Is it time to fire Gilbert

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by barry, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. barry

    barry Hall of Fame

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    Roddick had a bad year, lost in all the Grand Slams, won couple small tournaments, did poorly against top 10 opponents. I think Gilbert has taken him about as far as he can. Time for a change.

    Maybe Anacone can teach him to serve and valley.
     
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  2. VictorS.

    VictorS. Professional

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    I disagree. It's taken three tremendous efforts to beat roddick in grand slams:

    Safin - playing out of his mind at the aussie open

    Federer - at wimbledon

    and JJ - serving out of his mind at US open


    He's played well at the TMS events for the most part. Winning in Miami and making the finals at Toronto. Gilbert is the best tennis strategist in the game. Roddick can find people to help him with the serve and volley, etc. He doesn't necessarily have to fire gilbert and hire someone else.
     
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  3. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    He oughta just retire. He's obviously washed up. (sarcasm)
     
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  4. perfmode

    perfmode Hall of Fame

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    Hello, Roddick is #2 in the world. The only thing stopping him from being #1 is a guy named Federer. He's doing really well.
     
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  5. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    Why is it that every time Roddick loses one match, this same thread pops up?

    If Roddick won every SINGLE FREAKING match he played, he'd be doing a lot better than No. 2, don't you think?
     
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  6. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    He has improved a lot under Gilbert. I believe the last two losses to Federer (Wimbledon, Canadian Open) bothered him a lot. He felt he is so close to Federer's level but yet so far away.
     
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  7. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    The mentality of this post is soo typical of todays society !
    Company expectations dont meet quarterly forcasts, fire the CEO.
    Tired of your job, quit.
    Not happy with your wifes performance, divorce her.
    Cars starting to run roughly, trade it in.
    Computer is running to slow, buy another.
    Making too many errors, find another racket.
    Not feeling so great, take some pills.
    Pretty soon these will be standard practices programmed into your personal assistant so you better start thinking about these rash decisions :cry:
     
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  8. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    Well said, joe.
     
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  9. Aoya

    Aoya Rookie

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    Well, the problem with Grand Slam events, is that there's ONE winner..and everyone else is a loser. I'm guessing if everyone would fire their coaches, they could just rotate coaches, and it'd be a temporary fix.
     
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  10. voltman

    voltman Rookie

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    Or just do what Federer does and not bother with a coach.
     
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  11. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    I agree with joe sch. Those are words many folks live by, and they regret it later.

    I doubt Andy will make such a snap decision. He's qualified for Houston, he's on the Davis Cup team for the semis -- he can make a bit more noise this year. And I'm sure he will.

    But more to the point, Brad took him to No. 1 last year, and to No. 2 this year, behind Federer.

    Who do you think would be a better coach for him? I'd like to hear it, because I have no clue. It's true that he has more he could improve upon, but who would be a better coach than Brad?

    I know Paul was mentioned, but he's occupied for the moment. So what's Andy to do?
     
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

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    Gilbert has taken Roddicks game ahead in leaps and bounds. There will be temporary hiccups of course, but that happens to everyone. Roddick went out at Wimbledon and took it to Fed with a great game plan before rain and Fed's class stifled him. I'm sure roddick will be on the upward slide again very soon.
     
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  13. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with the man from dayown unda. Gilbert is a good coach and he's good for Roddick.
     
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  14. D.  Nelson

    D. Nelson Semi-Pro

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    The mentality of this post is soo typical of todays society !
    Company expectations dont meet quarterly forcasts, fire the CEO.
    Tired of your job, quit.
    Not happy with your wifes performance, divorce her.
    Cars starting to run roughly, trade it in.
    Computer is running to slow, buy another.
    Making too many errors, find another racket.
    Not feeling so great, take some pills.
    Pretty soon these will be standard practices programmed into your personal assistant so you better start thinking about these rash decisions

    ...........................geez........that looks like my 'To Do List' for today...........................................OUCH !!!!!!!
     
    #14
  15. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    roddick took roddick to where roddick is today. many coaches could have done what gilbert has done IMO, and i think coaches are mostly overrated as far as their contribution to a players developmet. pretty easy to take someone w. roddick skills to near the top IMO. if gilbert coached roddick to hang 20 feet behind the baseline and play D with a power game like he has, then i think maybe he isnt so much of a great coach afterall. If you read his book and watched his style of play, his philosophy of tenis does not match Roddicks natural style at all..it is more of a match to the Agassi style. I think Gilbert did far more for Agassi than he has or will do for Roddick because their styles are more similar. I think Roddick needs a coach who has a playing mentality more closely matched to his natural playing style, and it is time to for a coaching change. Ed
     
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  16. larrhall

    larrhall Semi-Pro

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    I think Andy's habit of hanging behind the baseline began BBG. I am pretty sure Brad has worked with him extensively on volleying and slicing off the backhand to facilitate net charges. Roddick's improvements under Gilbert's direction were nearly instantaneous, and then continuous. I think there is an assumption that Roddick should be #1 among some fans, and that this assumption is flawed. I think he's in the right position - #2 - which shows that he has become a great player. He is not a choker by any means, but rather a highly competitive pro tennis player with two unbelievable weapons. He's got a few flaws - mediocre footwork, and an inability to think well on his feet. What does this mean? When Johansson started power-blasting Andy, Roddick immediately tried to return the favor. Perhaps he was in shock. The recognition of power having met its match was on his face, though, during this match. Had he adjusted his tactics - and not many would have, considering testosterone flow regulations and just plain stubbornness - he might have bested the Swedish cyborg. But to suddently start junkballing him would have meant admission of a lower power quotient.

    If you were Andy Roddick, would you want to be seen playing like a big, trucker-version of Fabrice Santoro? No...He dealt with it as most would, focusing on the ump's bad moves, etc. Yet he learns quickly. He wants to win. I believe one of the reasons that BG worked with Andy on volleys is that he, Brad, is aware that Andy can get trapped on his backhand side and that his footwork has a tendency to seize up in big moments. Roddick is a learner, Roddick wants to win, and in six months I predict you'll see Roddick doing whatever it takes to oppose the Johansson-brand of steamroller.

    Federer? Not sure about that one, but if Roddick does what i just described, then effect he will be imitating what Tim Henman does to Andy on court, and that would be, for the A-Rod, a good thing.
     
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  17. AndyC

    AndyC Semi-Pro

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    except the biggest problem is Roddick just hasn't got the natural reflexes/movement of a volleyer. He's making more volleys but he still looks very limited in this department.

    take Lendl for example.. he learnt to play the volley well enough so that he looked very correct and even sometimes natural volleying but at the end of the day he still wasn't good enough at it. I don't ever see Roddick's volleying being more than a change of tactics to win a few cheap points. it's certainly never going to be something he can do on a consistent basis throughout the match.

    is it time to fire BG? maybe.. BG has made Roddick a better player. the question is how many other coaches can continue to do the same but at a faster pace.
     
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  18. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    that fine larrhall, but isnt it the coaches job to change a players style for the better? so if what you say about roddick so far back before gilbert came along is true, how does that in some way make him a good coach for NOT changing a style not suited for him..i just dont understand your logic.
     
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  19. yee

    yee Rookie

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    To BG's credit, Andy's game did improve for the past year, his backhand and we certainly see him making efforts coming into the net which he never did before. '

    But I still can't help thinking that Andy can be better. I remembered BG used to say what he's going to do with Andy is to maximise what he does best and worry less about what he doesn't. Is that really the best approach to coach Andy at his young career?

    Andy fired Tarik after his 1st round FO loss, but he was already on route to a great tournament in Queens before BG came into picture. Did we see much improvement of Andy in FO this year? Nope. I can't help thinking BG was given a bit too much credit in terms of his coaching on Andy.

    I don't think BG is giving variety of game tactics advice to Andy except telling him to just go out and execute one game plan that is to blast your opponent off court. Ironically Andy's game did improve and yet he was far from his dominating form like last year (though the results itself its not bad)
     
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  20. Tim Tiger Henman

    Tim Tiger Henman Rookie

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    Whether BG has improved Roddicks game or not is not the issue. The point is can he improve it further? I honestly don't think so. I think its time to move on. If Roddick is smart he will poach Henmans coach - Paul Annacone - who I think has done wonders for Henman.

    Possibly the best coach on the tour.
     
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  21. larrhall

    larrhall Semi-Pro

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    Ed, i was trying to say that Gilbert did influence Andy to change his style. I meant to say that BBG Roddick was only on the baseline, where he alternated between an aggressive, Agassi-style play and a Chang-style defense. He never came to net and never sliced - had no slice. ABG (after Brad), Roddick began to mix it up. I believe that Brad helped him by persuading him to play primarily aggressive tennis - mostly on the baseline but looking to use the forehand as both a putaway shot and a forcing shot. THe volley then would be the coup de grace, but first Andy had to learn how to volley. Therefore the volley lessons.

    Whether it will work - whether Andy has the volleying skills and versatility to combine backcourt and forcing/net play - I don't know. A lot of people think he still can't volley. Maybe he needs to change tactics again. I personally think Gilbert is a smart coach, and if he thinks Andy has reached his limit on the coming forward deal, he'll try something else.

    But it may well be that Andy's skills/talents are a bit overrated. It may also be that no coach will now take Andy forward, that he has essentially peaked.
     
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  22. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    dont think annacone is a good choice for roddick either..the guy doesnt belong at the net in the same way he doesnt belong 20' behind the baseline. being that far back really does take away from his forehand for two reasons. and coming into the net for roddick hasnt really paid off and he can pretty easily actually fall down when he tries to play s.v ;) i think Roddick can improve..but only slightly, but everyone else on tour is getting better and better too...i'm afraid his pure drive game has come along as far as it can..and when he gets injured stick a fork in him cuz he'll be done IMO. he sure can play alot smarter tho. Ed
     
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  23. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    NoBadMojo - I agree. Roddick's game has essentially gone as far as it can go. Gilbert's comments regarding Andy's game have always centered around his first serve and forehand. It would seem that Gilbert has made Roddick focus on his two strengths, and on those strengths alone, Roddick has built a winning combination. Unfortunately for Roddick once the rest of the crowd figure out how to play him, or beats him at his own game, he has nothing else to fall back on.

    Agassi, by contrast, was out hitting everyone when he was on. But, as we all know, no one can be on all the time. Gilbert talked extensively about making Agassi focus on at least 8 ball rallies, working on making his opponent work harder than he did. Gilbert's plan worked very well for Agassi causing him to focus on consistency rather than flash. I don't think the same line of thought will work for Roddick simply because the guy doesn't possess the tools. That's not a bad thing, but Roddick is no Agassi.

    Back to the initial thread's question though, I don't think Gilbert and Roddick should part. Roddick is all braun and needs some brain to help him figure out what he needs to do. It was quite evident that Gilbert made a huge difference in his results (not so much his game) and should Roddick part company with Gilbert, he'd better have someone just as tactically smart lined up to help him.
     
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