is dominance on 1 surface the sign of the GOAT?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Tammo, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    Nadal has dominated clay ever since 05' 8 MC's 6 Rome and 7 FO's. He has the same number of FO's that Fed has Wimbledons and did it 5 years behind. Fed cannot and never will dominate grass liek Nadal does clay, I this the sign of the true untarnished GOAT?
     
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  2. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Definitely not. A GOAT should dominate every surface and destroy all his rivals anytime, anywhere. Nadal didn't do that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
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  3. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    No.

    10chars
     
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  4. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    A surface GOAT, yes. But seeing that he's done well on the other surfaces as well, he's definitely a GOAT contender.
     
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  5. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Neither did Fed though
     
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  6. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    That's what I was trying to say :D
     
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  7. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Federer bageled Nadal on Clay and Djokovic on Hards :)
     
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  8. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    Nadal bageled Fed in GS final!
     
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  9. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Fed bageled Nadal too. 2006 Wimbledon.
     
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  10. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    In Nadal's 4th or 5th grass court tournament EVER though.. Just to put some things into perspective here
     
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    And neither did Fed.
     
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  12. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Fed is closer than Nadal, though. And closer than Borg, Sampras. And Laver, for that matter.

    None of them have the records, or tied for the records, for wins at multiple majors. Borg was the leader at FO, and had 5 straight Wimbledon. Sampras was leading at Wimbledon with 7 total, and tied for USO wins (5). Laver, none of the above (his claim is mainly his ability to win two CYGS). Federer has tied for the most titles at AO, USO, Wimbledon.. AND made 5 finals at the FO, losing 4 to Rafa and winning the one against not-rafa.

    So, no, Federer doesn't dominate everywhere. but he's the closest.
     
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  13. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Boo hoo, Fed had mono. We can both play this game if you want.
     
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  14. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    So? How many tournaments does he need to have? Thats no excuse.
     
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  15. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    This is not true. Laver won multiple times on all surfaces that were available then, and he doesnt have a losing record to any of his main rivals, two major difference from Federer. Laver comes MUCH closer to fitting that title than Federer ever has or ever will. It is funny how you pass off winning 2 Grand Slams as if it is nothing, when Federer and Nadal arent good enough to even do it once, heck neither were good enough to even win 2 Career Slams, but Laver simply does 2 Calendar Slams, LOL! As for not having the most slams anywhere, how many slams would Federer or Nadal have if they were barred from Slam tennis from 24 to 29, especialy Federer. The fact he has multiple and double digit slams everywhere despite that is nothing short of remarkable, Federer and even Nadal sure as hell wouldnt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2012
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  16. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    So being a greenhorn rookie with almost NO grass experience is no excuse vs a defending 3-4 time champ whatever it was?
     
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  17. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    We can play it.. And stop talking as if Fed had some severe form of mono.. If he had it, it was very MILD. A severe form of mono you can't even get out of bed, much less make finals of Grand Slam tournaments.


    What about all the other years Nadal beat Fed at the French? Are we gonna use the mono excuse there too?
     
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  18. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Nadal would have to win atleast 1 more Wimbledon and atleast 1 more hard court slam to be a GOAT candidate, along with tieing or breaking Federer's slam record. For those who consider Rod Laver the GOAT he would need a Calendar Slam however, atleast one, if not two.
     
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  19. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    To be clear, i think if you lose set 6:0 it's not big deal, i remember Djokovic lost set vs Gasquet 6:0, but he won that final! Federer bageled Djokovic this year, but Djokovic have a set point in that match! Federer btw won 4 games in GS final.
     
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  20. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Thats do-able though.. Nadal should have enough in the tank to reasonably win another Wimbledon, 2-3 More French Open titles, and an AO at the very least.
     
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  21. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Not really, especially when you consider a certain greenhorn rookie beat a 7 time Wimbledon champion.
     
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  22. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Fed was at his peak in 2006 though.. Pete was a shell of his former grass self in 2001

    So A greenhorn rookie in his 4th-5th grass tournament ever vs. a PEAK Federer is the same a young Federer-vs. OLD Sampras?
     
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  23. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    It's the sign of the clay Goat, Fed is the GOAT, silly rabbit, Trix are for kids.
     
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  24. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Ah, I never passed it off. I was just saying, Laver is not as close as either Fed or Nadal to holding the most titles at any of the majors. That was the point I was making.
     
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  25. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    How did we know Sampras was a shell of his former grass self? What's your proof? He was a 4 time defending champion at that point. He always performed badly at RG, and turned it on at Wimbledon even in his prime.

    In context, we're talking about a 6-0 set. At the end of the day it's one set, it means very little, so making excuses as to why Nadal got bageled is a bit strange.
     
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  26. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Riiight. Nadal hasn't won a non-clay slam for 3 years.. but yes, he can definitely win AT LEAST 1 more AO, another Wimbledon, 3 FO's.. and he would still be at 16

    You're horribly biased.
     
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  27. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Proof? Umm He needed to go 5 sets to beat a no-namer in Barry Cowens in one of the earlier rounds.. Then the year after he loses to Bastl. And.. All you had to do was see his play at wimbledon in 2001 and 2002 and compare it to his other years at wimbledon in the 90s..

    How much proof do you need?
     
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  28. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    GOAT has 200 tournaments.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
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  29. Netspirit

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    Laver had 2 good years in the period when big players mostly ignored the AO and 3 out of 4 majors were played on grass. He was the best of his decade, but I do not think those 2 good years add much to career comparisons.
     
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  30. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    And yet he doesn't have the most pro-major-equivalents ever.
     
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  31. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    As I said, in context we're talking about one measly 6-0 set. You made a pretty lame excuse about how it was Nadal's 4th or 5th grass tournament. A bagel set is a bagel set. There are no legitimate excuses as to why they happen when you're as good as Nadal was, even in 2006. Just as there are no excuses for Federer to be bageled at RG.
     
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  32. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Nadal was not that great outside of clay in 2006.. He was still learning the ropes, maturing, and had yet to be what he would later become.

    There is an excuse for Fed to get bageled a set in the French.. He was playing Nadal. The hands down best to ever play on the dirt at his clay peak in 2008.
     
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  33. Prisoner of Birth

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    You don't get to Grand Slam finals without being good on the surface.

    Either way, a 2-time Grand Slam champion (he had won 2 Slams by then) being not-good on another surface is no excuse.
     
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  34. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Ok, great so you've found excuses for both of them. Not really that big of a deal. My work is done.
     
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  35. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    If the matches are competitive a bagel set in a best of 5 doesnt factor much into an argument about the whole of the player, be that Federer or Nadal. Even the bagel set which led to a whooping of a match (2008 FO final) which the 2006 Wimbledon final was not in the end, doesnt factor much into how I perceive Federer on clay, we all knew he was much inferior to Nadal on the whole on clay even had that match been reasonably competitive like their other 5 finals there, and my ranking of Federer on clay would still be the 8-13 range all time like it is now. Likewise why would it factor into how Nadal is perceived on grass, he is the 2nd best grass courter of his era by far, but probably not top 10 all time on the surface yet, had the first set of that match been 7-5 that perception would be exactly the same. Seriously arent we all reaching a bit too much here.
     
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  36. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Spread of Surfaces

    Nadal needs to dominate (say win at least 4 titles) in a few more of the top 5 titles (Slams + WTF). At the moment he has only dominated at the French Open. In contrast Federer has dominated in 4 out of 5 of the top 5 titles.

    Not saying that Nadal can't do it....but he needs to show greater dominance across the top 5 titles if he is to be considered for the very summit of tennis history.
     
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  37. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    In regards to the bolded part, yes we are. That was my point of my last 2 or 3 posts. You're telling the wrong person this.
     
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  38. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    So technically Nadal is 1/3rd GOAT and Fed is 2/3 GOAT as clay constitutes 1/3 of playing surface over the year.(clay+hard+grass=3) :grin:
     
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  39. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    LOL what is this crap?!

    Federer getting a bagel from Nadal is perfectly expected, since Nadal was at his peak on his best surface.. but Nadal getting a bagel from Federer is given an excuse because.. well, it's Federer at his peak on his best surface?!

    So what do you say about the Bagel Rafa ate last year at WTF? When Fed is NOT peak on his best surface? What's the logic there, 90's ****?

    LOL
     
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  40. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Other than 'much weaker than Nadal on clay', I agree (Federer has beaten Rafa as much as Djokovic on clay, and been within points of beating him multiple other matches as well, i think he deserves some credit there).

    but 90's Clay is the one making excuses for Nadal, saying that the score wasn't fair to him since he was a baby on grass or whatever (didn't he win Wimbledon juniors?)
     
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  41. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    I shouldn't have but I LOLed at that.
     
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  42. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah I mean, Federer bageled Nadal on clay in 2007 and hardcourt in 2011. Bagels happen. He did it to Djokovic in cinci this year. It's not like they really prove much anyway, other than one player was really on form and the other was out of sorts. This can happen regardless of experience. Unless Nadal was a clay greenhorn in 2007 and a HC greenhorn in 2011 and Nole was this year.

    How did this subject even come about anyway? :lol:
     
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  43. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    No, I don't believe Rafa ever did.
     
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  44. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Guilty as charged.
     
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  45. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    It started out kind of funny, and then 90's clay turned it stupid. PoB said that Federer bageled Nadal on clay and Djokovic on HC, then Gonzo style trumped it by saying Nadal bageled Fed at RG, then I said that Fed bageled Nadal at Wimbledon. And then 90's clay starts making excuses as to why Nadal got bageled saying he was a "greenhorn" rookie at the time, while offering no such "excuses" for Federer. I said Nadal didn't really have an excuse considering a certain "greenhorn" rookie defeated a 7 time Wimbledon champion, and that's how we got onto Sampras. So that's the rundown.
     
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  46. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    i should make a bad joke about you being a prisoner of birth as a result of being guilty :lol:
     
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  47. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    You just did ;-)
     
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  48. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    That's pretty funny. Care to speak about that Federer-Sampras match again? Cause the positions were reversed and I'm pretty sure your take on this will be *quite* different. :)
     
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  49. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    No, OP.

    Nadal is GOAT on clay.

    Being GOAT on one surface does not translate to GOAT
     
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  50. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    POB got banned... but not Nsk? what..?
     
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