not an excuse for sin, but grace can be an aid to want to live a better life, knowing that something so undeserved was received for free.
     
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  28. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    My opinion is that we were created that way....I.e. created to have a longing for the Creator and all the mysteries we seek answers for. If we were giving all the answers, or believed 100% from scratch, it would not have been authentic, nor something we discovered in a process by ourselves. This is why relationship between God and man was key....the discovery of truth - and not just instantly, but gradually, so that faith can take a natural course and not a robotic forced one. It is something we essentially have the choice of making for ourselves. I would not want to force someone to love me...i would want someone to choose to love me and realise for themselves, that they "need" to love me.
     
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  29. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    To some extent, yes, but more so no.
    Our "measurements", do not comply to supernatural measurements. Time for example, is not something the Creator would be limited to. So we should be careful to limit grace. When something Supernatural and limitless comes into the situation, power to escape the black hole, would be possible.
     
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  30. chrischris

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    By 'more so no' are you implying you feel its wise and responsable to t rely on the support of 'supernatural' influences to determine the outcomes rather than those we can measure and impact?
     
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  31. PrimeChoice

    PrimeChoice New User

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    Does this mean I can call in sick to work?
     
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  32. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    No. Go be a productive member of society and work.
     
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  33. chrischris

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    Yep. Go to the sick job and produce a society worth it.
     
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  34. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    Well...trust can be something that grows. We have not been left 100% blind. To everyone a measure of faith is given and some part of us, needs to be wise, another part should trust and use faith. As we step out and do things in faith, the trust grows.
     
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  35. chrischris

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    Ok, but please answer my question and i will receive that in good faith and my trust may then grow.
     
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  36. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    If the supernatural influences are based on constants such as goodness and love - yes. If not, no. How do we know if the supernatural is good? We can test practically through relationship, and the already built in faith given us.....the rest will need to be done in faith - a hearts decision, much like the automatic leap of faith a bird does as it leaves the nest. We can either nurture or starve the faith we do have. I would rather choose a God willing to die for my attention, than one who demands attention. Salvation is given more than it is earned. A God who owes us nothing, who has no reason to be humble, showed true example of humility and sacrifice. I want the same humility, for pride makes one fall and the humble will be lifted.

    We were placed on this earth not just to live in faith, but to live in action also. Action often proves faith. We have to partially let go and just believe, yet, in the same breath, make a decision to believe ourselves and take action. It is what we choose to do with the little we know, and the amount of faith we have now. Sometimes, we need to look at the signs.Sometimes we can have control and influence, and sometimes things are out of our control and influence. It is a draw near to the Creator and the Creator will draw near to you kind of thing. The more we get closer, the more we will realise just how unmeasurable the 'supernatural' is, but we will at least get more of a grasp of the scale of things. Our worth and potential is multiplied when we do not try and do everything ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
    #86
  37. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Most of this sounds ok.
    How do you make it happen?
    It looks to me it isnt. Why not?
     
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  38. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    Ask, and it will be given. We receive not, for we ask not. People want the wrong things. Most people get consumed by things they want carnally (wealth, selfish ambition, status etc.) and not by the things that really matter. (Relationships, love, time etc.)

    God made it simple: love Him > love others as we love ourselves. Loving Him, will help us to truly love others. If we know how to love ourselves (identity, and not in a self worship kind of way), we can also know how to love others. - I struggle with this myself. Instead, society has become "self focused" (guilty myself). If God is love, we will only know love, if we know the author of love. In this world we will have many troubles, but He has overcome the world, and with Him in us, we can do the same. The natural progression of things, is to die - everyone will die...everyone will have trouble. No one is exempt. But with God, there is hope - and the pain is shared and the pain will have purpose - for this we need trust. Only when the supernatural comes in our lives, can we live eternally through the supernatural.

    Why is it not happening? Its happening more than we may have expected (China, South Korea). There are more believers now on earth, than ever before (population the result) Will it ever be enough? No...I think most of us will regret the lost - even one lost, can be seen as "many lost". People drowning, cannot be forced to climb into the boat when they are swimming away - and their choice is their freedom to choose. But does everyone know the truth? I think we should rather ask the question of what do those that DO know, do with it? God will deal with those who don't.
     
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  39. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    #89
  40. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    On this earth, we are supposed to be responsible. The article just shows how little we are. I think civilization can basically be compared to a credit card. We buy now, and pay later....not realizing the consequences in time. As individuals, we can actually make a difference. Switching off a light globe not in use, may not sound as much if one person do it...but if millions do it, it makes a difference. The problem is that we are blunt and do not care enough. We selfishly "buy now" and will probably "pay later"
    Will the world perish? Probably...no matter what we do to try and prevent it...(we should do what we can though) - and maybe focus more on things that really matter....extreme poverty vs. extreme wealth, is problematic for me...it is making us more and more selfish, and less and less concerned of those who do struggle.
    So many of us, are hectically wealthy, yet we want more and more...strangling earth and people around us for our own selfish wants. If we can learn to be content with the wealth we do actually have, we will take less and give more.


    “Do what is right, though the world may perish”. Immanuel Kant

    "Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass"
     
    #90
  41. chrischris

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    Ok, but we are NOT born blunt and selfish.
    We are born to be fair and democratic.
     
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  42. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    We are born with natural elements good or bad. From thereon, we are "trained" to do certain things...and also, "decide" certain things for ourselves.

    Some choose to be republican heheh :) :) :)
     
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  43. chrischris

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    We are born to cooperate. Thats the reason we can survive and sit here today.
    There are other things we do but the evidence and fact is we are born to cooperate and as a result of that we are born to make decisions that are democratic.
     
    #93
  44. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    I agree....we are not meant to be doing everything ourselves.

    "it is not good for man to be alone"
     
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  45. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    What proof do you have to show this?
     
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  46. chrischris

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    #96
  47. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    When you get ill, it would be wise not to deal with it yourself. A second person such as a doctor may be required. An individual, simply cannot have all the skills to cope with life as a whole. Somewhere along the line, being alone can only deal with so much.
     
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  48. chrischris

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    OK, i agree in part.
    The doctor is not a good example imo. They get paid for doing it.
    A better example is dads and mums and new borns.
     
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  49. kalyan4fedever

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    4,32000-3800 years still left no ?
     
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  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    How does one "love God?" The concept is just totally out of my grasp.
     

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