Is Djokovic an all-time great?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 5555, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    What I meant is that the moment after he achieved 3AOs in a row, he should be considered an all time great.

    He still has a long ways to go before reaching the same level as other all time greats like Fed, Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, etc. but he will certainly be someone who is talked about in tennis for a long long time (which IMO makes one an all time great).
     
  2. Subventricular Zone

    Subventricular Zone Rookie

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    A 6-time grand slam champion is already an all-time great. Question is how far up the ladder of greats he will go.
     
  3. Danny_G13

    Danny_G13 Rookie

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    For me if Djokovic hadn't double faulted to gift Nadal RG last year I'd have said that him defeating him in the 4 slam finals in a row made him the greatest player ever.

    That achievement, alone, in this era, is untouchable because none of the big 4 have done it.

    But Djokovic came the closest.
     
  4. NoZak Djokovic

    NoZak Djokovic Rookie

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    Yes , simply because of his 2011 season. To be honest anyone WITH a slam is an all time great as they have done what 127 other players in that tournament couldnt do
     
  5. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Sure. He's right up there with Trabert, Sedgman, and Crawford.
     
  6. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Is that a fact or a matter of opinion?
     
  7. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    ah yes, the mighty donald young..enhancing his greatness by being world no 199 rank (or whatever) :neutral:
     
  8. FormerNadalFan

    FormerNadalFan Rookie

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    Well, he's pretty darn good, that's for sure.
     
  9. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    To answer the question, you have to project ahead and make a guess as to how he'll finish his career. I think most assume he will win multiple slams in the future and has a good chance of completing the career slam (very possibly this year). So, I think he is an all-time great.
     
  10. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Not yet, but he's getting there.
     
  11. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Novak is definitely in the top 15-20 of tennis greats.
     
  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He is between 25 and 30 at best.maybe further down.
     
  13. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Novak has 6 majors which by itself puts him at 21 on the all time list.

    His 41-0 year , almost winning a slam but for the rain , having a great record inspite of playing alongside the GOAT and a great - all puts him in the 15-20 mark.
     
  14. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    Yes, with 6 Majors, 2 cons years best player in the world, one of the best winning streak ever and one of the best season in Open era!
     
  15. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    No, you did not, because you did not provide the explanation.

    I won the argument.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  16. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    I suppose Super Kodes and God Hoad are much higher on your list
     
  17. spperry

    spperry Rookie

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    I think so.

    He has beaten all the current best players in Grand Slams.

    This is one of the strongest eras of tennis there has been.

    He still has a lot more GS to compete in and should win quite a few more and I think even now can legitimately compare himself to the best players that have played the game.
     
  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Hoad is in another league of course, I rate Djokovic higher tham Kodes but again Weak Era vs Golden Era factors so much in number of majors and dominance
     
  19. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    he's in the conversation for sure, but can't be mentioned in the same breath as Federer, Laver, Sampras and Nadal yet. He needs a few more slams and such for that imo.

    He's getting close though, very quickly... it's surprising actually...
     
  20. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Sampras and Nadal are not in the same tier than Laver and Fed too. Nole will be in the top 10 in a few years. Maybe at the end of this one.
     
  21. xan

    xan Professional

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    id like to see just one tennis expert that shares your opinion. even a quack one.
    just for the laughs...
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I know one: kiki
     
  23. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    it's true that federer and laver are above nadal and sampras, but it's also clear than novak isn't at thier level (i.e. sampras and nadal's) yet int erms of achievement. that's what i was getting at. he is in his prime now, so he has a chance.
     
  24. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    The explanation was there for everyone to see. I rest my case.
     
  25. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    in my opinion he is. he practically equaled becker and edberg at slam count both all time greats and maybe who knows he will pass agassi. also two consecutive year end no.1? this has not happened since federer did it last time in 2007. and he might alao pass nadal at weeks at no.1. he has more masters than sampras and more WTF than both agassi and nadal. yeah i think he really is
     
  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He is top 15-20 open era but putting him top 15-20 ever means leaving aside some preopen era greats
    He should be right now around 25 all time which is great and still time left to improve it
     
  27. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Including peak level of play he's probably top 10. Achievements alone he isn't an all time great yet. I think the treshold is around 10 slams for that...
     
  28. Skarter

    Skarter New User

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    So in the history of open era, there are only 4 all time greats?
     
  29. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    lol, this guy trying to argue a couple of old guys as being in the same league as players from the past 30 years.

    Must be getting senile in old age.
     
  30. Fedex

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    I'll keep bumping this thread to remind everyone that Djokovic is an all time great.
    And I'll create countless other admiring threads disecting Djokovic's greatness and various stats and strokes just to keep reminding everyone of Djokovic's greatness.

    Yes he is an all time great or certainly will be soon barring injury and it was obvious a long time ago that he was going to be a strong contender.
    Even a spasticated monkey knows that so let's ease off on the Djokovic ass licking for a bit can we?

    I'd like to start a Robin Van Persie is an all time great sequence now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3pP7xaOg5s
     
  31. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    You would commit logical fallacy argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) if you would use opinion of most posters to support your claim.

    You have lost it.
     
  32. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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  33. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Did I say that? I said with his peak play which is probably one of the highest ever he could be top 10. Achievements wise he's not even close. Maybe top 10 was a bit of an exaggeration, definately top 15.
     
  34. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Why don't you just keep these comments in your signature instead of repeating the same old crap. :twisted:
     
  35. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    Logical fallacy argumentum ad populum. I love that.
    Haven't bothered to read your link but the name says it all - the power and influence of the mob.
    If I speak BS enough times and persuade others to copy, create a chain reaction of opinion and normalise. Bingo!
    I will regurgitate that against my girlfriend next time she quotes her friends opinions lining up with hers in an argument to justify her oft irrational and unbearable hormonal behaviour.
    That will stop her in her tracks. Or maybe not? It'll surely at least make her pause for thought before carrying on the narking onslaught.
    Thank you 5555. I knew something useful would eventually come of this thread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  36. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    It's perhaps ironic that 5555 brought up a logical fallacy that regards the opinions of many as not necessarily being direct evidence of a claim...

    But his whole premise for this thread is based on the opinions of many people. So he's been committing fallacy after fallacy this whole time.

    And his argument is both illogical and also holds no more ground than anyone else's.
     
  37. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Good.

    It's not crap.

    Firstly, the only reason I quoted 6 tennis experts in my opening post, is to show it's not just Djokotards who claim that Novak is an all-time great. It's not my argument for claim that Djokovic is an all-time great, and therefore I have not commited logical fallacy.

    Secondly, had I used these opinions as argument, I would not have commited argumentum ad populum, but argumentum ad verecundiam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority.

    Thirdly, this is my argument: "I think Djokovic is an all-time great. He won 5 slams (fact) and was No. 1 for 2011 and 2012 (fact)." http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7099413&postcount=349
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  38. severus

    severus Rookie

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    Let's be clear about something here Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are 3 best player ever. Does anyone here really believe Laver is better than Djoke or even Murray for that matter ?:?
     
  39. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    We´ll ever know, since he plays in the dullest era since open tennis inception.djokovic is fortunate to have been born in current non golden era...if not...
     
  40. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Thank you!
     
  41. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    He will be.
     
  42. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Not at all.
     
  43. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Not only an all time great but climbing the greatness stairway fast...frankly, I think it's inevitable he becomes the best Eastern European player of all time, surpassing Lendl. At this point right now I got to say he's better than Hoad, Wilander, Becker, Edberg and his peak is incredible.
     
  44. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    But this was widely considered a golden era untill Federer climbed to nr 1 again, ok lets not go there again, sorry...
     
  45. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    I think what 5555 meant is that people's opinions are swayed away from that of the independent mind by virtue of the opinion of the masses.
    He would be referring not to intellectual, free thinking opinion but the opinion of, for example, the sheep minded football crowd.
    Eg to the shame of my own football club, Dundee FC, certain elements of the Derry stand at Dens Park sang a song of jubilation at the death of ex Dundee United owner Eddie Thomson at Sunday's Scottish Cup tie.
    Some of my Dundee United, otherwise known as dirty arab, friends were appalled at this shocking behaviour and, of course, elements of their fans would never do such a thing ha ha. Of course not.
    As if one Dundonian is gentically a different species from the next by token of which team they support - the dark blue or the orange.
    Argumentum ad populum is a very conducive medium for the transmission of hypocisy, ignorance, hate, bigotry and any other vile human sentiment.
    I'm feeling lazy now and I need to watch Man U vs Real and I don't know where I'm going with this but it's interesting so please continue on...
     
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    oooooohhhhhhh¡¡¡ how wooooo nderfuuuuuulll¡¡¡
     
  47. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    what did you consider Golden Era?
     
  48. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    fantastic I know.
     
  49. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I think more or less every decade has its golden aspects, but I am not going there....
     
  50. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I think the golden era was probably the Borg, Mac, Connors, Lendl etc... Although I think Federer in full flight is as entertaining a player as there ever has been. I like Djokovic, and Nadal can put on good matches too, I think Hewitt, Roddick, Safin etc...were better players too than you give them credit for. But I digress...
     

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