Is Djokovic Winning his Majors in a Weak Era?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by OddJack, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Yeah yeah yeah, he's good, with all the stats, the 2011 season and all that.

    No Nadal, only Old Fed who used to stop him in majors...

    I know he won majors when Nadal and Fed were around, but they are both past their primes now and for the next 10 majors there will be no real rival for him.

    Murray has only recently has made a move and even now its obvious he cant keep up with him physically.

    If he swipes the majors this year it's because of a perfect timing when a weak era has emerged.
     
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  2. Hops

    Hops Rookie

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    Don't you know there has never been a strong era in the history of tennis? Just like the turtles, it's weak eras all the way down.
     
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  3. ManFed

    ManFed Rookie

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    No Doubt. Djokovic emerge just because Fed and Nadal are way past their primes. They can not compete physically anymore. Roger is aging, it is a natural process where he is not able to compete 5 sets is a slow surface against a pusher anymore. Nadal is just too injured, his knees won't hold a 5 set matches against Djoko.

    Murray is just not good enough. No really talented youngsters. Djokovic is in a perfect time to win CYGS.

    People has to accept this. If this Djoko were playing against Prime Fed and Prime Nadal, he would not have any chances except for AO.
     
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  4. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    yes, anytime Rafa is injured or not playing tennis is a weak era. so pre 2005 is a weak era and post AO 2012 is a week era.


    there are multiples spots showcasing weak eras between 2005 and 2012 as well, considering rafa has been out of play a few times.


    the next strong era will be in february 2014 when rafa finally returns, ascending to his throne.
     
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  5. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    I doubt the next 4-5 years will be strong and steeped with talent depth.

    So:

    Old Federer
    Nadal out for almost a year (who knows if he returns to top level)
    Pusher Murray who can't let go of the mental demons that plague him

    ... And a 31 year old Ferrer with NO WEAPONS at all as the only other real top threat


    I guess so..

    But Fed didn't exactly play in a golden era either when he amassed double digit slams
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    #5
  6. Hops

    Hops Rookie

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    you fool there are no golden eras. every era is full of hacks, old washed up players and mental defectives, and one or two real players get lucky and take advantage
     
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  7. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    federer played against prime nadal for half of his career, No1e's prime and rafa's prime didnt overlap. djoke nearly primed on rafa's mid career decline.


    their primes wont overlap until next year when rafa comes back to kick No1e's butt and take is name, which is No1e.
     
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  8. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    2004-2007, Nadal was still learning the game off of clay and didn't reach a HC slam semis until after Fed's supposed "prime". So he didn't even have to deal with an all surface Nadal until after 2007.

    But I will give Fed the benefit of the doubt.. The field was deeper in 2004-2007 overall then it is now

    Id say Nadal had it the worst. He had to deal with prime Federer and peak Nole.

    Nole will have plenty of chances to rack up slams now with Fed old, and Nadal out.. Unless Nadal comes back to challenge Nole that is. However, its not looking very likely at this point
     
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  9. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    Yep, however many slams he wins, divide it by two. :lol:
     
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  10. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    In my opinion

    Federer's peak/prime years 2003-2008
    Nadal's peak/prime years 2005-2010

    Novak 2008-2013
    Murray 2012-2017

    anything they win after those 6 years is a bonus.
     
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  11. ManFed

    ManFed Rookie

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    The field was deeper when Fed started to rise and before this risen than it is now.

    Djoko emerge = Safin + Hewitt + Roddick emerge at 2000 - 2002. The difference is that the field was deeper and there were still surface specialists since the courts were really diferent at that time. Safin and Hewitt were good enough of hard courts but at grass and clay there were specialist who despite being old or injured could play well there.

    Djoko has no real opossition now that Fed is Old and Nadal is injured and the surfaces are just the same all over the year.
     
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  12. GoodVibrations

    GoodVibrations Rookie

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    I love that Murray suddenly "just isn't good enough" when about 40% of this board predicted that he'd win the AO.
     
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  13. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Those are just "Mards"

    Murray can't beat Nole on the big stage unless Nole lays a big egg like he did in the USO finals
     
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  14. OHBH

    OHBH Semi-Pro

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    Really? take a look at the old ranking in past years

    In 1990 you had 16 slam/eventual slam winners in the top 50 now we have 5 slam winners(granted we cannot be sure about eventual slam winners) and one of them has been sidelined most of the season. There is no depth in the second tier.
     
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  15. loci

    loci Rookie

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    weak era = poly strings and slower surfaces.
     
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  16. djokovic2008

    djokovic2008 Hall of Fame

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    Hewit= no power no threat
    Roddick=no brains no touch or feel
    Safin= inconsistent, head case

    You call this strong lol
     
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  17. Jeffrey573639

    Jeffrey573639 Semi-Pro

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    era is on silent ban
     
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  18. ManFed

    ManFed Rookie

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    They battled against a deeper field. There were Old Sampras, Old Ivanisevic, Old Rafter, Old Krajicek and Henmann who could play well in the fast grass prior to 2002. There were good clay court specialists although old or injured or inconsistent like Old Kafelnikov, Old Moya, Kuerten, Chela, Ferrero, Costa, Gaudio etc. Agassi was there too in all surfaces, and he was playing well at that time. And of course, they battled against their own generation who were youngster at that time Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Federer, Nalbandian, Hass, etc.

    Djoko has nobody to battle against anymore. Old Fed who can only be a threat at Wimbledon if it is fast. Injured Nadal whose knees would only hold at clay and Murray who can only be a real obstacle at grass and fast hard courts.

    No Doubt 2000 - 2002 has a much deeper field at Tier 1 and Tier 2 than today. The Djoker is winning the slams Hewitt, Safin, Roddick won at their time. Just look all the good player there were back at that time. Nowadays just three good players one is Old (Federer) and way past his prime; the other is Injured most of the time (Nadal) and the other is just not good enough even at his peak (Murray).

    Peak Sampras, Peak Federer, Peak Nadal, Peak Safin and Peak Agassi; at least, could mop the floor with Peak Djoker at hard courts. At grass, a lot of players at their peak would mop the floor with Novak. At clay also a lot of player would defeat Novak (Peak Kuerten, Nadal, Peak Federer, Peak Agassi, etc).
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
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  19. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Lol...that's virtually the same as saying Murray can't beat Djokovic on the big stage unless he actually does which he did at the USO finals, no matter what size and consistency of egg Djokovic was trying to lay.

    Ergo...Murray has proved that he can beat Djokovic on the big stage because he has done so. Now whether he can do it consistently is yet to be seen.
     
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  20. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    1st federer weak era, then nadal weak era and now djokovic weak era

    maybe its opposite of weak era,

    1st federer strong era, then nadal strong era and then djokovic strong era
     
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  21. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    The only strong era in the history of tennis was the week that Brad Gilbert won Cincy. Brad Gilbert is the GOAT.
     
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  22. New Era UK

    New Era UK Banned

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    Wawrinka would have dominated 2004-2007 with that quarter final performance.
     
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  23. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Pretty weak yeah.
     
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  24. New Era UK

    New Era UK Banned

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    I think Federer would have prefered Roddick, Hewitt, Blake or Baghdatis anytime over Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Berdych and Del Potro or even Tsonga.
     
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  25. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    It's a completely unknowable question to answer. It's impossible to know how good players from the past would have been if they grew up in the environment of today -- we don't even know with any significant degree of confidence what the environment will be like once, say, Djokovic and Murray retire in 5-8 years. All one can do is appreciate what players do in the era they are in. Anything else is speculation.
     
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  26. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    What the fck is a mard you retarded prck! Most of those so called mards were non Murray supporters.

    Tired injured Murray still nearly beat peak fresh Djokovic if you want to play that stupid game.

    What is wrong with so many of you negative fckers?

    I can see so many of you have really sad lives and need to deride and mock people who are far more successful to make yourselves feel better and get the poison out.

    So tell me what do you do for a living mate? Unemployed, shelf stacker, fast food worker, no money, spotty and ugly maybe. Must be something.
    Sit behind your computer taking your frustrations out on people who can't defend themselves. Very brave of you you sad prck.

    Feel free to email me and we can carry this on. I'd be glad to talk or meet you and tell you face to face what a sad failure you are over and over.

    Let's do it. My email is here. prck!
     
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  27. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Just out of curiosity, I think Murray and Novak is of the same age. Why do you think Murray will be in his peak till age 30 and Djokovic ONLY till age 26?
     
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  28. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    I think if you look at who the players are that consistently make the semis of the major tournaments, it does seem to always be the top 4 players, but I think that is more a case of a gulf in talent between them and the next 4 or 5 players.

    I think with Nadal being out, it does weaken the competition and you can more or less select the winner from the top 3. Federer is obviously getting older (arent we all), but until he came up against an on-form Murray, he rarely broke sweat in any game. Similar to Murray really.

    And some of the tennis the top 3 play is quite brilliant really, so I dont think its a weak era as such, I just think they are so much better than the rest, they make it look weak.
     
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  29. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    I wouldn't base Murray's chances on this last match, if that's what you're doing. Roger at his best would have a hard time beating Novak right now. In my opinion the Novak that showed up against Stan would own the h2h against a prime Federer. But I do agree this is a weak era, but then it was even weaker years ago when Roger was gathering up slams before the Spanish Winter.
     
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  30. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Disagree, Fed is still a tough player to beat, his level of play is still very high and Murray has always been a terrific player and is that much more dangerous since his slam final mental block is gone.

    We also don't know how much Nadal will be in the mix this year so too early to tell but he was playing great tennis in 2011 and 2012 (until FO) when Novak was facing him on the big stages.

    The depth outside the big 4 is very lacking but as a trade-off you have a great top 4 (well great top 3 at the moment but I believe Nadal will return).

    Dude, he doesn't own Fed even now, since the start of Novak's domination in 2011 he's 3-2 in slams against Fed and had to save 2 MPs in one of those wins, that's certainly not ownage against Fed who isn't as good as he was in his best years.

    Also Stan was zoning but his best level isn't as potent as Fed's best level, jeez.
     
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  31. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    The h2h is misleading. Novak lost a few of those early in his career. I still think a prime Novak defeats a prime Fed on the average. Novak is mentally stonger and Rog would fold under the pressue which Djokovic is more immune to. It's not always about the game.
     
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  32. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I wasn't talking about their overall H2H.

    My point was that since the start of the best period of his career (2011+) Novak hasn't been able to dominate 29-31 year old Fed on the biggest stages (slams), he's gone 3-2 against him in slams with one win being a very narrow one.

    If he couldn't dominate a past his prime Fed (if you agree that 29-31 year old Fed is/was past his prime) by what logic would he dominate (or own the H2H) best version of Fed (say 2004-2007)? Now he might narrowly lead the H2H (though I personally don't believe it) but it would be close either way.
     
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  33. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Prime Federer beat Djokovic three straight times at the U.S. Open for the loss of just one set. After his level dropped, he still had match points in his two U.S. Open losses to Djokovic. I've no doubt that at the U.S. Open, prime Federer would beat prime Djokovic more often than not.

    Way past his prime Federer beat Djokovic at Wimbledon just last year. I've no doubt that prime Federer would beat prime Djokovic at Wimbledon more often than not, possibly never losing to him.

    A not-quite-as-far-past-his-prime Federer beat Djokovic at the French in 2011. This would probably be a really good match-up if they were both at their respective peaks at the same time. I think they're both of a similar level on clay and their games match up well. I imagine they'd split the meetings about 50-50.

    So the only slam where Djokovic would beat prime Federer "on the average" would be the Australian Open, where he is king.
     
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  34. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    I'll be surprised if Nadal wins another title off clay.
     
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  35. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Yep. Djokovic won most of his slams when Fedal were past it.

    If he had kept on winning them regularly since 2008 I would have been more impressed.


    We found out Murray's fitness is questionable. Nadal in 2009 and Djokovic in 2012 did what he couldn't do yesterday. Win the AO after a long SF. Murray's stamina and endurance is a big question mark. If he is going to be exhausted after playing 5 setters in the sf, then he will struggle to win like Djokovic does.... ADV Djokovic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #35
  36. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Problem is not the top 4. Top 4 are as good now as in any other generation. The problem is the depth of field. At this point the top 4 might as well start every slam from the Semis. Fed is getting older so he’s more at risk but you get the point. Back in the 90s you could actually get some rough first round matches and get booted out early. Top 10 could be all Slam winners. Top 20 were all dangerous. More aggressive play style and faster courts meant a lot more unpredictable matches. The slower the court, the more predictable the match is. It’s like MMA. Heavyweights will always be more unpredictable due to their power. Even a total mismatch could end in one lucky shot. The lighter weight you are the less likely one lucky shot will end a fight so the best fighter usually always wins. Some people like this, for me, I find it boring and uninteresting. I like excitement to my sport, not a math formula where the match is so predictable it’s not even worth playing.
     
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  37. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    It is kind of funny that you could make a similar argument about this era that you could make of the early Federer domination years.

    ******* is like today's Agassi. Andy Murray could be Lleyton Hewitt, if you really wanted to reach.

    If there's no Nadal around, there's no doubt this is every bit as "weak" on paper as any era Federer was winning slams in.
     
    #37
  38. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    TTW logic is - one has to win a major slugging out 5 setters or lose in early rounds of French open or be inconsistent at majors . That makes it a more competitive field.

    But if the top 2 or 3 raise their level above the field in ways not done before, it is a weak field. No credit to the top 3 for having raised their level.
     
    #38
  39. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic played with injured shoulder in that match.

    Djokovic's grandfather died in April last year. It's likely that Novak was still grieving during the 2012 Wimbledon.

    Djokovic received walkover into the semifinal (Fognini), which means he did not play 5 days after his match in the 4th round. It's sensible to say that Novak lost rhythm by the time he played against Federer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #39
  40. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    OMG I've never heard such a load of crap excuses in my life. Maybe we should just asterisk every loss Djoker has ever had!
     
    #40
  41. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Is this an opinion or a fact?

    An opinion or a fact?

    Dis an opinion or a fact?
     
    #41
  42. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Fixed. You need the bold tags to match 5555 my friend.
     
    #42
  43. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

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    Speed up the courts and then see what happens. At least, speed up Wimbledon and US Open. Make Wimbledon's grass such that the ball skids and bounces lower as it used to.
     
    #43
  44. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Can you provide counterargument? Yes or no?

    You refuse to answer my questions, so why should I answer your questions? First answer this http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7157504&postcount=387 and then I will answer your questions.
     
    #44
  45. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    I don't have to. He lost fair and square. This is just sour grapes on your part. Maybe we should go through every win he's ever had and analyze which opponents were injured or who was absent, like in Toronto last summer.
     
    #45
  46. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    did Federer win it in a strong era then?

    Even Fed admitted that current crop is stronger than the pigeons he used to face.

    So Novak is not winning in weak era. Nadal was absent for 2 slams for his own fault.

    Deal with it!
     
    #46
  47. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    They won't change the court conditions the way you prefer son. Organizers know what best works with general audience.

    Move on. Bunch of lame excuses by Fed fans for his loss. Please give another reason for his loss. Or ask ******* to adapt to conditions that is given to him.
     
    #47
  48. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    You have to, if you want to avoid defeat. I'm going to ask just one more time: can you refute my argument?
     
    #48
  49. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Yes of course. Grieving becomes unbearable especially in the latter stages of tournaments (sf and finals).


    And of course he beat Fed, (in fact crushed him) in the semifinals of Rome but the grieving became unbearable again in the finals against Nadal.
     
    #49
  50. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    mariecon, you lost the argument.

    Federer had hip injury http://www.10sballs.com/2012/06/13/roger-federer-says-hip-injury-is-history-now/
     
    #50

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