Is Federer now the GOAT?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by bank5, Jun 7, 2009.

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Is Federer now the GOAT?

  1. Yes

    110 vote(s)
    80.9%
  2. No

    26 vote(s)
    19.1%
  1. bank5

    bank5 Rookie

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    One vote for yes.
     
    #1
  2. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    He certainly has a legitimate case. Whos to say though. He avoided some great players who could have taken him out.

    He needs to take out Nadal at a slam or two, to solidify himself I think
     
    #2
  3. Aykhan Mammadov

    Aykhan Mammadov Hall of Fame

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    If GOAT means not only "one of greatest" but really means " the greatest between all great players" then the answer is BOLD YES. He is the greatest player in the history of the humankind after today.
     
    #3
  4. Cenc

    Cenc Hall of Fame

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    simply: no
    wins over soderling arent something that makes greatest players of all times
    he still has losing record with 2 or 3 main rivals and just 4 years as world number 1
     
    #4
  5. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Laver won 2 calander slams its taken Federer years to win the career slam how is Fed above Laver?
     
    #5
  6. grimmbomb21

    grimmbomb21 Professional

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    No. But he should send thank you cards to the players that upset the rest of the big four. Soderling deserves a nice watch or even a sports car.
     
    #6
  7. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Federer playing like he did today would have destroyed either Djokovic or Murray (on clay). Djokovic has some success vs Roger only because he is such a good player, but he isnt a tough matchup for Roger like Nadal and Murray are. If Federer plays reasonably well he will pretty much always beat Djokovic, and today he played extremely well. Murray on clay isnt that good yet, he would have been dust facing Federer's barrage today on this surface. Only Nadal would have even had a shot vs Federer today, and with his health/physical situation right now even that is probably doubtful unless Federer had a bit of a mental breakdown from facing Nadal which is quite possible.
     
    #7
  8. Rexking

    Rexking Professional

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    um..calender slams with 3 of the 4 slams played on grass is not a legitimate comparison with todays grand slams which are played on 4 different surfaces. It is a much greater achievement today.
     
    #8
  9. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    yes!I didn't even get the chance to respond!:cry: :cry: so unfair!
     
    #9
  10. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    That's a new word in my book. LOL
     
    #10
  11. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Fed aint GOAT. It took lightning to strike twice with Djoker and Nadal getting taken out and a clown draw of clown draws for Roger to even win an RG title
     
    #11
  12. paterson

    paterson New User

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    Yes, Federer is the GOAT. He is the most complete champion in the modern era. He plays on a championship level on the 2 hardcourt major surfaces, Wimbledon and now clay. The H2H with Nadal is distorted because of the number of clay matches. Clay is Federer's worst surface. He gets my vote.
     
    #12
  13. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

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    The umpteenth GOAT thread.Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh
     
    #13
  14. Cenc

    Cenc Hall of Fame

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    :D good one man
     
    #14
  15. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    philes = friends.You can make countless such words with this in the end.



    come onn..don't make me quote you again.We know how you really feel!I even put this in my sig!:)
     
    #15
  16. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    who are you and what happened to real grafselsfan?:shock:
     
    #16
  17. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    #17
  18. Seany

    Seany Banned

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    I hate the phrase "GOAT"...it's over used.

    Federer is the BPTEL, the best player that ever lived.

    Screw goat.
     
    #18
  19. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Fed playing the way he did through the whole slam having trouble against Mathieu, Haas and Del Potro would not have been enough to take out both Nadal and Djoker b2b, End of story. We all know its true
     
    #19
  20. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Why don't we wait until he retires? By then all these silly discussions may be moot.

    - KK
     
    #20
  21. Docalex007

    Docalex007 Hall of Fame

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    1) Laver had basically no competition back then (not many pros back then either)

    2) Weren't most of them on one surface? Yeah. :)

    Case closed.
     
    #21
  22. Seany

    Seany Banned

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    Not feds fault that rafa and Novak suck so much that they can't even make it to the 2nd week...what is Roger supposed to do?
     
    #22
  23. corners

    corners Legend

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    #23
  24. lambielspins

    lambielspins Banned

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    Everybody has. Unless you invent a time machine and put Laver, Rosewall, Gonzales, Tilden, Budge, Kramer, Federer, Borg, Sampras, Perry, Lendl, Connors, McEnroe, Nadal all in it together this will remain true. I see you are a Sampras fan by your name but Sampras's biggest competition was Agassi who while a great player probably isnt even a top 15 player alltime. Nadal will almost certainly outrank Agassi by the end of his career and he is Federer's biggest rival. Laver and Borg had the toughest overall competition of anyone, and even they avoided many great player who could take them out since it is impossible to not do so unless you invented the time machine.
     
    #24
  25. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    You got your facts wrong and now the case is closed?

    Hilarious stuff. This board is a hoot, just as anticipated.
     
    #25
  26. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Laver had no competiton? What the hell do u call Fed's clown RG draw? Competition? When he only had to deal with 1 damn top 10 player the whole time? THATS NO COMPETITION my friend
     
    #26
  27. bank5

    bank5 Rookie

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    How about just "greatest ever"? I don't think many people know what BPTEL means.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
    #27
  28. DoubleDeuce

    DoubleDeuce Hall of Fame

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    Laver was a good badminton player.

    Get over it.
     
    #28
  29. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Maybe Nadal will overtake Andre. Who knows though. Thats if Nadal can even get his footing back now because of his injuries. Nadal was insignificant on hardcourts for years during Fed's domination. So thats one less major player Fed had to deal with during that time. And Nadal may not even come back in top form. He cant even make it through a whole season healthy and lost alot of points getting taken out early at the french.
     
    #29
  30. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Agreed..... I've never seen an easier draw
     
    #30
  31. DoubleDeuce

    DoubleDeuce Hall of Fame

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    Laver was too short to compete in today's game. He could do as good as Davydenko, and that's about it.
     
    #31
  32. bank5

    bank5 Rookie

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    #32
  33. navratilovafan

    navratilovafan Banned

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    I now realize more than ever you are such a hypocritical joke. You often pump up your 2nd favorite player Agassi by speaking in the reverential over his career slam. His French Open title was an even bigger joke than Federer's if one examines the circumstances and the overall event yet that is something you never acknowledged. If he had played Kuerten his chances would have been even less than Federer's vs Nadal. He was having mighty trouble with Kuerten on hard courts around then, being spanked by Kuerten on hard courts in easy straight sets twice in big events in 2000. On clay he wouldnt have had a hope in hell if they played. Rios, the 2nd best clay courter at the time, who went out the round before he played Agassi would have been far more likely to take Agassi out than Djokovic take Federer out. Rios had an easy time with Agassi on hard courts those times they played within the previous 15 months of that match, so imagine on clay. Djokovic has only 1 career win over Federer on clay in a match Federer played like garbage and still choked away a big lead, and is overall nowhere near as accomplished as Federer or as strong a big match player as Federer. If beating Soderling in the final is a joke than what about beating a way past his prime 100th ranked Medvedev. Oh yeah Federer did in commanding fashion in the final atleast, not an ugly 5 setter requiring the opponent to choke it away after killing you in the first half the way Agassi did in his final. If you point out Medvedev even in the obvious twilight of his career was having a great tournament and beat Kuerten and Sampras by the time Sampras had become sucky on clay late in his career, then I would point out Soderling was having a great tournament and beat Rafa, Davydenko, and Gonzalez which overall is even better. If struggling vs Haas and Mathieu is bad then what is struggling with Clement, Squillari, and Hrbaty.

    Agassi's French Open title was 3x as lucky and under crazy circumstances as Federer so if you are going to gush over Agassi's career slam then you sure as heck had better credit Federer's. I will be happy to bring up your comments here anytime I notice you bringing up Agassi's career slam in the Former Pro Player section from now on and expose your hypocriticy for all to see.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
    #33
  34. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    All I know is...

    Martin
    Acususo
    Monfils
    Haas
    Del Potro
    Soderling.

    One top 10 player in the whole draw Fed had to deal with. There it is.. Read em and wheap.

    And Speaking of Kuerten, even Guga with a plastic hip, old and decrepid straight set whooped Roger at the French
     
    #34
  35. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Been there, done that.

    It is really too bad for Pete that you don't have 1% of the class he does. I am sure if he knew what you were doing he'd ask you to stop.
     
    #35
  36. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Yeah, this makes perfect sense.
     
    #36
  37. navratilovafan

    navratilovafan Banned

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    and even if he had a plastic hip he probably would have still hammered Agassi at the 99 French if they had played. Agassi owes Medvedev an even bigger thank you gift than Federer owes Soderling. Actually he owes him two, one for taking care of Kuerten who Agassi had 0 shot against, the other for gifting him the final on a silver platter with many ribbons on it after making a fool of Agassi for over 2 sets before one of the ugliest chokes and collapses in recent major final history. Combine the two together and he should purchase Medvedev a mansion. Here is Agassi's draw to win the French:

    First round- 38th ranked Franco Squillari. Lost first set 6-3, and barely won 2nd and 3rd sets 7-5 each.

    Second round- 81th ranked Arnaud Clement. Was 2 points from a 4 set defeat before Clement cramped right at that moment exactly pretty much.

    Third round- 158th ranked Chris Woodruff (who had still beaten Agassi at the French 3 years earlier)

    Fourth round- 4th ranked Moya who he trailed a set and two breaks in the 2nd before the choke.

    Quarters- 140th ranked something Filippini

    Semis- 30th ranked Dominik Hrbaty who he was in some trouble against before the rain delay. A tough 4 set win.

    Final- 100th ranked way past his prime Andrei Medvedev. Still hammered Agassi 6-1, 6-2 in the first two sets before a huge collapse.

    Just one top 10 player, same as Federer, an even bigger joke draw all around and even more trouble and help getting through it. Again if you are going to ever continue praising the Agassi career slam you have no choice but to praise the Federer career slam. If you insist on mocking Federer's French Open title, Agassi's is even more easy to mock and ridicule so have it your way. The only reason I am bringing this up is I have seen you many times in the Former Pro Section gushing over Agassi's Career Slam. Fine, if you want to use that to promote him while being consistent with others who achieved it then go ahead, but dont think for even a second you are going to be able to continue to do that and now diminish Federer's Career Slam when Agassi's was won under even more fortunate circumstances. If Federer's Career Slam is somehow worthless and a fluke, Agassi's was even moreso given the way the 99 French panned out. Silly that you thought you would get away with that kind of two faced logic with nobody calling you out on it. To be expected as you use that kind of two faced argument all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
    #37
  38. 8PAQ

    8PAQ Banned

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    You mean like 1997 AO win for Sampras?
     
    #38
  39. navratilovafan

    navratilovafan Banned

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    Well lets take a look at that shall we:

    First round- 169th ranked Pescariu guy.
    Second round- 48th ranked clay court specialist Voinea, went 4 sets
    Third round- 28th ranked doubles specailist Mark Woodroffe
    Round of 16- 76th ranked Dominik Hrbaty, a future top 20 player. Was down 4-2 and break points for a double break deficit in the 5th set before reallying.
    Quarters- 13th ranked clay court specialist Albert Costa, a tough 5 setter.
    Semis- 5th ranked clay court specailist Thomas Muster, in his only ever hard court slam semi.
    Finals- 25th ranked Carlos Moya in his first slam final

    Yet again only 1 top 10 player, lots of trouble with alot of these "lower ranked" type guys, in these cases not even really hard court players. I suppose somehow GameSampras will try to spin this into something extraordinary while continue to argue Federer's French Open triumph here is a something much less.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
    #39
  40. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    Sampras's Wimbledon 2000 run:

    1R : Vanek (3-0 in sets)
    2R : Kucera ( 3-1 in sets)
    3R : Gimelstob (3-1 in sets)
    4R : Björkman (3-0 in sets) (best results in doubles)
    QF : Jan Michael Gambill (3-1 in sets)
    SF : Vladimir Voltchkov (3-0 in sets) (Qualifer in the semi's WTF)
    F: Rafter (seed #12) (3-1 in sets)

    No top 10 players to deal with and none competitive enough to push Sampras to 5 sets.

    Federer by comparison played at least two 5 setters and a number #5 seed.

    There it is.. Read em and wheap

    Indeed. Get over it.
     
    #40
  41. navratilovafan

    navratilovafan Banned

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    GameSampras leaves his arguments so open to being exposed for giant holes that it isnt even funny.
     
    #41
  42. cueboyzn

    cueboyzn Professional

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    I Agree.

    The only reason Murray and Djokevich have good recent records against Federer is because they are playing him in tournaments he literally doesn't give a toss about anymore, and are all the best of 3 sets.

    The last time Federer played Djokovic in a Grand Slam was at the US Open where he handed him a handy defeat in the semi-final.

    The last (and only) time Federer played Murray in a Grand Slam he turned him into dust in the US Open final in New York.

    In both those matches Roger played like the old Roger we all know.

    Easier to beat the Master in tournaments that mean little to him now but still mean a lot to them, they are still young/hungry. Federer is hungry for only one thing: Grand Slams. Either of them (Murray, Djoker) in the final today would have gotten squashed in 3 or 4 sets.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
    #42
  43. Speranza

    Speranza Hall of Fame

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    Fed aint GOAT. It took lightning to strike twice with Djoker and Nadal getting taken out and a clown draw of clown draws for Roger to even win an RG title

    Fed playing the way he did through the whole slam having trouble against Mathieu, Haas and Del Potro would not have been enough to take out both Nadal and Djoker b2b, End of story. We all know its true



    Usually I just pass such comments off as immature or having lack of depth, but can’t do on this these two.

    Let me ask you this, what is the point of ANY slam having the amount of players other than the top current 4 for you? Why not just have a round robin style for the top 4 and whoever does the best, wins? Like an even smaller end of seasons masters. Wouldn’t this please you more? TOUGH – you can only play the guy in front of you. Djokovic wasn’t good enough this time to reach the semis to meet Roger. That is HIS fault, because of HIS playing. (The same way that it was Roger’s fault that he couldn’t beat Nadal the last 3 years). Furthermore, even without playing at his best he got through the matches you mentioned. Where as Djoker and Murray didn’t. Neither did his very own nemesis this time.

    Yours (and many others too) sense of reasoning just doesn’t make sense – Fed even playing the way he did WOULD have taken out Novak and Andy playing the way THEY were, because although his level wasn’t his best, it was better than both Gonsalez and Kohls. in those matches.

    By you reasoning, the ONLY way for any player to reach a GOAT status (and by definition GOAT has faults as changes in the game/equipment/fitness etc. over timelines change) is for ALL said players to be playing at their peak of ability and fitness, both mentally and physically. All guys at 100%. But guess what? That will never happen, what they do is try and play at such a level, in tournaments known as Grandslams and Masters events (at least for the ATP).

    Sorry, I’m a Fed fan, but I know that his level on clay is not as consistent as Nadal. Nadal wasn’t good enough because of whatever reason (please fill in yourselves what you believe here) to get there this time, neither were the other two of the four. This year, Fed was. Please just accept it, and stop making poor excuses that he isn’t deserving a possible greatest of all time accolade. His records alone prove that he is.

    Second thoughts, I might just pass your comments of as indeed being immature with lack of depth.
     
    #43
  44. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    The debate should be over. No big deal though cos' Federer is the French Open Champion of 2009. I thought I'd never have the chance to write that.
     
    #44
  45. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

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    Sampras said. "I'm a huge Laver fan, and he had a few years in there where he didn't have an opportunity to win majors. But you can't compare the eras. And in this era, the competition is much more fierce than Rod's."

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jRgKD28VMw8FWfbPwI1xgQ13Iq7AD98LVS1O0
     
    #45
  46. cueboyzn

    cueboyzn Professional

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    :) Well now you do :)
     
    #46
  47. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    #47
  48. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Lets go through Roger's draw

    Martin- A nobody
    Acasuso- Never done anything at the slams in his career and Fed still relied on his choking 4 sets points in the 1st set and a 5-1 lead in the 3rd set
    Mathieu- Again never done anything and Fed had to go back from a set to beat him.
    Haas- Old and past his prime whats he done in the last 2 years? and Roger still relied on Haas throwing away a 2 set lead and Haas had 2 break points at 4-3 in the 3rd.
    Monflis- Clearly not fully fit
    Del Potro- Playing in his 1st slam semi and was leading Roger 2 sets to 1.
    Sonderling- Playing in his 1st slam final and never been beyond the 3rd round in a slam before.

    I would say thats a extremly soft draw and Federer should count his blessings.
     
    #48
  49. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    Sampras's Wimbledon 2000 run:

    1R : Vanek (3-0 in sets)
    2R : Kucera ( 3-1 in sets)
    3R : Gimelstob (3-1 in sets)
    4R : Björkman (3-0 in sets) (best results in doubles)
    QF : Jan Michael Gambill (3-1 in sets)
    SF : Vladimir Voltchkov (3-0 in sets) (Qualifer in the semi's WTF)
    F: Rafter (seed #12) (3-1 in sets)

    No top 10 players to deal with and none competitive enough to push Sampras to 5 sets.

    Federer by comparison played at least two 5 setters and a number #5 seed.
     
    #49
  50. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

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    LMAO! You just owned Cesc Fabregas! :lol:
     
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