Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by The Dark Knight, Jun 14, 2013.
Nadal or Roddick. One of the two.
TDK, funny isn't it to see you're so caught up in flaming up others that you don't remember what they or you yourself said!
As far as I'm concerned, many people right here in TW agreed that Rafa is the CGOAT. The number of his FO titles is an achievement that no one disputes. This is regardless that one is Fed's or Rafa's. Propping this thread is totally ridiculous! It's like asking, "does the sun rise to the east and go down to the west?"
Now, as I said before, let's go along your logic for a moment: if Fed thrives and won in a such weak era, he's a weak player at best, and those he beat, well, they are worse than weak. Agree?
Now if Rafa kicks Fed's butts, and all those subpar players, WHERE IS THE GLORY? Does beating up these weaklings make Rafa a SUPER, GOAT-worthy player? And even for a CGOAT discussion, beating them up elevates Rafa to a real CGOAT status? Where's the logic in that?
I always thought: beating up a weak dude just makes me AT BEST another mediocre dude. If I want to be the Man of the Campus, I would have sought out the biggest bully of them, no? Not some weakling like 95-year old Fed dude, the what-a-joke Djoker, the diaper-wearing Murray headcase... Agree?
Nadal is CGOAT. Just my opinion of course. Based on (1) results on clay, and (2) my assessment of his playing style and determination, and how devastating it is on clay.
Likewise I am of the opinion that Fed is GOAT, based on achievements as well as play style suitability for faster surfaces in particular.
Borg is probably my favorite player of all time, but sadly I must admit that Nadal has passed him in clay greatness and Fed in overall greatness.
He has created this thread to prove that some nutcases think Nadal isn't the CGOAT, and therefore he thinks that's a reason to justify his ridiculous posts about Fed being a big loser who only dominated in a weak era blablabla etc etc etc
When Fed beats competition it is against "washed up" players. When Nadal wins 8 FO in 9 years, it is circular logic.
Thanks for clarifying.
Both is circular. You just falsely assumed, that I meant only for Nadal.
I agree it matters not regarding his peers as to his goat ness on clay. It's not fair to say he isn't the best because he is. I would think a match between Nadal and Borg would have rivaled Isner/Mahut, yet would have been of the highest quality.
Actually no . There is no Argument . You all agree that Nadal is the clay goat. The end.
However we do not all agre that Federer is the goat .
Out of interest, in your mind, what would Federer have to achieve from now until retirement in order for you to personally see him as the greatest?
Things are strange here. Nadal is a surface goat based on his 8 RG titles. Also, weak era doesn't apply to him. Fine with me.
But at the same time for some Fed is not the goat in modern tennis based on his 17 titles and weak era applies to him.
If we can compare Nadal's clay achievements across eras, why not Federer's?
I really don't like double standards here.
I don't know. I'll need to check with Sentinel
Welcome back! You haven't posted for ages!
Cesc ... you old devil! How have you been, my friend?! Surely by now, you've stopped winding up the legion of Federer fanboys? Or should I perhaps say Djokovic fanboys after all the mass conversions? LOL!
Simple : Nadal made Federer his whipping boy .
It's like Alice in wonderland .....how can you say Federer is better than Nadal when he loses to him? It's insane!
Yeah he has 17 slams but the argument has always been it's been prior to Nadal coming along or when he was a boy .
It's really simple .
How this can go on thread after thread endlessly is just funny .
Federer may have the best record of all time but That is a lot different than saying Federer is the best .
I think the problem is the term "greatest"...... Federer has the greatest record of all time . But I don't think he is the best .
Beat Nadal in a slam . I agree with Pete Sampras.
That all Federer has to do .
Is Nadal the Clay GOAT? LOL, it's akin to asking if Mark Knopfler is a good guitarist!
Looks who's back, been to busy making out with our bollywood yesteryear stars?
LOL, Krag! I don't know if I should say too much about it lest our dear Nikdom gets his <you-know-what> in a knot!
How have things been, Sir Krag?
Welcome to the world of Nadal fans, where WTF is an exho, indoor is crap, H2H is more than major count and weeks at number 1 is not an achievement.
Hello, are you new to tennis? You just come to that conclusion that Rafa is the CGOAT. Need a thread to support or validate your belief?!!! Even the most ardent Fed's fan already concluded that... let's see... centuries ago... Is it too recent?
Hope you don't make a thread asking : does the sun go up in the east and down in the west? Hehe, we never know, you know!
dont act like all nadal fans are the same. only 1 of those items has relevance, and according to nadal, not much relevance. i go by what he says in regards to roger.
but that is as a while, not in regards to clay court goat, that is obviously nadal.
boy, imagine the explosion that a 32 year-old dude kicking out a 27 year old, in the peak of his prime player in a GS tourney? If that happens, the world of many will shatter! Be careful what you wish for! How are we going to explain that? Funny things can happen in sport, I believe. Would the excuse be: 1)it's grass, 2) it's HC, 3) parents divorce again, 4) knee pain flares up, 5) Rafa though he saw Rosol on the other side of the net (LOL), 6) (put here your best hypothetical excuse for Rafa).
Well he did.
I'm good thanks. I'm still the voice of reason on this forum.
clay court emperor
Nope. Weak era on clay. Bye.
Why do you keep talking about WTF? You put it on par with Wimbledon. It's crazy ???
No one cares !!!
Do you ever hear anyone talk about how many WTF 's Becker won ? Or how many did Borg win? Dude no one cares all anyone remembers is slam wins.
You can build up wtf all you want . It's a really nice tournament ......but to be in the upper echelon all that matters is slams .
Ageee that slams are what matters. Not so much WTF, masters tournmanents, or H2H either for that matter.
No YOU don't care out of fanboyism. And no one cares that you don't care. A WTF stands betweetster a masters1000 and a slam. So it is THE biggest achievement to win a wtf after a slam. People will say Olympics is more important, personally I couldn't care less about the Olympics, because I don't see Tennis as an Olympic sport. I'm a big football fan, but football(soccer) at the Olympics? Hell no!
You should really stop wasting your energy thread after thread to persuade people of your opinion, it's a joke. You are a litte barking poodle and no one gives a freak. You were already tryi g when I joined TT, but god knows how long you were trying already then. Don't you ever get tired? LOLLLLLL.
Surface is clay
Tio Tony coaching
Only attacks weaknesses like a coward
If this were 90s grass there would be no competition
Poly strings should be banned
Cakewalk / clown draw / He only had to play his pigeons
This is the end of tennis
(Hopefully) I'm leaving this forum kthxbye
Did I miss anything?
Also, this is a terrible / pointless thread.
Actually it is not pointless .
Throughout other threads Nadal was not given credit as the clay goat.
In fact there were arguments against it.
I was sick and tired of it so I thought I would post this thread forcing other to either come out of the closet and say that Nadal is not the goat.....or in the alternative prove once and for all that Nadal is in fact the greatest clay court player that has ever lived.
Now that we cleared the air we can move on and I won't have to hear anyone ever say differently.
Yes you missed one:
15) accidently poked himself in the butt during his routine
Who won the greatest match of all time again?
Keep trying but it is all pointless. If Nadal passes Federer slam record he will deserve the GOAT accolade, but until then your theories are unconvincing to the majority.
Mrs. O'Leary's cow.
What's the point of this thread? No one's denying Nadal being the clay GOAT. OP is just insecure.
Numbers wise yes. This is also one of the more weaker clay eras.
If Nadal played during Rosewall or Pete's time as far as clay competition goes he would be more hands down type GOAT
Would have loved to see Nadal go up against guys like Courier, Bruguera, Kuerten, Medvedev, Kafelnikov, Agassi etc. Back when Guys could actually PLAY on clay\
nadal has just had it way easy for a long time. Today its nothing but hardcourt ball bashers TRYING to play on clay. No one specializes on it except for Nadal and maybe Ferrer (But he can't beat top guys)
Djoker is very good on clay.. So is Fed. But these guys are just better on other surfaces. I dont look at either guy and think "great" clay court players who excel on clay. I look at them and think great hardcourt players trying to adapt to clay.
Its not Nadal's fault. There just isn't many (if any great dirt ballers around anymore). Hasn't been for 10 plus years
The last great one (besides Nadal) was Kuerten. And that seemed like 100 years ago
How do you think the past guys played differently on clay? What would it take a Djoker/Fed to be good on clay?
13 people are apparently on heavy drugs.
A more reasonable thread would be if Nadal on clay is greater than any player man or women on any surface ever. Even to that only those on heavy drugs would vote anything but yes however.
Peak Novak has now failed 3 years in a row to deny post prime Nadal on clay a French Open title. Post prime (on clay) Nadal is 2-0 vs peak Djokovic at the French, and 3-0 in French Open titles, yet if Novak was in his prime at the same time as Rafa rather than after he would have cut his French Open titles in more than half. Cute fantasy World you live in.
Post peak maybe, but not post prime, at least not up until 2012.
I am talking just clay. On clay Nadal's prime is 2005-2010 and his peak play was probably 2007, 2008, and 2010. 2012 is the only year that could be argued as even close to Nadal's prime level play on clay. 2011 and 2013 are nowhere near, and wouldnt even make his top 7 years of clay tennis. Yet even in those two years he is 1-0 vs peak Djokovic at the French and 2-0 in French titles, that is if we ignore 2012 on account of it being the only somewhat decent year of Nadal clay tennis for his standards; which is stupid anyway as 2012 is still way closer to Djokovic's career best on clay than it is Nadal's.
So in conclusion to even argue any version of Djokovic beating Nadal in a French final (or semi) from 2005-2010 is a cute fairytale with no hope of happening. Meanwhile if he had been in his prime earlier he would be weaker in 2011-2013, and didnt win a French any of those years even with what he was, so those are out too, so in all likelihood Djokovic in his prime earlier has the same # of French Opens he has now- 0, and Nadal the same # as he has now- 8 (or 9 if the 2009 draw changes and he doesnt play Soderling, so maybe he has more with a prime Djokovic around). Let alone 5 French Opens or something as the delusional poster I was quoting suggests, which would mean prime Djokovic winning every French over Nadal from prime Nadal in 2005-2010, considering we already know peak Djokovic couldnt win a French over post prime Nadal on clay from 2011-2013 as it was, hahahaha
Federer, final Wimby 2009: 14>15=GOAT
I think that most people who voted something else just wanted to **** off the OP.
You can't compare the results on clay with results on faster surfaces like Wimbledon and US open. On clay the points are longer so it is easier for the better player to win. On grass and hard courts the result of a point is more subject to randomness.
I didn't say Nadal deserves . All i said is that Federer cannot be the goat because there is a guy who owns him right now.
Oh who was that against ? Roddick again ? Ho hum.
4 roddicks his clone philopusis and bagdatis is the difference between Nadal and fed . Big woop dee doo dah.
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