Is Kei Nishkori proof against modern game ?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Nostradamus, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Kei proved that small guy can push around and beat up big guys. He beat Berdych and Raonic to win Japan open. prototypical Big men in modern game who is supposed to dominate talented small guys like Kei was beaten and actually outpowered from the baseline.

    Kei proved Small men can still win Big tournaments over prototypical big men of modern game of tennis. So are the experts wrong in saying that you have to be 6'4" and must have 130 mph serves and big time power as well as speed to win big tournaments and majors ?
     
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  2. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Yeah, but he has nasty power for his size. All he needs is a serve to really break through.
     
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  3. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    I never understood why people said that tennis requires you to be tall. I mean why? You know that height isn't synonymous to power, right? Nishikori hits hard enough.
     
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  4. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Nishikori is proof OF the modern game. You need all the shots + the legs and the mind.
     
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  5. 1477aces

    1477aces Hall of Fame

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    What do you mean? Nishikori is the typical modern pusher like nadal and djokovic. Though nadal and djokovic are tall, the have little power and serve worse than ferrer.
     
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  6. ductrung3993

    ductrung3993 Hall of Fame

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  7. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    He packs a lot of power in a small body.
     
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  8. nereis

    nereis Semi-Pro

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    Being 5'10-5'11 isn't so much a detriment so long as you are a phenomenal athlete with great hand-eye coordination who can generate more explosive power per pound than taller guys.

    Case in point: Agassi, Connors, Chang, Hewitt, Ferrer, Nalbandian.
     
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  9. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Agassi wasn't a great athlete. Connors is incomparable to the modern era. Chang didn't have great power either. Neither did Hewitt. Ferrer is strong, but his shots don't have explosive power either. Nalbandian has the power to do damage, but he also isn't a great athlete.
     
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  10. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    At least he doesn't do illegal performance drugs and then lie about it to the governing bodies.
     
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  11. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    nishikori hits with huge power.
     
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  12. President

    President Legend

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    The modern game is more about defense than offense, look at 3 out of the top 4. Also, Nishikori's forehand is a very explosive and heavy shot and his backhand is one of the cleanest on tour.
     
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  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But it is. There's a simple reason why tall guys like Del Potro, Berdych, Soderling, Rosol, etc. can hit their groundstrokes so hard. They can generate more torque with the same swing. Torque = Force x Distance. So with the same amount of force on their swing, they can generate more torque because their arms are longer so they hit the ball further away from where the force is applied (shoulder).

    And of course, no one is going to argue that all else being equal, taller players can hit their serves bigger than shorter players can due to leverage and angle (and net height).
     
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  14. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    I don't know who the "experts" are that the OP says are saying you "have" to be 6'4" to play quality tennis -- I do know that some of these same alleged experts do seem to be decrying how hard movement gets when a player gets to be about 6'5" or so.

    That said, someone on one of the other threads the other day was decrying players who were "short" as "poor representatives of the game". Do people not know about Ollie Rochus?

    What is Kei, 5'9" or so? He's not short.
    He's always been good enough that Rafa said some years ago that he would probably be a Top Ten player some day. I really am not sure I understand all the surprise.
     
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  15. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Kei is 5'10" and super strong and fast. He's proof of the modern baseliner BUT he can do magical things around the net too.
     
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  16. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Or attack cities and eat their buildings
     
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  17. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Agree, taller guys with Longer arms provide more swing speed and more power in turn. but i think Nishikori just has uncanny timing on his shots like Agassi did. and if you time the ball perfectly every time with good torque and swing speed, you can produce Huge power.
    Other guys can't do that if they are small because they are not as Blessed with that kind of talent.
     
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  18. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    5'9" or even 5'10" is indeed short for pro tennis these days. When was the last time a guy under 6 feet tall won a Slam or was ranked #1?
     
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  19. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I'm not saying that it's impossible to hit with power if you are not tall, but it's just easier to do so if you're tall. Guys like Del Potro and Berdych don't even appear to be swinging that fast but can still generate tons of power. If you're short, it requires more precise timing and taking the ball earlier. And of course, it's much easier to blast serves if you're taller.
     
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  20. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Off topic but what tension does Kei string his racket at ? I like to duplicate it in hopes of playing just like Kei did in the final of Japan open.
     
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  21. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Kei seems to appear indoors when the season is coming to an end. What was he doing most of this year because I certainly didn't see him after the AO.
     
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  22. corners

    corners Legend

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    Any experts who said this apparently haven't noticed that none of the big four are 6'4" and only rarely hit serves at 130 mph. Power, yeah, they have that. Speed, yep. But Kei has these things to, just in a smaller package. Smaller guy with big game!
     
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  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I don't know what Nishikori's tension is but using his racquet or his tension is not what's going to make you play like him.
     
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  24. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Rios and Agassi I guess would be the last unless some clay bunny like Gaudio was shorter than 6 feet tall.
     
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  25. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Not really at all. I like the guy and happy he won a decent sized tournament for himself today, but he still hasnt come anywhere near cracking the upper echelon of the game. Not sure how high he can go, but his ever winning a slam would be a huge surprise.
     
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  26. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    I love this kind of post. Half the TT board EXPECT Raonic to win a slam, but Nishikori? NOOOOOO.

    So, who won the event in Tokyo, again? And who did they beat in the final?

    I LOVE this place!
     
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  27. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Juan Carlos Ferrero is listed at 6', but I'd be surprised if he really is that tall.

    (Sorry if I'm wrong, J.C.)
     
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  28. nereis

    nereis Semi-Pro

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    There are many different types of talent in the athletic sense, especially when it comes to tennis.

    All of those guys hit far harder than their height would imply, Agassi and Connors especially. What all these guys have in common is incredibly strong trunks, good timing and great strength:weight ratio in general.

    Connor's contemporaries included guys like Tanner, Ashe, McEnroe and the like who were all taller than him but could not generate the same kind of pace off of both sides.

    Agassi's power is prodigious and a function of his father's Olympic boxer genes and incredible hand eye coordination. He emerged on the scene hitting harder off of both sides and earlier than just about anyone else in the sport.

    Chang and Hewitt both could produce pace and crack winners. I'm not sure what anyone is saying about them being powerless. Both were evenly matched with the players of their day and could hit winners. Here are some examples of what kind of pace they can generate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=396qtU_GcnA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Yf1ZsWRQQ

    Ferrer and Nalbandian likewise have stout strength and would likely be able to overpower someone like Djokovic in a straight up lifting contest. That both can overpower taller men off the ground (like Davydenko) is a testament to their ability to time the ball and generate lots of torque into the shot.

    What these guys have in common is that they are all unusually strong, have great hand-eye coordination and that allows them to be evenly matched off the ground with taller men.

    These type of men are very rare, and that means that there will always be less of them than 6'5 guys who can rely on their length of limb to generate pace.
     
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  29. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Kei Nishikori does not eat buildings.
     
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  30. Razoredge

    Razoredge Banned

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    Nishikori would be a much better player if the courts were faster than they are now.

    Just look at his run through in Tokyo, where the court's are a bit faster, look at his match against Bagdhatis. Complete ownage.
     
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  31. Razoredge

    Razoredge Banned

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    BTW, the dogma of so called tennis experts is just that, dogma and nothing more.

    Look at Justine Henin's domination before she retired, a chick that size with that game could never ever be a champion in the "modern game" they said. It's all about the Sharapova's and the Serena's they said.

    Complete garbage.
     
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  32. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Exactly, Tokyo. I think those who expect Nishikori to win a major are insane. I also think those who think Raonic will win one are nearly as insane.
     
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  33. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Well that just depends on how good the future generation (the one after Raonic and Nishikori) will be. In time, the current top 10 will retire (I'm not looking forward to it) and the ones left will be players like Raonic, Nishikori, Dimitrov, Tomic, Goffin, Janowizc. If the future field stays that weak, Nishikori and Raonic might have a chance. Especially Raonic with his serve can try and win Wimbledon.
     
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  34. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Nishikori winning the Japan Open isn't proof of anything. He just wanted the tournament more than anybody else.
     
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  35. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Kei is the modern Agassi.
     
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  36. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    If the modern Agassi was a tier below his true self, then yes.
     
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  37. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    Well, Tim Lincecum, Pedro Martinez, Billy Wagner and a handful of other sub 6" guys could throw harder than the tall guys. A LOT of short guys could hit hard in tennis. I think they are not as successful because of their serve and their relatively smaller optimum hitting range.
     
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  38. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

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    come on, think:
    J. Tipsarevic (atp#9, 5'10" real height) ;similar game body and similar game
     
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  39. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    ^this, being taller gives you more torque on the backswing, hence more natural/effortless power. Look at baseball and also golf. shorter golfers need to rely heavily on their short game all the time. It's physics

    Messi is an exception to short athletes what an amazing guy.

    Perfect tennis height is 6'1-6'2 imo, gives power and doesn't hinder movement or trouble hitting slices.

    Novak is 6'3 but he also has a long head and neck -:)
     
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  40. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    And 6'1", 6'2" or so has been the ideal size since the early days of tennis. Many guys have been shorter than that and won slams and been the top player.
     
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  41. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Nishkori could play lights out against Djokovic and still lose comfortably.

    He's a good top 10 player, nothing more.
     
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  42. Ripster

    Ripster Hall of Fame

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    Nishikori has a better chance than Raonic in my opinion. Predicting any young player to win a GS before they reach that pinnacle may sound insane at the time, but I like his chances compared to the other young guys. If you look at the younger generation I'd put Kei right behind Del Potro in terms of favourites to win grand slams. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he won one or more.
     
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  43. citybert

    citybert Professional

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    In order for raonic to win they need to speed up the courts and he needs to improve footwork. Both are very unlikely
     
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