Is Borg a GOAT candidate?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by 5555, Nov 11, 2012.

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Is Borg a GOAT candidate?

  1. Yes

    40 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Budge won 9 straight, as well: his last 6 as an amateur, and his first 3 as a pro.
     
  2. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Did you miss the bit where I said "at all levels"? Laver won a load of big tournaments in his career.

    Johnston would have been a dominant player if it hadn't had been for Tilden. A bit like Pancho Segura for much of the 1950s, if it hadn't had been for Gonzales.

    Almost certainly, but travelling across the world was much more inconvenient in those days.

    The 1927 French Championships final saw Rene Lacoste beat Bill Tilden by 6-4, 4-6, 5-7, 6-3, 11-9. Was Henri Cochet a line judge? Seriously? Doesn't that call line judge impartiality into question? Tilden was back playing in Europe for the first time in 6 years because of the threat the Musketeers posed to Tilden's dominance. Tilden had an even more frustrating loss at 1927 Wimbledon, when he blew a 2-set and 5-1 in the third set lead against eventual champion, Cochet.

    Tilden won the WHCC at the Stade Francis, Paris in 1921, and the 1927 French Championships was also held there (the last one before it moved to Roland Garros in 1928 ). Tilden failed to win the French Championships as an amateur, but he won 2 French Pros (in 1933 and 1934), beating Cochet and Martin Plaa in the respective finals.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  3. Talker

    Talker Hall of Fame

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    Didn't know they wore spiked shoes back then.
    At some spots the court was in terrible condition.

    Too bad the video was so limited in that ERA and even well into the seventies.
     
  4. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    If you look at Laver in the two videos notice the big differences between the Laver of 1975 and the Laver of 1969, I believe Laver had some injuries that hampered his serve and I understand he had a wrist injury that hampered him for the rest of his career. He obviously was slower and I think his forehand, which arguably was the best in tennis was a much lesser shot in 1975. Laver was still pretty good in 1975 but obviously not the Laver of 1969 and the Laver of 1969 according to a number of people like Vines was not the peak Laver of 1964 to 1967.

    Incidentally I've seen the US Open at Forest Hills and when you write the court was in terrible condition you're being nice.

    Laver in 1967 versus Borg in 1979 would have been a battle for the ages.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    krosero, Thanks for the information. I was not aware of it.

    But it works for Budge only if we exclude the 1939 Southport event. Southport was sometimes called the British Pro and I rate it as a pro major. Nüsslein, the winner, also valued it as a major tournament.
     
  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Yes it's a problem, the whole question of what's a major. I'm sure Southport could be rated a major, just that I would argue for Budge at least getting a mention when this streak is mentioned. Wrongly or rightly, we usually think of Wembley, French Pro and US Pro as the three pro majors.

    IMO it's a little like the situation with the Slams. There were many years when the AO, RG, even Wimbledon had depleted fields not worthy of a true major: but when Grand Slam records are kept (like GS streaks), we still count those four, and no others.

    But no question, the pro scene is more ambiguous, and there were certainly other major tournaments. The whole thing is confusing at times.
     
  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    krosero, I agree.
     
  8. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I have not yet found a newspaper report from the time period that mentions the incident. Without question Tilden did reach double match point on his own serve. The NY Times and other papers I've checked say only that Tilden didn't convert them, or that he made errors on them.

    Frank Deford mentioned the incident in his Tilden bio. He quoted from an interview with Frank Hunter, who was Tilden's doubles partner at that event (they lost to Borotra and Lacoste the day before the singles finals, amid rumors of ill feeling between the two teams).

    The press reported after the final that the Americans protested some decisions made by French officials during the final but did not protest any decisions made by Cochet.

    TIME magazine actually reported that during the Tilden-Cochet semifinal, the umpire made decisions that went against Cochet, and Tilden refused to accept them.

    So if the incident against Lacoste happened, that would be something, for Cochet to receive favors from Tilden during their semifinal, and then rob Tilden during the final.

    Not saying whether the incident occurred or not, but it's an interesting issue.
     
  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Don´t forget that it is in their genetic that frenchmen get bumped up when facing a US team.From lacoste and Cochet till Noah and Leconte.

    Jean Louis Haillet was a mediocre player but he played the only real great tennis in his life to beat Budge Patty, one of the finest ever cc american player, at RG with the fans going crazy.
     
  10. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I think it was Robert Haillet who was a fine claycourter. He once beat Rosewall and once won a set against Muscles by 6-0!
     
  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Correction accepted.We meant the same guy, his name was Robert.
     

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