Is it cruel to boil lobsters alive?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Steady Eddy, Mar 15, 2011.

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Is it cruel to boil lobsters alive?

Poll closed Mar 20, 2011.
  1. Yes, so don't do that and don't eat lobster.

    19 vote(s)
    29.2%
  2. Yes, but they taste better that way, so it's worth it.

    7 vote(s)
    10.8%
  3. No, it's just a lobster.

    24 vote(s)
    36.9%
  4. I don't know, but it doesn't bother me.

    15 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. forthegame

    forthegame Hall of Fame

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    This is why I love TT. PMSL!!!!
     
  2. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    Fedace:
    Actually, I would get hungrier, I would want to eat the meat right off of the meat hook but knowing that it may carry parasites and other micro bacterial bad things I would cook it.

    However, Lobsters:

    a) Do not scream when boiled
    b) Do not feel pain (study neurology or something related to the brain, please)
    c) Age forever (so somebody's gotta kill'em)
    d) Look like they don't care when boiled (they don't even move frantically)
    e) Do not believe in any God(s) or Goddess(es) and therefore it is moral and okay to go Spanish Inquisition on these guys.

    Problem solved, time to enjoy!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUBloU7G3BU#t=1m08s

    [​IMG]

    I mean come on, doesn't this lobster look angry?
     
  3. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    You have to elaborate on this one...
     
  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He had the medical oath of Hippocrates at the back of his mind when he typed it up.
     
  5. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No, it was not trolling. It was to stimulate you to think.
     
  6. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I told you before I don't.
     
  7. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

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    Actually, no, I am not hippocrates. Although I do value that oath, I am not the Greek physician.
     
  8. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

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    Actually the soul, Nephesh in Hebrew, is an ancient concept that long pre-dates Western thought. However, it simply means the 'person', the entity in and of itself. Animals are Nephesh (soulish), humans are nephesh (soulish). Simply implies life.
    What many people think of when they think of 'soul' is the concept of Spirit, but that is another concept outside the realm of this discussion.
     
  9. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Hi, and i am not Socrates.
     
  10. forthegame

    forthegame Hall of Fame

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    Ferdachiiiiii!
    The one and only.
     
  11. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    I think the Golden Rule (there are variations of it in many cultures) is interesting. One might think about the Golden Rule, then consider the question, who are the "others"? If the GR is to "do onto others as you have them do onto to you" in essence, then much depends on how each of us interprets the word "others".



     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    This simple observation, if true, seems to negate all the "neuro anatomical" claims being put forward.
     
  13. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    No....animals and plants have tropic mechanisms that have nothing to do with pain. Plants grow towards the sun, nobody thinks they feel pain in the dark. Many fish seek out certain temperatures of water, no evidence that the wrong temperature causes pain.
     
  14. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    why is there a post like this on tt
     
  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Heliotropism and geotropism suddenly sprang to my mind from decades ago when we memorized them for biology.
     
  16. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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  17. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    Do any of the people here who are so preoccupied with lobster discomfort drive cars? You are smashing bugs and occasionally running over more substantial creatures. Couldn't you walk instead (carefully, of course, so as not to step on anyone)?
     
  18. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    "Post"?, or do you mean "thread"? It says 'Odds and Ends' Discuss topics that don't fit anywhere else.

    This doesn't fit in anywhere else, except for 'Health and Fitness' maybe?
     
  19. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Not good for lobster's health and fitness hehehe
     
  20. Caloi

    Caloi Semi-Pro

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    I think the "fisherman" and packagers should quit rubber banding their claws. I bet lobster sales would go down quite a bit knowing your neighbor is missing a couple digits from their last lobster boil.
     
  21. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    stanton_warrior:
    The Spanish Inquisition was a group of Catholic warriors who fought against those who did not believe in God. They went into Muslim territory amongst other vast parts of Europe. They're known for their destruction and cultural (not religious) spread into those lands.

    suresh:
    [​IMG]

    Cindysphinx:
    Cindysphinx, undoing an entire branch of science with one test, if you can exclude the fact that lobsters walk (on the bottom of the sea floor, and prefer that place where there are lots of rocks to hide in), and that they live in water temperatures ranging from freezing cold to the perfect bath tub waters we bathe in.

    El_Diablo:
    [sarcasm]
    I drive an algae fueled bio-car, for your information the insects are putting themselves in my way and I'm saving the planet! One insect for many!

    I also happen to support dams which are very green in the fact that they use water powered turbines to rotate generators, ignoring the fact that the dam drains water from other places destroying ecosystems.
    [/sarcasm]

    Sidenote: Please Keep Religion Out, this Thread is about a Tasty crustacean which nets the U.S. 1 billion annually.
     
  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I have informed the lobster mods about this thread and they plan to take revenge on all of you by capturing you while you are out swimming and then boiling you in volcanic hot water from the sea bed.
     
  23. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    sureshs:
    Good try, but I've replaced the pain receptors of my brain with the pleasure ones.

    Have I mentioned that I've been punching myself in the genitalia as we speak? Feels great.
     
  24. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    HOw do you know Lobsters don't feel pain and or Never AGE ?? This is first i heard of this ever...........:confused::confused:
     
  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Agreed. Never heard of immortal lobsters.
     
  26. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    Fedace:
    Never age is relative. I'm just saying that because we've never found a lobster that's died from old age. They live long healthy (referring back to a joke from earlier) lives.

    According to neurological studies they lack the receptors which receive pain and therefore, do not feel them. Unless you want to disprove an entire branch of science, feel free.

    sureshs:
    Disagreed. Never heard of immoral people.

    (Hopefully obvious sarcasm is obvious)
     
  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You mean if you study a lobster in a lab for years together, it will never die? There are lobsters in aquariums which are protected from predators, so the answer should be well known.
     
  28. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    sureshs:
    Answered above, but you should know that the lobster will outlive the scientist (unless boiled alive, ba dum tss).
     
  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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  30. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    k...so isn't that what I'm saying above?
     
  31. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yes very interesting. In another place I read the maximum lobster life is about 100 years. But I don't think it can be immortal. It just means we haven't studied it for that long.
     
  32. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    I don't know how do they kill cows at the slaughterhouse, I guess it depends on the country/zone's legislation and control, but I'm fully aware that in order to eat a cow, you have to kill it first. And as I've said before, I'm not against killing animals for food.

    I just said we have to look for the best and less cruel way of killing them. Not because that's the way it works in nature (animals don't care being cruel to others, in fact many predators use very cruel ways of killing preys) but because we are a moral species, unlike the rest of animal kingdom. We shouldn't get used to cruelty and we should try to avoid it any time it's possible.
     
  33. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    Does not compute.
     
  34. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    Maybe I didn't explain myself properly as I'm not English native speaker. What was wrong in the sentence?
     
  35. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    Your english is fine, probably better than me. But we are moral species compare to other animals??? What moral things we do that animals don't?
     
  36. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    For example, considering what would be the least cruel way to kill another animal to eat it. And even sometimes giving up eating animals and sticking to eat just vegetables for moral reasons even if animal food is easily available and more convenient.

    Those are moral based decisions I've never seen in other animal species.
     
  37. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Are we so much better than chickens? When was the last time you heard a chicken got shot from a drive-by shooting. When's the last time you heard a chicken came home from work and beat the s**t out his hen? Huh? Never. You know why? Because chickens are decent people.
     
  38. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    We can be so much better than chickens, yes. That's why we are a moral species. Because we can take decisions based on abstract reasoning.

    Our moral reasoning can end being right or wrong, but that's another question. Chickens can't make moral decisions. They can't be worst than they are, but they can't be better either.

    We're the only true moral species around. Other animals not being moral doesn't mean animals always act worst than we do. It means other animals are not capable of a complex moral reasoning. I thought all of this was pretty obvious.
     
  39. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    A lot of other animals kill their prey in the least cruel ways.

    Herbivores have been doing it for millions of years.

    Human as a species is very destructive compare to any other animals.
     
  40. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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  41. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    And a lot do it in the most cruel ways, so?

    Didn't you read the word "considering" in my post? Other animals don't "consider" their ways of killing. They just kill in the ways they know, not as a result of a moral decision they are not able to take. We, on the other hand, can consider new forms of killing and its moral implications. We are moral, they are not.

    Not as a result of a moral decision. We are not herbivores, but we can decide to act ashervibores, as a result of a moral decision.

    Don't tell me you think a cow eats grass as a result of a moral decision, for God's sake.

    Let's be serious.
     
  42. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    They don't need complex moral reasoning aka "excuses" because they are not hypocritical. And BTW, chicken is morally delicious when it is fried right.
     
  43. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    Ok, don't take it personal but I'm done with you. If you think "moral reasoning" is an equivalent of "excuse", we can't keep this discusion because we are at different levels.
     
  44. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    Fedace:
    For someone who was protecting lobsters, you seem quite selfish on this topic now that you may have found the secret to living eternally. But in all honesty, lrn2biochem.
     
  45. FedererBestTennis

    FedererBestTennis Professional

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    It sounds wierd, but the most humane way to kill and cook a lobster is this: Take a chef's knife, lay the tip of the knife directly on its head, puncture down, and come accross the head (basically splitting the brain open). Instantaneous death.
     
  46. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    And so are we.

    They don't consider?? Bears sometimes don't eat people. Sharks usually don't eat people. How more considering you want?? Are you telling me bears don't think? On the other hand, we kill animals for fun all the time. I am not judging but I don't pretend we are high and mighty.

    If we are not herbivores, why pretend??? Unless you are a treehugger living in a forest, you are harming the nature one way or the other.

    First, I don't consider eating meat morally wrong and it is just silly. If it is, cows would be angels. And they are best when medium rare.
     
  47. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    FedererBestTennis:
    I'm not a Biologist on Lobsters, but according to the Wikipedia for a book titled Consider the Lobster and Other Essays it says that lobsters have several ganglia (which as a Biochemist is logical) and so severing the head rarely, if at all, results in unconsciousness or death.

    Basically you just poked a hole in it before you boil it so the water can seep into it's brain.
     
  48. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    if you need moral reasoning to decide whether to eat lobsters or not, we are definitely on a different level. For me, my concern is the current price and seasoning.
     
  49. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    I have done it more than once. The head and the body still "struggle" for quiet a while before it is really "dead". I felt sorry every time.
     
  50. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    If i find the secrets of encapsulated chromosomes, do you think i will win the Novel prize ? or i could just sell it to the select clients ?
     

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