Is it possible to go frm 3.5 to 5.5-6.0 in one year?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Hrandyrko, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    I don't believe the OP is a 3.5 anyway. I am like a weak 3.5 strong 3.0 and I bet I beat him.. If you live around NYC look me up..

    No one really admits to being below 3.5 - its actually hard to find people to play because sometimes you might play a "4.0" you will beat 6-0. For real - I did that... Other times you will play a 4.0 that will clean up on you.. (6-2 etc).

    Pete
     
  2. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    Are you rated?

    I am just asking because I don't know too many 13 year olds who are legit 4.0. Especially who has only played a year.

    If you are self-rated, you may be jumping the gun a little.
     
  3. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    No. 3.5 to 4.5 in 1 year would be a monumental achievement. And even that would require playing 4 or 5 times a week with professional instructions once every week or two. Plus natural ability.
     
  4. Hrandyrko

    Hrandyrko Rookie

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    Thanks 35ft6. :)
     
  5. revolutionary technique

    revolutionary technique Rookie

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    Yes, its usually competitive and they end up winning, but I am a weak 4.5. I can get sets off of them but never really beat them. I have only played a 4.5 2 times. By the way these 4.5's were self rated. I will try to play a real 4.5 and see if I could get a vid up.
     
  6. ubermeyer

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    lolwut

    no it not
     
  7. BullDogTennis

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    have you played tournaments, and beat good 4.0's and low 4.5's or even kept it close with 4.5's? or do you just assume you are this?
     
  8. revolutionary technique

    revolutionary technique Rookie

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    No, I have not played tournys and yes I have played 4.5's before. Though only 2 time I lost both times but it was close. I can't quite recall the score.
     
  9. revolutionary technique

    revolutionary technique Rookie

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    I will post a vid soon today so you guys could get a look at my recent strokes.
     
  10. Fed Kennedy

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    Slow down dude. There is a major gap in skill between each .5 level that widens as you go up the scale. A computer rated 4.5 player is an excellent tennis player. You will be lucky to go 4.0 in one year.
     
  11. itracbui3

    itracbui3 Rookie

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    thats not true.. my friend was a 3.5 player in his junior year in highschool and now he is a freshman in college and he beat a 5.0 college player 6-3
     
  12. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Video games don't count. ;)
     
  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Self-rated = meaningless.

    Play someone who has a good winning record in singles in USTA 4.5 League.
     
  14. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    If you have never played tournaments before, you are not a 4.5, period. Sorry.
     
  15. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    No chance, sorry :oops:
     
  16. herrburgess

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    This is truly the best thread ever.
     
  17. Hrandyrko

    Hrandyrko Rookie

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    I'm glad to be a part of it.
     
  18. cadfael_tex

    cadfael_tex Professional

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    I agree that there is a big leap in ability for each half level in the NTRP judging from what I see in the descriptions.

    This system wasn't in place when I started playing. From my experience learning to play. It took me basically 4 years from picking up a racquet to probably what today would be a weak 5.0. I feel pretty comfortable in that self-assement. The #1 singles when I was a sophomore was probably a strong 5.5 and he dispatched me 6-1 just about every set. However, I was #1 doubles on a weaker high school team and was competetive on the one satellite event (doubles) I played. (Then I went and played football and tore up my knee).

    So I got to go with the majority and say to 6.0 in that time frame is not possible given anything but miraculous talent. 3.5 to 5.0 in a couple of years I think is doable given a modicum of athletic ability, heart, and a lot of work.
     
  19. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Are you talking about high school or college? Because it's very, very rare for anyone to be a strong 5.5 in high school, unless he's a nationally ranked junior who plans to skip college to pursue a pro career.

    BTW, taking only 4 years from picking up a racquet to becoming a 5.0 is nearly unheard of. It's very, very rare.
     
  20. Ultra2HolyGrail

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    Not true. If you take a junior with some talent and athletic ability with no really sunk in bad habits and teach him good technique-grips-etc, it's not at all rare. On the other hand it's not rare at all for a adult who's been playing their whole life to never make 5.0 because they do have bad habits-technique-etc. It's common.
     
  21. cadfael_tex

    cadfael_tex Professional

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    Maybe 4.5; I've slept since then and I'm just going by the descriptions. But I did pick it up very quickly. The guy I'm talking about worked at the pro shop and gave lessons as a high school kid. I move on after that so I don't know what happened to him. I can remember he had tightly strung racquets and that it literally jarred your arm to hit his groundstrokes back. To me that sounds like "You have mastered power and/or consistency as a major weapon."

    As for me, I very well might be one of those old guys who remembers his game better than it was but the descriptions sounds definitely between 4.5 and 5.0 (there are aspects of each that sound accurate).
     
  22. herrburgess

    herrburgess Rookie

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    Me too. I once, when living in Germany in the 90s, told some Germans at a pub that the US would win the upcoming World Cup. When they protested, I simply rebutted their arguments with the point that: "Well, I truly believe we're going to win. We've been practicing...." They loved that one!
     
  23. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I thought I mastered power as a major weapon when I was playing in the 3.0 league. I used power to beat my opponents because 3.0 players don't have great shot tolerance. Then as I played better players my power was no longer a weapon and my lack of consistency became a major weakness for me. The point is that those descriptions are highly relative. Power and consistency at 3.0 is different than power and consistency at 5.0. You can't really understand it until you face players who are at these higher levels and experience firsthand that your game is truly inferior to theirs. I still can't comprehend how bad I suck compared to a pro because I haven't faced one, but I know that I suck because I can't beat someone who is like 5 levels below a pro, so I surely won't beat a pro.
     
  24. cadfael_tex

    cadfael_tex Professional

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    True raiden031. I concede that my experience is anecdotal (and ancient).

    But back to the OP and off my senility tangent. If you are just in this to become pro and that is the only reason you are playing, give it up now. You can't be truly successful at something so competitive without the heart for it. You not only have to want it, but to enjoy it even when the glory isn't there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  25. xFullCourtTenniSx

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    I'm sorry you twisted my words and misunderstood them... You REALLY don't get it do you? The best you can hope for right now is futures. And even then, you'd have to work your ass off!

    And we aren't talking community college players, we're talking D1 material! USC, UCLA, Stanford; THOSE are the schools we're talking about.

    Going from 3.5 to a 6.0 is impossible in a year. Do you realize how many shots you need to work on? Do you realize how much ALL of those shots have to improve? Basically, you're hitting 30-40 mph groundstrokes right now, with no or minimal spin (as well as minimal consistency). 6.0s can easily nail 70+ with crazy amounts of spin and go on all day without missing in practice! The difference between me and a 3.5-4.0 is already a ridiculous amount of difference in spin. The difference between me and a 6.0 is equally ridiculous, if not more ridiculous! Then there's volleys. You'd have to obtain the ability to read where your opponent will throw their passing shots and you need to be able to put them on defense with the first volley, and hit a winner with the second. Any ball that lands near the service line should be hit for a clean winner. Then you need to go from your 50 mph serve to a 120 mph serve and go from no spin to insanely heavy spin, accuracy, consistency, and penetration. Then we take your 3.5 slice second serve, and turn it into a massive, heavily spun kicker (which in itself should take around a year just to hit a decent one consistently). Then after we finish working on all of your strokes, we need to do tournaments to practice those shots under match pressure, so you almost never break down on your shots! ALSO! During the whole time, we need to massively improve your fitness.

    So... This really is an understatement of what you'd have to do to become a 6.0 from a 3.5. This may not look like a lot to do in a single year... But try it... You'll find that just getting one section of your game to that level in a year is by itself nearly impossible!

    You can try to be a 6.0 in a year... Even two... The best I see you making is a 4.5. The difference in racket acceleration, movement, fitness, focus, and shot-making is WAY bigger than you think it is.
     
  26. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    imagine in 2009 you're just a 3.5 like most the other weekend players but by 2010 you've improved so much that you could beat all the wta players, even those who have played the game for more than 20 years :shock: it's really mind boggling
     
  27. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

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    You realize there isnt a huge difference between a futures player and a regular tour player? Its all mental at that level. Any player capable of holding an atp point is capable of being a top 100 player at some point.

    A futures player can get hot and end up qualifying for a tournament and knocking out Sam Querrey

    http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=100056013


    Or give Gonzalez all he can handle

    http://www.itftennis.com/mens/players/activity.asp?player=100052417
     
  28. revolutionary technique

    revolutionary technique Rookie

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    Here is the most recent vid of me hitting, but not the best. I had a cold and a 101 temprature when I was playing. Also I did not have a really good and consistent hitting partner. I just hate having to play people worse than me every day.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=291930
     
  29. Blake0

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    Heres a little sneak peak on 6.0s...watch the videos here..and the guy thats out hitting the other guy 6.0, and the other guy is a 4.0..hey look you're around there..so you can see how much you need to improve.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=291604

    Its not impossible to do (0.00000001% :))..but i doubt it's ever been done in a year..or 2..

    You're saying you want to go from 3.5 which is around high jv / low varsity in highschool level (depends on your school), to being able to compete and do well against D1 students in a year. If you could do that..i'd say you might have the potential to get 20+ grandslams :shock:. The learning curve is high at the beginning for everyone, but as you increase your level the curve slowly gets smaller and smaller...some stop improving, some keep improving but a bit slower, some improve very slowly...

    To me, a lot of people look like they have potential in the first 3 years or so..including a lot of amazing little 8 year olds on youtube, but it's those who are improving at a higher level pretty quickly that have real potential to become one of the best. A lot of highly potential kids..either hit slumps and give up, get injured, stop trying, etc. But your chances aren't 0, so goodluck..but have school as a fallback plan if tennis doesnt work..
     
  30. Hrandyrko

    Hrandyrko Rookie

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    Thanks Blake0 :)
     
  31. Swissv2

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    It took Federer over 4 years to go from a "3.5" (kids tennis) to "6.0" (Semi-Pro).


    So...does the OP still believe he can go from 3.5 to 6.0 in just a year?
    Probably the OP is more talented than Federer. *cough*
     
  32. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    3.5 to 6.0, let's see if we chart that you should be about a 5.0 in 6 months. a 5.5 in 9 months and in 12 months, a 6.0. Hey, it's mathematically, possible
     
  33. Swissv2

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    Its also mathematically possible to say

    3.5 x 2 months = 7.0 Level...WEEEEEEEEE, IMMA PRO.

    yeah,...if only it were *that* easy.
     
  34. SuperDuy

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    i was a 3.0 last year i was 14 now im 15.5 im a high 4.0
     
  35. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Yes, not to dampen the OPs enthusiasm. I started tennis late about 25 years old. I had a big serve, was fast and strong, athletic, I played many other sports before tennis. I progressed remarkable for about 2 years beating partners/opponents with more years of experience. Then, I played my first pusher.......oh my! Eventually, I learned how to deal with pushers, but it was a very rude awakening.
     
  36. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    What is a high 4.0??
     
  37. Swissv2

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    He's A 4.0, not a 4.0

    LOL
     
  38. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    That's pretty good progress and not unlikely. Remember as you progess the learning curve starts to level off, because it's not linear, eventually it is just a flat line, at the level that is a function of you're ability and time on court. Not to get analytical.
     
  39. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I doubt it. A kid who starts even as young as 3 years old (like some of the pros) probably doesn't make it to 5.0 until he's around 15 or so. That's 12 years of intensive training and doing nothing but tennis 24/7 at an academy. And that's assuming he's extremely talented and a naturally gifted athlete and has a strong desire for a pro tennis career.
     
  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    The descriptions are meaningless. Have you ever been rated a 4.5 or 5.0 by the USTA NTRP computer? If not, then I doubt you were ever a 4.5 or 5.0. The general rule is to subtract 1.5 rating points after reading those descriptions. So if by those descriptions you think you are a 5.0, then you are probably really a 3.5 if you were rated by the computer based on match results.
     
  41. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    The player has to hit the described strokes and has to prove it thru competition. You can't just look like a 4.5 or 5.0 in the warmup and play like a 3.5 in competition.
     
  42. Roy125

    Roy125 Professional

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    Anything's possible nowadays.
     
  43. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well, I don't want to burst your bubble. However, I would also encourage you to do as much as possible to get as far as you can go.

    Going from a 3.5 to a 6.0 is an incredible leap. A 6.0 is a player that rivals the highest levels of the best universities in the world and one that can think about going pro if they wanted to and try their luck.

    You really shouldnt be asking us if you want to be a 6.0 that quickly. You should hire the best coach you can find and go from there.

    Wow, you really are serious about this. Basically, it would be an extreme rarity (if it even has ever happened) that someone ca reach 6.0 from 3.5 in a year.
     
  44. Swissv2

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    Rarity meaning NEVER.

    Nadal didn't get from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in a year.
    Federer didn't get from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in a year.
    Sampras didn't get from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in a year.
    Borg didn't get from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in a year.
    Laver didn't get from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in a year.

    If this kid SERIOUSLY thinks he can get from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in a year, then he should be able to win the next 30 GS in a fricken row.
     
  45. GuyClinch

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    I agree with the other poster. The only way to pull this off would be being a combination of being a top athlete and already and a world class player in another racquet sport.

    I think even a top athlete (in a non racquet sport).. (world class NFL CB, MLB shortstop, boxer etc) would be unable to pull this off in one year.

    I do believe its never happened. However its also fair to say that say Jonathon Power didn't quit his squash career at its pinnacle and go into tennis.. Its only a thought experiment of course because top athletes in other racquet sports aren't about to quit to play tennis as they would lose alot of money..

    I also think that you need a intensive exhaustive off-court training program to make huge leaps in your tennis playing ability. At some point on court practice seems to have diminishing returns, IMHO. This is what they do at Bolleteri. They do yoga, weightlifting, speed training etc etc. You don't just play tennis 8 hours a day..

    If you noticed the reverse kind of happened. Gael Monfils was able to capture the paddle tennis championship.. <g> Though honestly paddle tennis isn't exactly a popular sport. Still - its the kind of leap you can make if your already a top athlete in a racquet sport..

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  46. gameboy

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    There is a very popular book "Outliers: The Story of Success" where the author posits that to become an expert at anything it requires 10,000 hours of training/practice (time required for proper muscle memory and brain training).

    In tennis, I would equate 4.5+ to be an expert. That means that even if you practice 4 hours a day, 365 days a year, you have still only accrued 1460 hours by next year. Even if you spent 1000 hours last year (I highly doubt it), you are still 3 to 6 years away from getting to that stage.

    Do you think you can train that hard that long? I doubt it...

    All of this is just moot anyway. Anybody who says that if I can't become a pro, I don't want to play does not have the required passion or love of the game to be really successful. If you REALLY loved this game, playing itself would be enough of a motivation to keep doing it and working at it. It seems all that these kids have are excuses (don't have enough money for equipment/lesson/indoor court time). When I was a teenager, I played 3 hours a day with very little formal lessons. During winter (I grew up on Long Island), I would go out there with a snow shovel and shovel a foot of snow on the court to play. There is absolutely no reason why you cannot play during the winter outside in NE, if you had the desire.

    There is no shortcut to becoming a great tennis player. It takes years and years of hard work and dedication WITHOUT any promise of a payoff. Unless you are uniquely gifted (which you would know already), there is no way to cut short that process.

    And to all the self-rated 4.0's and 4.5's who seem to populate this site, I am sorry to break it to you but you ain't 4.5 or even 4.0. You are probably 3.0 or 3.5 at best. If you are really a 4.5, you have most likely have come across a pro, ranked junior player, or another fully rated 4.5 player (not just another self-rated player who claim they are 4.5) along the way (that you have beaten). If not, I don't care what the USTA level descriptions say, you are not a 4.5 or 4.0.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  47. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    He's a 4.0 who has drunk too much Red Bull or has doubled up on his meds.
     
  48. xFullCourtTenniSx

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    Futures is essentially on par with top D1 schools, give or take. That means they hover around 6.5. And there is a pretty big difference in futures and top pros. Futures are more likely to break down, use faulty strategy, be overeager, and a bunch of other problems. Yes, it's all mental (which is why once Federer got over it he went from top player to untouchable status), but there are still other aspects to it.

    Ryan Sweeting beat Taylor Dent (granted Dent is old and came out of retirement) and although he gave Sam Query a decent run, he was getting killed. He was holding games, but the difference in abilities was clear, and it was just a matter of time before Sweeting broke down and Query would win the set. Sweeting could hit the ball very hard and serve well, but his percentages were horrible. Shots that would be routine winners for most top pros he missed wide. His service percentage was around 30-40% (I think closer to 30). He was able to get away with that on futures and challengers, but not in an ATP event.

    There IS a difference between futures, challengers, ATP, Masters Series, and major events. The difference is mental in addition to difference in either power or consistency.

    Top pros can consistently play well, day in and day out. They know how to win (or most of them do), they rarely have a bad day, and their average quality of play is much higher than challengers events players. Getting hot is stupid to base how good you are. That's like saying a 5.0 who got the hottest he ever got can take Federer to a tiebreak (though that's taking it quite extremely). If Federer got hot for a few certain matches, he'd have 2 calender slams, and the record for highest winning percentage in a season. Sampras got hot and won the 1990 US Open. But after that, he wasn't playing close to that level for another 2 or 3 years!
     
  49. xFullCourtTenniSx

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    Then we should all get his autograph now, right? :)
     
  50. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    there's a guy that plays at the tennis courts where i play. Based upon the way he hits in a rally, he looks to be at least a 4.0 and could be a 4.5, he has very beautiful strokes, everything just looks very awesome. But when he plays a match, he becomes a 3.5, everything just falls apart.

    the problem is in a rally, the other players would hit the ball to him but in a match the other players would hit the ball away from him.

    it's kinda like watching james blake warming up with roger federer. in the warmup, blake looks like federer's equal. in a match, he's not because federer doesn't hit the ball to him. he would hit it away from him.
     

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