Is Blake accusing Nadal, Djokovic and/or Federer of doping?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Paullaconte1, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Paullaconte1

    Paullaconte1 Rookie

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    #1
  2. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    A lot of money attracts a lot of bad behaviour - a cliche, in other words.
     
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  3. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Not necessarily one of them. It's just like he says. When you hype up sports. When Usain Bolt is a God, Federer makes 500 million, Gebressalasi can run for president, and Mo Farrah is a natural hero for the next 100 years, you know there's just too much at stake to think about 'fair play' all the time.
     
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  4. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Obviously a lot of people are gunning for federer, the guy's year-long stamina is unprecedented. At age 30 he lasts the year better than a 25-year-old ever did. But I truly hope federer is never stripped of his 7 wimbledons, because I would hate to think Rafa was robbed of 2 wimbledons (2006, 2007), although I've never really valued wimbledon as much as Roland Garros so not the end of the world.
     
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  5. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    You really only hate for Federer to be using dope because of Nadal? Little world you live in.

    Anyways, you consider Federer a better athlete than Djokovic and Nadal than? Which doping would help hold up knees and your back, and an abdominal tear etc. by the way? Do they show that Nadal's problems wouldn't be there if he was doping?
     
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  6. Tafmatch

    Tafmatch Rookie

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    No stopping this guy :)
     
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  7. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Federer is twice as good as Nadal physically. Federer is like an alien, finishing the season fresher than anyone, despite winning most of his points from the baseline and playing more matches than most players who are several years younger than him. While Nadal struggles to last the clay and grass seasons - Nadal said he played with anti-inflammatories on course to winning his record seventh title at Roland Garros in May, and that he took pain-killing injections at Wimbledon http://sports.ndtv.com/tennis/news/item/198097-nadal-confirmed-for-mexican-open-in-february ).

    LOL well you just proved Nadal doesn't dope, as he's constantly withdrawing with knee problems. Doping would work, no? And Nadal doesn't get back problems (that's Federer, Djokovic and Murray). Oh and the abdominal tear? What is your question regarding that? Look at Nadal's service speeds in the 2009 US Open, they were around 97mph 1st serves! The guy was dying.
     
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  8. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    I am just suggesting that Nadal's injury concerns are hardly doping related. Why would doping help his knee problems? I really don't see it.
     
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  9. Tafmatch

    Tafmatch Rookie

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    Cmon RAFA2005 you can do better.

    Knee problems and doping lol. And have you seen Fed play lately? He's not exactly 'fresh'. Give it up.
     
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  10. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Oh yeah, that's right, Murray beats Federer in straight sets so automatically Federer is not fresh.....

    Meanwhile watch Federer cruise through the remainder of the year while the other guys struggle and withdraw. Seen it all before. What did he win at the end of last year.....was it 3 straight titles?
     
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  11. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    If people can say Nadal is doping, Federer is just as much likely of a serious candidate. (maybe even moreso then Nadal). Fed has never had any serious injuries.. Has he even missed a slam since 2003? He has the insane ability to physically recover even as an OLD tennis player that just seems very odd. He can continue to play dozens and dozens of matches for 10 years straights and never really have any major physical let-downs. That alone can make one shake their hand. How do you do that without the use of some "help?". Especially if you consider his age and how much more physical the game has gotten? Steroids help you recover fast, and get you back out there playing

    All circumstantial, but its easy to point the finger at both Nadal and Federer.. Not to do so is kind of naive.

    If Armstrong has been juicing for a gazillion years, I wouldn't put it by anyone
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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  12. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Your name is pretty ironic given that it is well know fact that Nadal started doping full time around April 2005. He realized he needs to do it in order to compete with Federer after Federer outlasted him in 2005 5 set Miami final.
     
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  13. diggler

    diggler Professional

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    With so much money involved, it is not surprising if players are doping. (Let's not get into a debate about who because that is really childish).

    If the authorities have evidence, is it really in their interests to flush out the drug cheats or is it better to sweep it under the carpet?

    Nine positive drug tests at the 1984 Summer Olympics were allegedly covered up and documentation subsequently destroyed

    http://articles.latimes.com/1994-08-23/sports/sp-30338_1_drug-testing
     
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  14. purple-n-gold

    purple-n-gold Professional

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    tennis char
     
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  15. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    The doping control budget is 1.6 million so they are going to catch no one.
     
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  16. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Essentially.

    They are giving away that much in prize money at the US Open.

    Win the US Open once, and your bankroll is essentially bigger than the doping control budget that is trying to catch 100+ people.
     
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  17. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    Think Blake is really grasping at straws here if he is implying that and has no proof.(not saying rafa or roger are or are not)

    But one thing that is more likely is that Blake did not dope at all even during his run to the top 5 that year. He even refuses anti-inflammatories. He is adamant about this because of his father's bout with stomach cancer and stays off even an advil here and there.
     
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  18. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    Do you ever actually watch tennis matches???

    If you did I dont think you would be questioning Federers physical fitness vs Nadals. Federer does not make a habit of playing every match as if it were a brutal marathon running around for hours on end. In fact I have gotten quite upset at Fed in some of his matches because of his unwillingness to grind it out. For the most part Fed is on or off and when he turns off he can go out rather quickly.
     
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  19. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Innocent before proven guilty people. I used to think nadal was doping in the Aussie 2009 playing those back to back matches but I doubt either of the two are. Fed is a very smart scheduler and Paganini is doing a great job
     
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  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    The Federer allegations are absurd. If you watch clips from him in 2005-2006 and him now, there are two completely different players. The former player was so aggressive that he'd simply blow people off the court. His serve wasn't that great and hit shot selection didn't need to be because he could create angles not known to mathematics. The Federer today is much, MUCH slower, but still moves around the court better than just about anyone because he relies less on footspeed and more on anticipation. He chooses each shot purposefully, uses a slice MUCH more often to construct points, puts in droppers, and these days if he's not serving well, he won't win. If he is serving well, not even Djoker beats him. Federer doesn't destroy his body because he does not run it into the ground like everyone else...because he doesn't need to. He's just far smarter than the field. PEDs do not improve your intelligence.
     
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  21. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, but PEDs improve your ability to recover, which is useful for a tennis player, no matter who you are, and what style of play you choose to showcase.

    No one is above suspicion.
     
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  22. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    All these allegations to all the players (especially the top 4) by everybody on these boards is absurd. As RF20Lennon said, it's innocent until proven guilty. Period.
     
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  23. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    They probably both dope. Most elite athletes today do.
     
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  24. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Saying that is a cop out - the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that Nadal dopes. By your statement, you're trying to convince yourself that it's ok by inferring that Fed also dopes.
     
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  25. dimeaxe

    dimeaxe Semi-Pro

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    The thing about Federer is, that he has the best doctor in the team, who worked with him since 02/03.I don't know the guy's name, but I know that he previously worked as an official ATP doctor, after which he was hired by Federer.
    I'm not insulting anyone, but I'm sure that this guy knows best how to recover Roger after grueling matches, and I'm sure that he knows how to cover illegal substances and other things.So I'm not accusing Roger, but I'm sure that he's not 100% clean as many people want him to be, no one is, Rafa, Novak, they're all using something.
     
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  26. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, it's obvious he's just being realistic about the state of today's professional sports (not just tennis).
     
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  27. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    I disagree, their games are polar opposites. Nadal's is based on sheer strength and endurance - I call him a Ferrer 2.0 (another doper confirmed due to association with Dr Del Moral).
     
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  28. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    No idiot, you can look up my posts under doping or dope and I have said that over a hundred times when talking about various other sports. I am very consistent with that viewpoint. I beileve virtually all elite athletes these days and for years dope. Only naive fools have ever believed otherwise.
     
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  29. Macro80

    Macro80 Rookie

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    I just farted.
     
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  30. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, people always pointed the finger at Nadal because he had a much more muscular physique than Fed (particularly when he was younger. Nadal slimmed down considerable as he aged), but it was always a silly way to look at it. Most dopers are not musclebound types. They simply take the type of PED's that aid recovery.

    I agree with the belief that almost all high level competitive, physical sport has PED issues, and tennis is no different. Fed is just as suspect as Nadal, and it would come as no shock if all the top 4 were exposed at some later date. Djokovic was the worst though. He was so blatant about it. It was almost comical how most of the tennis world turned a blind eye to what was going on, and pretended that he'd suddenly become the new GOAT through a gluten free diet or whatever. The stakes are so high, and the rewards so great (and the chances of getting caught so low) that you can see why they'd do it. Djokovic wanted to be truly in the conversation with Nadal and Fed, and he took the best option avialable to him.

    It's the exact same thing that happened in cycling. Everyone, from the Federations to the tennis journalists know what's going on, but they are all tacitly turning a blind eye to it, because everyone eats well off the success and attention the top players bring to the game. If some of these guys ever get exposed, everyone will pretend to be shocked and disgusted though. Bit of a joke really.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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  31. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Somehow I don't see Blake as having any special information on this topic
     
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  32. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    Personally I wouldn't be suprised if Federer started an increased doping regime around late 2008.

    On the other hand I wouldn't be suprised if Nadal however has been heavily doping since late in his junior career with his insane physique at a young age and insane stamina. Federer is no victim here, he's won 17 slams, but then constant defeats caused Federer to compete himself and start a doping regiment similar to Nadals.

    Then Djokovic entered the fray in 2011.

    Notice how all these top players have connections to weird "doctors".

    Nadal with Eufemiano Fuentes, who also has connections with Armstrong.

    Djokovic with Dr. Igor.

    Federer with his parents connection with multinational phaermaecompany.

    Problem is doping is an arms race, you must compete in the race or never even have a chance to finish within the top 6, you'll never be a top player like you deserve unless you are willing to do what all your competitors are doing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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  33. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Personal attacks (your idiot comment) are quite immature. You haven't addressed my post at all. I shouldn't have to 'look up your posts" to validate your point.

    BTW, since you're convinced that 'virtually all elite athletes' dope, does the mean that Fed is possibly not a doper?

    On the other hand, if you're convinced that Nadal is doping, why choose him as part of your username here?
     
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  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yeah the children of the tens of thousands of parents who are employed in the pharma industry are all doping.
     
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  35. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Quite possible, I concur. Not sure about the pharma connection as that means what? Does Fed's dad dope him with secret drugs his company manufactures? There is no need for that at all - there are lots of doping doctors out there that get the best stuff surreptitiously.
     
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  36. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I suspect several TT posters are doping but I have no proof
     
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  37. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    I've suspected some are on something as they type though not necessarily anything enhancing.

    We'd be stupid o think that the sport is clean,(sadly) there are so many athletes on "the tour" that there must be a fair few that haven't been caught.
    Of course there have been scandals before, but there has often been an excuse or "explanation" as to why a product has appeared in a sample, then neatly glossed over. I would like to see all of the top 75 tested every week in and out of competition between now and say RG. (it's 6 months ish no other reason than that) Untill they discover and make an example of a top player there will always be rumours it's just human nature to wonder why someone is so much better than yourself!
    In the great Nadal debate, I think there is a chance, no idea what mind you, i would of said he just works out a lot but he seems to indicate himself he doesn't which fails to stop people wondering. IT is interesting that we have he and Fed at the same time but 4 or 5 years apart giving a good look into the (more) traditional style of play and the run till you drop to show how quickly it'll wear you out though.
     
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  38. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    I suspect a certain tt poster is a dope, but only have circumstantial evidence.

    It does manufacturer epo, growthhormone, testosterone. I'm not saying a board of directors and the ceo huddle around a boardroom table and discuss how they will expedite a doping program, but by and chance his parents having a career in the in a company that manufacturers this stuff could open up alot of doors and underhand connections, in all likelyhood though Feds parents don't even know what might be going on, however it simply because of proximity possibly could give rise to certain connections.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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  39. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I believe there should be a stickied thread for doping on these forums, because there's way too many individual threads on it.

    Proof doesn't matter anymore, as the Lance Armstrong case has shown. Now people are presumed guilty just if they're suspected of doping. It's vigilantism at its finest.

    This guilty until proven innocent attitude and retrospective stripping of results, is a cancer that will kill professional sport if it continues.

    Not in Lance Armstrong's case. His refusal to enter into plea bargains and spend millions of dollars on lawyers is presumed to be Armstrong admitting guilt.
     
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  40. nyc

    nyc Hall of Fame

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    I think anyone on these boards with a higher than 7 posts per Day average is using PEDs.

    How else could they maintain that high average? My fingers would fall OFF.
     
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  41. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    Mustard, another guy came out just TODAY from Armstrongs race team to admit to doping.

    12 members of Armstrongs team now admit to doping.

    [​IMG]
    Former Lance Armstrong Teammate Kjaergaard Admits to Using Drugs

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/23/us-cycling-armstrong-kjaergaard-idUSBRE89M0KV20121023
     
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  42. corners

    corners Legend

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    Have you read the USADA report? I'ts utterly damning. Armstrong is guilty as sin; anyone who reads even a portion of the report can see that, plain as day.

    Do you also object to the stripping of Marion Jones' medals? Just like Lance, she also employed doctors that were too good at doping and hiding doping to get caught red-handed with a positive test. Just like Lance she swore up and down that she never used drugs and that she had never tested positive. But in the end she was stripped of her medals in the same way that Lance was finally caught. These are criminal conspiracies and at this point they can only be broken up through investigative reporting, detective work, eyewitness testimony (Conte and Hunter in Jones' case, half the USPS team in Armstrong's case) - law enforcement, basically.

    Your argument seems to be that only positive tests count. But the whole point is that the cheaters are too good at avoiding the tests. Ultimately, by continuing to support cheaters who have been caught after the fact by good law enforcement work you are saying that it's OK to dope as long as you don't get caught. Which is the same thing that dopers tell themselves.
     
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  43. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I do object to stripping medals of people who werent caught with a positive drug test, since as virtually all their competitors were doping as well, they beat them doing what everyone else was doing (be that Marion Jones, Lance, etc...) and part of the game is not getting caught, and most are successful at it, and obviously they were as it took a witchhunt which their competitors were not subjected to in order to take them down.

    The only people I laugh at are the ones naive are stupid enough to believe that the vast majority of World class athletes are clean, ROTFL!!!
     
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  44. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    LOL Armstrong himself took down his own titles on Facebook, no?
     
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  45. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Marion Jones admitted doping and lying under oath, the latter of which saw her jailed. Why do people keep comparing her case to Armstrong's? My argument, corners, is that the evidence against Armstrong was as a result of plea bargains and people with axes to grind. People don't seem to realise that this evidence is compromised by plea bargaining, i.e. blackmail.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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  46. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    is Bud Collins doping?

    I think so.
     
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  47. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Marion didnt fail a drug test though, just like Lance. It took a witchhunt to take her down, just as it did him, things others were not subjected to. The fact she chose to be honest and Lance didnt (a mistake on his part as reportedly they were only going to strip him of 2 of his 7 titles rather than all 7 had he admited to doping, due t the statue of limitations rule of 8 years which he would have been protected by) is not exactly something in his favor. Note I do agree both were treated unfairly as what both have in common is they never failed a drugs test, and as it is clear virtually all their competitors like them doped, especialy in sports like cycling and sprinting (even if there are some doubters on tennis, there should be no doubters whatsoever on those two sports) and for all others successfully evading the drug tests is enough, it should be enough for them. They were made scapegoats and made an example of, which was unfair to both of them.
     
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  48. Mila

    Mila New User

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    good one :D
     
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  49. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks for confirming the plea bargaining that goes on. The USADA basically went to Armstrong and said "go public and admit to doping, and we'll strip you of 2 Tour de France titles". Armstrong refused as he had never tested positive for a banned substance under the rules of cycling. This was blackmail by the USADA and per-verting the course of justice.

    Plea bargaining should be banned, period.
     
    #49
  50. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    It doesn't seem like he's implying those top guys specifically, perhaps others down the ladder that need a boost, to possibly win that elusive prize, that has grown so large that some will risk everything to obtain it.
     
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