is Defense of a Title a Measure of Greatness

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnroeisanartist, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

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    How important is defense of a Title a Measure of Greatness?

    If you compared Federer and Nadal at a similiar point in their career - 2012/2007 Basel, Federer has defended the following tournaments:

    Vienna (1)
    Halle (3)
    Wimbledon (4)
    ATP World Tour Finals (2)
    Australian Open (1)
    Dubai (2)
    Indian Wells (2)
    U.S. Open (3)
    Miami (1)
    Hamburg (1)
    Bangkok (1)
    Doha (1)

    Federer defended at 3 Grand Slams, the ATP World Tour Finals, and 3 Masters Series Tournaments. He defended on all three surfaces.

    Nadal has defended the following tournaments:
    Monte Carlo (7)
    Barcelona (5)
    Rome (3)
    The French Open (5)

    Nadal defended 1 Grand Slam and 2 Masters Series Tournaments. He defended on one surface.
     
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  2. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Ummm, why is defense of a title more a "Measure of Greatness" (the sense of self-importance in these threads is stupefying) than winning titles that one didn't win last year???
     
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  3. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    I don't really care that much about defending titles, though it is impressive if you can win an event several years in a row. But Nadal has done that obviously (8 MC titles in a row is insane)

    But you know I don't think winning Miami 2 years in a row is any better than wining IW one year and Miami the next for instance.

    Of course the fact that Federer has Defended 3 of the slams, is impressive but just because he has managed to own 3 different slams.
     
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  4. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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  5. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    This. It is a useless stat because if you are looking to measure consistency as a sign of greatness all you need to know comes from titles/slam won in consecutive years.

    Now if you are looking to figure out what tournaments a player likes best/suits them the best, then you can use title defense as an indicator.
     
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  6. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

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    So what you are saying is that Federer has had 3X as many tournaments that have better suited his game than have suited Nadal's.
     
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  7. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    OP, you are slightly pro-Fed biased, no?
     
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  8. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

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    Stats do not have a bias. Am I biased in the number of posts about him, yes of course. But, I think I have started to somewhat diversify my posts about other players recently.
     
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  9. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Indirectly yes, although another way to spin it would be Federer's game is more suited for 3x as many surfaces. However in general this stat doesnt even tell us that as you could well have the following

    Player one : wins IW every year
    Player 2 : alternates between winning IW and Miami

    Both should be equal but this stat would 'consider' player 1 the better player for defending his IW title. not really a useful metric.
     
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  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    yes, if you are called Bjorn Borg and, year after year, defend your fortress at both sides of the Channel.
     
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  11. 1972murat

    1972murat New User

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    I am not sure if that is a measure of greatness but there might be something in there about being consistent and not being bothered playing with a bulls-eye on your back and still coming through...
     
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  12. absurdo

    absurdo Rookie

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    i bealieve defending a title is an important thing. not sure if its a measure of greatness but sure means something.

    there is extra pressure when you are the defending champ. there is extra pressure when you are suposed to win. there is extra pressure when you are number 1 and everyone else is fighting to take your spot. there is extra pressure when you are playing for the history books.

    its allways easier to be the underdog.
     
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  13. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    4 times. How could you miss that?
     
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  14. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Nadal defended the French like a billion times, and yet the haters are still trolling all over. So I guess to them it's not a measure.
     
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  15. Ico

    Ico Hall of Fame

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    Still waiting on a single title defense off of clay. Heck, any win off of clay would be a surprise at this point. Have to go back to Tokyo 2010 for one of those.
     
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  16. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Still waiting for ******* to defend something off of hardcourts. Heck,any win off of hardcourt would be a surprise at this point. We have to go all the way back to July 2011 for one of those,and before that it was even more pathetic.
     
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  17. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    And yet he's gonna win 17 Slams :lol:
     
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  18. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    I hope that Cvac will never again win a title on grass and clay, only that you would be happy :)
     
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  19. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    There are more hardcourt tournaments than there are anything else. Hardcourts are his best surface. You don't see the correlation?
     
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  20. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I am just pointing out the hypocrisy amongst the people here. When Nadal doesn't win off of clay it's a travesty worthy of an old fashioned hanging,but when hardcourt specialists such as ******* don't win anything off of hardcourt,not a word is said about it.
     
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  21. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    When it comes to Nadal...there is no reasoning.
     
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  22. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    You are right, you just have to go back to Tokyo. You get drinks and pretzels from the convenience store and walk around the Shinobazu pond. And discuss with various people about why Nadal is much greater than Federer and feed the various pond birds with your leftover pretzel crumbs… And question the various goons about why Sofitel on the pond got demolished.
     
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