Is Murrokovic going to send Fedal to the grave?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Mike Sams, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Take a look at the stats for both Federer and Nadal respectively whenever they are having to face the enormous task of beating Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic in back to back matches. Once again today, Federer could not beat them back to back even on his best surface indoors.
    Nadal has not managed to beat them back to back since World Tour Finals 2010 and before then, Monte Carlo 2009.
    In 2013, Murrokovic only gets stronger. It's a big ask for anybody to go and beat 2 Grand Slam Champions back to back. Even god mode Federer is struggling. He got them both at Wimbledon (roof closing in the final helped a bit). He didn't have much luck prior or since.
    Nadal likewise has not the strength nor the talent to beat Murrokovic one after the other unless it's clay and even then it's a tremendous challenge.
    It seems Fedal is coming to an end and Murrokovic is rising. 2013 may spell the official end of Fedal...
     
    #1
  2. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    The same Murray that lost to Fed in the semi? You never fail to bring out the sheer :lol:
     
    #2
  3. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,872
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Yep. The same Murray who beat him by the same margin in Shanghai just a couple of weeks earlier!

    The point he's making is that Federer and Nadal will have trouble beating Murray AND Djokovic back to back. They may get one but they will rarely get them both.

    IMO perfectly reasonable point to make!
     
    #3
  4. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Obviously you didn't read my post. :lol:
    Federer beat Murray but lost to Djokovic. Therefore he failed in beating Murray-Djokovic in back to back matches. Murray-Djokovic aka Murrokovic.
    There was a time when beating Federer and Nadal back to back was a huge deal. Same thing seems to be the case with Murray-Djokovic. Nadal can't seem to do it off clay, Federer can't seem to do it off grass.
    That's my point.
     
    #4
  5. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Forget it Mainad. Clarky makes opinions before he can comprehend the information. :lol:
     
    #5
  6. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Fed is in his 30s, so he's heading to the exit regardless of Murray/Djoko. Nadal sent himself out this year (not deliberately of course) and that had to do with his own body and neither Murray nor Djoko whom he beat in 3 finals before his knee problems started.
     
    #6
  7. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    12,716
    Location:
    Carrboro, NC
    I prefer Djokey
     
    #7
  8. Lavs

    Lavs Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    872
    Easy, setup the double match Murray/Djokovic vs Federer/Nadal. Then this thread can be closed.
     
    #8
  9. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686


    Nadal is heading to the exit himself so I don't know why you keep bringing this up. And in case you haven't noticed,Fed is STILL playing and making finals,even at his age. Where's Nadal? He's 5 years younger and is finished. I am actually getting so sick of your gloating over Fed having to retire soon,that I hope Nadal retires just to see this all blow up in your face. You definitely deserve it.
     
    #9
  10. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,704
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    How many times had Federer the chance to play with Djokovic and Murray back to back this year, and what are his results in those cases?
     
    #10
  11. zam88

    zam88 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,336
    Federer is 31, stop posting threads like he's in his absolute prime and is getting kicked to the curb.


    Is Federer's dominance over these 2 over? Sure. Is he still going to beat them 4 times out of 10? For the next year or two i say absolutely!
     
    #11
  12. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Well both Murray and Nole are better HC players than rafa so yeah. And also fed almost got nole yesterday he just faltered plus he is 31 and he's not really moving nearly as we'll as those guys
     
    #12
  13. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,568

    I make it 3 times:

    Wimbledon: Sexi won
    Shanghai - lost to Murray
    WTF - lost to Noel
     
    #13
  14. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Nadal beating both on clay is quite easy for him to do if he is semi fit. Not that he would have to beat Murray much as Murray will rarely even make the semis.

    Federer or Nadal beating both on grass is also quite easy to imagine happening.

    The same could be said in reverse. If Nadal is back in form by atleast the middle of next year, it will be very hard for either Djokovic or Murray to beat Federer and Nadal back to back. Extremely difficult for either to manage it on clay or grass, they never have in a major event, even Djokovic only won his Wimbledon after Federer's upset and not having to face him preceding Nadal. Even on hard courts would be difficult, Djokovic can do it, Murray would find it harder probably.
     
    #14
  15. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Very true on all counts.
     
    #15
  16. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,704
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    I mean, not where he theoretically had the chance to meet them, but where he actually met them (which requires, that he beat at least one of them, and won/lost against the other).

    I ask, because the OP asked, if he can beat them back to back. I know, that it is difficult scenario to discuss (especially when he has lost to either of them in different tournaments), but we could, in the light of the fact, that the form he is in, plays significant role in his chances of defeating both of them, or losing to either of them.

    I make it out to be 2 times.

    Wimbledon: The Legend won
    WTF: The Legend lost

    How could the OP draw such conclusion from that sample is beyond me, but maybe he can elaborate on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
    #16
  17. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,818
    The hurdle for Fedal at this point is not Murray, but Djok only. If Fedal were consistently getting past Djok and then falling to Murray, this would apply.
     
    #17
  18. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    When it comes to Federer and Murray the patterns remains the same thus far. Federer dominates the big matches, he is 7-2 vs Murray at the Slams, Olympics, WTF, and Davis Cup all combined, while Murray dominates the smaller meetings. Shanghai and WTF shows the pattern is still going strong.

    The other dumb thing about this thread is that Djokovic and Murray are not even ranked #1 and #2 now. Djokovic and Federer are, and Murray isnt particularly close to Federer yet. So it is quite possible Federer and Nadal continue to be in the same half of many events, Djokovic and Murray likewise are.
     
    #18
  19. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,568
    Davis Cup?:confused::shock: Also, are you sure it's 7-2 in slams, OG and WTF? I make it 5-2 (3 slams, 2 WTF v 1 OG and 1 WTF).
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
    #19
  20. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    They played at the WTF in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2012 with Federer winning all but 2008. You are right I had one more slam meeting than actually happened so 6-2 Roger it is, and 8-3 Murray in the remaining matches.
     
    #20
  21. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,872
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    The Olympics? Murray is 1-0 v Federer at the Olympics! Don't you recall the straight sets beatdown he inflicted on him in the final? Plus they have never met in Davis Cup. How could they? The GB team have never qualified to meet Switzerland in Davis Cup! :)

    Agreed. That is quite possible. Although everything depends on Nadal returning quickly to form if and when he ever rejoins the tour!
     
    #21
  22. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,568
    I forgot about the 2010 match - good shout.
     
    #22
  23. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I am fully aware Murray beat Federer in the Olympics, but even with that victory for Murray factored in, Federer still has an enormous lead in their H2H in the most major meetings. I listed both the Olympics (knowing Murray won their only meeting) and Davis Cup (knowing they have not yet played in it) as those as those are amongst the sports biggest events which are all bigger than a Masters, and which after counting all of Federer still is way ahead as I said. I fail to see what point you are attempting to make.
     
    #23
  24. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,579
    Off clay? Don't think so.
     
    #24
  25. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,579
    She is going to have to get used to Fed around because even though I personally don't understand how he can possibly still be motivated at this stage, he seems to want to forge ahead. Meanwhile Nadal keeps taunting his silly fans on his FB page with his continuous pleas that he is "coming back soon", lol.
     
    #25
  26. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686


    Agreed. Vero reads too much VB. That and she hates Fed so much she makes herself look silly everytime she brings up his impending retirement,even though Nadal is 5 years younger,and already done himself. I really do hope Nadal retires asap just to shut her up.


    And you're also right about Nadal's FB posts. He should shut it until he can make up his mind,and stop with the bs. He's doing nothing but giving false hope,but he's too selfish to even realize it. That's what living in an insular bubble will do to you,and Nadal is living proof of it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
    #26
  27. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,872
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Fair enough. I just found it odd you would include Olympics and DC in your list when Federer has never beaten or played Murray in either of those.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
    #27
  28. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I am not trying to manipulate stats to make Federer look better. Those are the various events that in my view are above a Masters in importance. Most people on this forum consider the Slams and the WTF by far the most important (I feel the Olympics is more important than most on this forum, and most on this forum regard Davis Cup as basically a joke these days but IMO it also has more prestige than a regular Masters), so going by their standards it would be 6-1 Federer in the most important events. I like Murray moreso than Federer, but until Murray comes up with more huge wins over Federer like the Olympics, Federer owns him in the most important events. Career stats can be bypassed somewhat for more recent meetings, but even recent meetings alone show Federer beating Murray at both Wimbledon and the WTF this year. Masters are important too but they are middle of the pack in a top players schedule these days. Take this year for instance, on average the top players played 6 events more important than the Masters, and only 4 or 5 below them.
     
    #28
  29. President

    President Legend

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,972
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    With this post, it is really obvious that you are not an actual fan of Nadal. Stop pretending to be.
     
    #29
  30. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686


    Another one to add to the list. I don't worship anyone and will never stoop to being a **** of a certain player. I don't really care if that bugs you or not.
     
    #30
  31. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,488
    I hope so, I love it when Murray and Djoker play.
     
    #31
  32. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,228
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    I love it when paint dries.
     
    #32
  33. Warmaster

    Warmaster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,718
    Rather pointless discussion. The big 4 are the big 4, not two pairs.

    What goes for Federer and Nadal, goes for Djokovic and Murray as well. They don't have that many back to back wins either (Djokovic might have the most).

    It's just simple math. Presume they are all relatively equal. They all have a 50% chance to win against eachother. Meaning back to back wins are likely to happen 1 out of 4 times.

    This year, Federer is 1 out of 3. Looks pretty decent to me.

    In the end, most of them win their titles if they get 'lucky' (as in they only had to defeat one (or none) of the big 4 instead of 2 on their way to the title).
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
    #33
  34. underground

    underground Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,897
    Federer God Mode can still past Djokovic and Murray back-to-back. But yesterday God mode disappeared ever since Djokovic got that first break back....:cry:
     
    #34
  35. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,741
    Because your idol got scared and choked.
     
    #35
  36. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,808
    Federer and Nadal won 21 of the 23 contested Slams from the 2005 FO to the 2010 US Open. Are you seriously comparing Djokovic/Murray duo's "domination" to those two's? :lol:
     
    #36
  37. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686


    Unfortunately he is. Mike Shams posts a lot of stuff like this and starts a lot of threads like this as well. Too bad he continues to post without having even a remote clue about what's going on.
     
    #37
  38. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,488
    At least the matches are unpredictable, unlike Fed/Nadal (especially the Slam matches).
     
    #38
  39. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,872
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    It's okay. I understand your point. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
     
    #39
  40. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,304
    Fedal has already been on the steady slope towards obscurity anyway without Murray and Djokovic, what with Fed growing older and Nadal becoming more fragile. I wouldn't put much stock in a major Fed-Nadal hegemonic hold on the tour anymore, those days are decisively over. Not because of some joint rise in an opposing Murray-Djokovic hegemon, but because of a decline in both guys' games, and I guess a lot of it has to do with Novak owning the tour moreso than Murray.

    I'd wager Nadal has a greater chance of becoming a more consistent contender at slams in the coming years than Fed
     
    #40
  41. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    I'm not talking about reverse. Stick to the topic please. Also at Wimbledon, didn't Djokovic smash Tsonga who smashed Federer? Didn't Djokovic smash Nadal in the Wimbledon final much easier than Federer was able to?
     
    #41
  42. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,872
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    As a matter of interest, Murray has twice beaten Nadal and Federer back to back on hard court.
    Unofficially, at 2009 Abu Dhabi and then officially at 2010 Toronto.

    Unlike Djokovic, he hasn't done it in a Slam of course but the point is that it's not unheard of for him to do it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
    #42
  43. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,701
    It's just as hard to beat Nadal and Federer back to back as it is Murray and Djokovic. Any two of them in a row is hard. Someone has to do it though, and I don't think it's any more likely that Murray and Djokovic will than vice versa.
     
    #43
  44. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    ROTFL first off you dont set the rules for anyone on your own ridiculous topics and threads. If you are going to point out it is hard to see Federer or Nadal winning a major by beating Murray and Djokovic (frankly ridiculous and with minimal to no evidence of at this point, especialy as Federer has done it multiple times, and Nadal would have many times if Murray wasnt such a clay mug and Djokovic such a grass mug outside of 2011) then those of us who call your BS are perfectly free to point out very rarely have Djokovic or Murray been able to win a major beating Federer and Nadal back to back, in fact only once ever, and Djokovic had to save a match point to do it as well.

    If you think Djokovic would have an easy time beating Federer at Wimbledon on grass had they met last year or any year then you need to get your head out of the clouds. Tsonga is the most erratic player in the top 10 so is hardly a great barometer to use how a Federer vs Djokovic encounter would go. Also winning in 5 sets after being down 2 sets to 0 is far from smashing. I wont even get started on the matchup differences between Federer vs Nadal and Djokovic vs Nadal, not to mention the huge difference in Nadal's level of play on grass in 2007/2008 compared to 2011/2012. Federer of 2007 or even 2008 wouldnt lose a set to any version of Djokovic on grass for what it is worth, and I am about the furthest thing from a Federer fan on this forum.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2012
    #44
  45. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,120
    2006 Wimbledon Final Federer def Nadal 6-0 7-6 6-7 6-3

    looks like a smashing to me.
     
    #45
  46. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,808
    Best post from NadalAgassi ever?
     
    #46

Share This Page