Is Murray the biggest pusher on the tour?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Dutch-Guy, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,048
    Location:
    Amsterdam,The Netherlands
    Did Murray apply a good working "pushing tactic" today?

    Those that watched his match against Gulbis know what i'm talking about.
    Murray went only 2-3 times to the net in the whole match.Had Gulbis gone more to the net or dropped some good droppers,he'd have at least taken a set.Murray's pushing tactic against Gulbis was effective and worked well.Why fix it if it ain't broke :).I was supporting him and he won.Well done.

    Notice:this is an observation,not a criticism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
    #1
  2. gj011

    gj011 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,548
    Location:
    Back from prison
    No. Djokovic is bigger pusher these days.
     
    #2
  3. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    No, pusher is too strong a word, I think when he gets obvious chances hes too good atttackingly to be called pusher. I just really think he's too freakin defensive and it's very frustrating. I always saw his talent, his touch at net, his dropshot, all that. He kinda let go of the dropshot, hits a lot of defensive balls and actually plays very very little at the net. His game relies mostly on defense and winning free points or easy putaways with his first serve. I think he's a great player, but for instance, I'd think he'd make a lovely serve-and-volleyer if he wanted to be. Not all the time, but 30-50 percent of first serves he could play that way effectively I think.

    Hope his game gets better with age, but I just hate the fact a game like this can be rewarding. Therefore I hope the first attacking player he faces takes him out really. Whether that's wawrinka, Roddick, or even Federer in the final I don't care.
     
    #3
  4. rod99

    rod99 Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,197
    murray knew that gulbis wanted pace so he took pace off the ball and make gulbis create it himself. "pushing" isn't always a bad thing. the good thing about murray is that he scouts his opponents and has a different gameplan depending on who the opponent is.
     
    #4
  5. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    Lol... Djokovic plays too defensive, but he still goes for a lot. Still like his game 10 times better than Murray's although it's much worse atm
     
    #5
  6. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    756
    Location:
    Maryland
    Not sure if Murray is the biggest pusher, but he sure did push against Gulbis.
    I think he realized that Gulbis was a bit too wild today. Murray did the bare minimum to win without trying for anything huge. Not exciting to watch by any means. Against the better players, however, he will need to take a few risks if he wants to go deep.
     
    #6
  7. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    It was a tactic.

    Did he play like that against Nadal at the US Open? Does he play like that against Federer? No, he doesn't. It was a tactic that worked against Gulbis.

    It was a straight sets win. Jeez, you guys have no appreciation for intelligent play. A guy employs a tactic for one match and suddenly you think he does it in every match.
     
    #7
  8. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    He blew Wawrinka off the court in last year's US Open with attacking play. You guys need to learn to appreciate that he does not play exactly the same way from match to match. He's not going to ballbash against Gulbis or take unnecessary risks.
     
    #8
  9. maximo

    maximo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    London
    Agree with all of this.
     
    #9
  10. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,735
    Location:
    CT
    I don't know if his game qualifies as a "pusher" but Murray's game is one of the most mindful tennis out there.
     
    #10
  11. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,836
    He does push a lot sometimes, and I understand why people don't like it, but against Gulbis, it really was the perfect tactic. Can't fault him for "pushing" today.
     
    #11
  12. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Both Murray and Nadal play tennis the way it should be played. Versatility for the win.
     
    #12
  13. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,016
    Location:
    Weak era
    For me(just my opinion)there are no such thing as pushers in proffesional tennis so the answer is no.
     
    #13
  14. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,658
    Location:
    Texas
    Are you saying Fed is not as versatile as Murray & Nadal?
     
    #14
  15. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,735
    Location:
    CT
    Nadal's game and accomplishments aside, this deluded statement is just taking it to another level.
    BTW this thread has nothing to do with Rafa.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
    #15
  16. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Fed is more of a ball basher.
     
    #16
  17. Dgpsx7

    Dgpsx7 Professional

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,164
    I don't think he is necessarily a pusher he was just putting a gameplan through today. He knew that Gulbis would work off of pace so he kept slicing it to him and it worked. This is very similar to what Roddick did today he kept slicing to Kutisyn because he knew if he hit hard that he would use the pace. Roddick did this and he is by no means a pusher. Both Murray and Roddick are amazing players and they played to win today.
     
    #17
  18. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Also the grass is very low bouncing despite peoples beliefs otherwise. Slice is great on this surface.
     
    #18
  19. maximo

    maximo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    London
    Federer slices every return which = boring.
     
    #19
  20. shadows

    shadows Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    8,034
    Location:
    England
    Murray is a neutralising counter-puncher; he works out how to nullify his opponents strengths, and in the meantime attacks their weaknesses.
     
    #20
  21. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,406
    What makes you think that, that's how tennis should be played?
     
    #21
  22. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,048
    Location:
    Amsterdam,The Netherlands
    I didn't watch that match so i can't really tell.
    That's why i said don't fix it if it ani't broke.That tactic worked against Gulbis and may work against other players as the tourney progresses,so he doesn't have to change.Don't take it as a criticism Cly.
     
    #22
  23. EtePras

    EtePras Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    733
    Nobody is a bigger pusher than Roddick, so this thread fails.
     
    #23
  24. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,735
    Location:
    CT
    That's graceful ball basher to you.


    BTW please try not posting if you have fallen from your bed bunk that morning. Thank you.
     
    #24
  25. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,048
    Location:
    Amsterdam,The Netherlands
    Yo max,i didn't mean that Murray is a pusher.I actually meant "did he apply a good working pushing" tactic" today? Btw i just changed the title of the thread.
     
    #25
  26. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    13,186
    I agree with you it was a tactic, and quite a good one in this case, but this tactic sometimes fails him when he faces players that are better defenders or very good attackers. This tactic has failed him against Gonzales at the FO.
     
    #26
  27. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Yes a ball basher with girly movement. This thread was made from someone that woke up on the wrong side of the bed. lol
     
    #27
  28. rod99

    rod99 Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,197
    this is not a true statement. federer is more versatile than either of these guys, with murray a close second.
     
    #28
  29. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    Gonzo woud have beaten Murray no matter what at the French, I reckon. At the moment, Gonzo is simply a superior clay courter. I'd be very surprised if Gonzo beats Andy on grass, should they meet.
     
    #29
  30. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    Exactly. That is by no means a "pusher". A pusher is not able to construct points or put away shots, and is not able to exert any pressure on the opponent. A pusher can only get everything back and rely on completely unforced errors by the opponent. Whereas a counter-puncher creates opportunities with good defense, is able to capitalize on openings that this creates, and can keep the opponent under pressure.

    I for one enjoy watching Murray play because there is more that I can learn from him than from most other players on the tour. Let's face it, 99.9% of us do not and will never have the strokes that these guys have, so we can't emulate their game. But we can definitely learn strategy and point construction from someone like Murray.
     
    #30
  31. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,048
    Location:
    Amsterdam,The Netherlands
    Nadal_Freak and Fed fans,please don't turn this thread into another Fed vs Nadal ***. We already have enough of such threads here.
     
    #31
  32. serve/and/volley

    serve/and/volley Rookie

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    287
    Exactly. Murray is the very best at Brad Gilbert's style of tennis.

    Rafa on the other hand is an agressive counter-puncher. Rafa is a much more offensive player than Murray. Look at Rafa's utter destruction of Murray at Indian Wells this year.

    Murray is not the biggest pusher on the tour. He is not even the biggest pusher in the top 10. That would be Gilles Simon.

    People like Murray's game because his is the only type that amateurs can replicate. There is no way you can replicate Rafa's game, and there is no way you can replicate Federer's game. Murray's game you can, since he doesn't really have any huge weapons. Murray's best shot is his backhand, but that is used to break an opponent down, instead of dominating them like Nalbandian's backhand.

    So in short, all you amateurs watch Murray's game and learn, because it will improve your own game.
     
    #32
  33. SmAsH999

    SmAsH999 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    on top of the net, ready to put away an easy volle
    you can't call someone a pusher who had 88% first serves in, around 30 winners, and only 5 errors for the whole match.
     
    #33
  34. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    I don't think they can emulate Murray's game. They can learn from his tactics, but by no means can they hope to have strokes even remotely on a par with Murray. He has one of the most complete, complex games on tour. I have no idea why you think an amateur could emulate Murray's game.
     
    #34
  35. serve/and/volley

    serve/and/volley Rookie

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    287
    His game is not as complex as Federer's or Nadal's. But that topic is subjective. I learn more from watching Murray than I do from Nadal.
     
    #35
  36. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,514
    Nonsense. Federer has been credited for years for being one of the few players with all-court sense & skills, which a ball basher (or dreary baseliner) would not have.
     
    #36
  37. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    I know that. In all my posts I've said that I respect his results and his will to win, and his fighting spirit. I just WISH he would keep the history of british tennis and wimbledon in his mind and would try to win in an attractive way, especially up a set and a break. I understand that he doesn't, but I will never be his fan because he produces matches like these. It's perfectly legitimate but I won't ever like it.

    btw, I also didn't say I believed Wawrinka stands a chance. I'll just be rooting for him.
     
    #37
  38. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,101
    Location:
    England London
    No, no, no and no!

    He is not a pusher/hacker whatever the hell you wanna call it, this thread gets made every bloody week of every bloody month of every bloody year!

    He plays an unconventional tactical game where by he adapts his game to exploit each respective player's weakness he comes up against.

    He has all the shots and all the mental capabilities worthy of being the next Wimbledon Champion.
     
    #38
  39. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Fed just pounds the heck of the ball while Murray slices and dices. Fed should learn from Murray.
     
    #39
  40. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    Right. Nadal uses a lot more variety.
     
    #40
  41. ChanceEncounter

    ChanceEncounter Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,269
    Saying he doesn't like the style of play doesn't mean he has no appreciation for his ability to win. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
     
    #41
  42. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,698
    He's not a pusher, he's more of a counter-puncher.
     
    #42
  43. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    Exactly. He's not a pusher either, and I'm sure it's very hard what murray does. I just can't watch it.
     
    #43
  44. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    It kind of does when we get another "Is Murray a Pusher?" thread.

    That indicates a lack of appreciation, wouldn't you say?
     
    #44
  45. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    even you, the freak, can't be that blind!

    if you ever played tennis in your life you would realize that federer's slice>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>murray's slice


    try playing sometime-you might like it
     
    #45
  46. maximo

    maximo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    London
    Oh look, the deluded hater strikes again.
     
    #46
  47. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    oh look, the idiot unable to spell gives it another shot
     
    #47
  48. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,511
    I wish you would stop with the grammar insults. You're not exactly a literary genius yourself.
     
    #48
  49. maximo

    maximo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    London
    Yep, he's definitely delusional...
     
    #49
  50. orangettecoleman

    orangettecoleman Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,208
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    If playing everything high-percentage and low risk wins you the match, that's called being a smart player, not a pusher. Murray is perfectly capable of being more aggressive but is smart enough to know that it's silly to risk losing the match through making errors unless playing it safe isn't working. this is exactly the difference between someone like murray and someone like gulbis by the way. gulbis wants to be the big man and hit winners all the time, and that's why he self-destructs with UEs every other match.
     
    #50

Share This Page