Is Djokovic's 2013 better than 2012?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 5555, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    He won more titles in 2013 than in 2012, has better winning percentage this year than last and in 2012 he had negative head to head record against Nadal (1-3).
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  2. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Yes. And Djokovic 2014 will be even better.
     
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  3. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I think was better in 2012 for most of the year compared to 2013. Only this fall season has Djokovic really impressed me. Djokovic didn't win a title between Monte Carlo and Bejing IIRC.

    Look at the fight Djokovic showed in the USO final in 2012 came from 2 sets to love down and levelled the match in horrendous conditions. In the final this year he gave up pretty much at the beginning of the 4th...

    In 2012 he had to contend with a great Federer, great Murray and Nadal for 6 months of the year. This year there's been less competition.
     
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  4. RNadal

    RNadal Semi-Pro

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    Talk for one dimension for threads.
     
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  5. chandu612

    chandu612 Guest

    Lol true.. How about one dimension for comments ?
    Is that a fact or opinion? Anyways it's off topic .
     
    #5
  6. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    In regards to the majors;

    Can I just point out that it was Nadal who took out "great" Federer at the AO.

    Federer wasn't playing "great" at RG.

    Novak's toughest competition in majors 2012:

    AO: Murray and Nadal
    RG: Tsonga and Nadal (Seppi was because he was playing bad)
    WIM: Federer
    USO: Murray

    The only time Fed was a problem for Novak at the majors was Wimbledon.

    This year Novak competition in majors:

    AO: Wawrinka
    RG: Nadal
    WIM: Del Potro and Murray
    USO: Wawrinka and Nadal

    His Masters record wasn't so bad either in 2013:

    IW: lost to Delpo
    Miami: lost to Haas (this was a bad loss and a very poor perfformance from Novak)

    MC: Won beating Nadal
    Madrid: lost to Dimitrov (bad loss but in 2012 lost to Tipsarevic which imo is even worse)
    Rome: lost to Berdych (not such a big deal)

    Montreal: lost to Nadal
    Cinci: lost to Isner who was playing really well all tounrey and also beat novak in 2012 at IW.

    Shanghai: won
    Paris: won

    Only 2 really bad losses where he was expected to win. Same sort of thing happened last year with the losses to Janko and Querrey.
     
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  7. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Why does Nadal beating Federer at the AO bare mentioning? This thread is about Djokovic...Nadal was playing well at the AO which actually feeds into my argument that the competition last year was better.

    Losing to Dimitrov is worse considering Djokovic didn't have the blue clay excuse to fall back on. Atleast IMO. Losses to Haas in Miami and Berdych in Rome were also pretty poor. His level of play just wasn't all that great. He clearly tanked Paris in 2012. At the WTF he went through better opponents IMO. Murray, Del Potro and Federer were all playing well.

    Nadal and Murray back to back at the AO in 2012 is harder than any draw the top guys have had in the last 2 years at the majors. At the FO Nadal was in much better form in 2012. Wimbledon wasn't great from Novak last year, although I think Federer 2012 would 9/10 beat Djokovic 2013 on grass anyway.

    The USO is tricky to judge because the final in 2012 was hampered by wind. This year up till Wawrinka, Djokovic's draw was an absolute joke though. Hell this year you had Ferrer making the FO final (with a cake walk draw) and Janowicz making the semi's of Wimbledon.

    Last year Federer was strong for most of the year and Murray solid in the majors if no where else. Nadal was a force for half the year as well. This year Murray has been extremely patchy and Federer has fallen off almost completely and Ferrer is #3.

    It might not be a huge gulf but the competition in 2012 was better.
     
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  8. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    2011 > 2013 > 2012
     
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  9. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    2013: 1 Slam + 2 other finals, WTF, 3 Masters, 2 ATP500s = 7.
    2012: 1 Slam + 2 other finals, WTF, 3 Masters, 1 ATP500 = 6.

    Year End Ranking:

    2013: #2
    2012: #1

    The 2 seasons are almost exactly identical. If he won 1 more title in 2013 than in 2012, that can be balanced out by the fact that he finished the 2012 season as world #1 whereas he finished 2013 as #2.

    The only thing that probably gives 2013 a slight edge is the unbeaten 24 match run he enjoyed in his last 4 tournaments of the year plus the DC final.
     
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  10. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Can't we leave the wind out of it? The conditions were exactly the same for both players. Whether or not this meant either Murray or Djokovic or both were or were not playing at their best, it was a level playing field (well, you know what I mean) for both of them and we can only assess their relative performance in the conditions both had to play in. The fact that the match went the full distance tells us that both players were able to play the best they could do and were able to be equally competitive, no matter what. It wasn't the first time nor probably will it be the last that the US Open final was played in windy conditions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  11. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    You completely missed my point. I'm talking about level of play of Djokovic in 2012 and 2013. I don't care who won what match. I was simply saying that the level of play was affected in the 2012 final so it's hard to know if Djokovic was better at the USO in 2012 or 2013.

    Stop jumping me on trying to defend Murray when my point has nothing to do with him.
     
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  12. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not trying to 'defend ' Murray. My argument would be exactly the same if Djokovic had won that match! Whatever the conditions, players have to adjust and adapt their games accordingly. It's part of the game, always has been and always will be.

    I happen to believe that player match-up is more important in assessing a player's performance than whatever the weather happens to be doing. Murray and Nadal are both close match-ups for Djokovic and they usually bring out the best in each other. Their matches nearly always tend to be especially close and competitive. But I give the edge to 2012 Djokovic because he was competitive throughout that match, wind or no wind, except, perhaps, towards the end when I think he visibly tired. In the 2013 final, he was only really competitive for a set and a half and then visibly folded in the 4th.
     
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  13. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    The wind clearly affected the quality of tennis both men were able to produce. Neither could go for the lines as much as they might have etc...That's the sort of thing I meant. Neither player could be particularly aggressive. That's not what happened in the 2013 final, both players were fairly aggressive throughout the match. That's why I think comparing the level of tennis in those two matches is difficult.
     
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  14. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Yes but still nowhere as good as 2011. That year was just crazy!
     
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  15. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Better than 2012 and better than 2014 as well.
     
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  16. NADALRECORD

    NADALRECORD Banned

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    2014 indoors or outdoors?
     
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  17. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    Maybe if he had not a a so long match with Del Potro in semifinals, he would have won Wimbledon. So it would be 2 Grand Slam Tournaments to him and 2 for Nadal.
     
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  18. NADALRECORD

    NADALRECORD Banned

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    Murray beat Djokovic at the US Open 2012. So logic suggests Murray was bound to beat Djokovic at Wimbledon 2013. Even if Djokovic had beaten Del Potro in 3 or 4 sets, I think Murray would have won the final.
     
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  19. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Yes but...Djokovic beat Murray at the AO 13.
     
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  20. NADALRECORD

    NADALRECORD Banned

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    Australian Open appears to be tailor made for Djokovic's game. He won it back in 2008 when he hadn't won any others. Wimbledon looks more suited to Murray. US Open/Roland Garros for Nadal.
     
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  21. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Because you listed Fed as his main competition when in reality he didn't have to beat him at AO, Nadal did. He beat an average Fed at RG, lost to Fed at WIM and that's really it.

    Grigor played quite well this clay season, he pushed Nadal on clay as well don't forget so it's not like it was THAT terrible a loss.

    His level of play? Can you back that up with some sort of proof? If he had won that RG SF nobody would be saying his level of play was poorer this year, but because he lost to nadal in 2 majors, all of a sudden, Novak was playing bad compared to last year. Rubbish, Novak was worse last year as I've clearly pointed out to you.

    Really? 6-0 in the first set is tanking? LOL.

    Fed was playing very well at this year's WTF as well...

    So was Del Potro...

    And Rafa certainly was playing better than Murray last year...

    Where do you get this stuff from WTF comp was better LOL, even Gasquet put up quite a fight against him.

    Nadal played better in that 5th set than probably any other year at RG. You can't blame him for losing that set to him surely.

    Yes, Murray and Rafa at AO was really tough no doubt.

    But 2013 Novak played better at WIM and USO and had tougher opponents.

    No, you don't say the wind hampered things, that's part of the event bad luck. That's just like bringing up the roof at Wimbledon helping Fed to win the title.

    Have you even seen Novak USO draw last year? He had it pretty easy until the final as well. There was certainly no one playing as well as Wawrinka at this year's USO.

    Ferrer is #3 mainly because of those Mickey Mouse tourney's he plays every year.

    Murray wasn't extremely patchy either. He won Brisbane, played well at AO, decent at IW (losing to an on fire Del Potro), won Miami, had a bad clay season (is that anything new really?) then had a terrific grass season before having back issues (or do they only exist for Federer, your idol?) causing him to have surgery and be out for the rest of the year. Extremely patchy LOL. If Murray was extremely patchy this year, then so was Nadal last year.

    Federer dropping off is the only significant weakness in 2013 compared to 2012. But then again, with the return of Nadal playing really well, as well as Del Potro finding better form and Wawrinka as well, it gets cancelled out.

    Why do you need to go on an agenda to downgrade the 2013 competition? Is that because Nadal was the dominant player? 2013 comp > anything from 04-07 and > 09 & 10 as well. Only 08 & 11 > 13 imo.
     
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  22. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    Agree with most of what you said.

    But in 2012 i had a sense of better competition throughout the year. Nadal and Djokovic battling it out once again the first half of the year. Then Murray and Federer battling it out in the grass season and in the end Murray and Djokovic playing in big matches.

    Nadal was the dominant player this year and credit to him. But besides Djokovic the other top players were not playing at their highest level.
     
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  23. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Better than 2014? Is this a typing mistake?
     
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  24. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    It is a prediction. :)
     
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  25. arrowbar

    arrowbar Banned

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    He did have a better year than 2012. The 2nd best year of his career. He also ended it where he would have ended 2012 without Nadal's season ending injury- at #2. The only difference is this time the Worlds best player was able to finish the year.
     
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  26. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Joker is less distracted in 2013 and had started to train and focus a tad better, imo.
     
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  27. ctoth666

    ctoth666 Professional

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    I would love to see prime Federer play Nole indoors, best of five. Like 2006 WTF Federer. That would be a treat.
     
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  28. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    It's off topic.
     
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