Is Nadals topspin forehand the greatest Topspin forehand ever?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by King of Aces, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. King of Aces

    King of Aces Banned

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    Is Nadals topspin forehand the greatest Topspin forehand ever? It looks like a trick shot....I do not think it can even be taught.
     
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  2. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

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    It probably is.

    What is so formidable about the shot is the fact that it has so much topspin yet is hit with such pace as well, especially when Nadal guns it.

    I think if you quantify this question, though, Bruguera has been able to get more RPMs on the forehand than Nadal. That said, Bruguera never was as dominant as Nadal is with their respective forehands.
     
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  3. breadstick

    breadstick Rookie

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    Yes, but pro's have never been able to get as much spin as they can today.
     
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  4. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

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    Except Bruguera!

    Gosh imagine Bruguera with an APDC & poly strings...ick. Possibly the only thing that would rival Nadal on clay (but movement of Nadal would probably win out at the end).
     
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  5. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Pancho Segura thinks it's the best lefty forehand ever. I don't know what he thinks overall.
     
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  6. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    It certainly has the most "spin" ever but I dont know if its the "greatest" ever.
     
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  7. King of Aces

    King of Aces Banned

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    Well I said the greatest "Top SPIN" ./...emphasis on the word SPIN.

    I would says Agassi has the greatest flat shot in the history of tennis.
     
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  8. King of Aces

    King of Aces Banned

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    oooooops

    ....
     
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  9. RalphNYC

    RalphNYC Semi-Pro

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    Let's see how many titles he wins with it. I think the answer will be YES
     
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  10. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, it is not.
     
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  11. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Actually it occurs to me that Segura himself may have a better forehand than Nadal's even though he said Nadal had the best lefty forehand ever. Segura is a righty. He may think that he (Segura) has a better forehand. lol.

    Many do think that Segura's forehand was the best ever.
     
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  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It looks like a trick shot because of a couple of reasons - his long and fast swing makes it look like the ball will go out, but it lands in - and he can go dtl or crosscourt with a similar motion.

    He is helped by his racquet. No one can hit topspin like this with a smaller head.
     
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  13. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    One of the best forehands ever. When Fed was killing everybody, his forehand was about the best I'd ever seen. He could rip more winners our of nowhere than just about anybody I've ever seen.
     
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  14. jelle v

    jelle v Hall of Fame

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    Bruguera didn't play the attacking game Nadal does.. In my opinion, Bruguera's defensive game was just as good as Nadal's and I actually have the opinion that Bruguera's passing shots were better.. slightly though..
     
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  15. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    The emphasis was on topspin. Fed has a regular forehand.
     
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  16. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Not only is it heavy and spinny, but he has the ability to flatten it out slightly, as well as stick with his loopier arc.

    He hits it so incredibly high over the net (the majority of the time) that he has a huge margin for error, which helps his consistency and makes it very difficult for opponents to do anything against it.
     
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  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Uhmmmmmm, he was exhausted.
     
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  18. jelle v

    jelle v Hall of Fame

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    I wonder about Berasategui though.. who knows what forehand he would have had with a Babolat (A)PD(C)..
     
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  19. David_Is_Right

    David_Is_Right Semi-Pro

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    Sorry to derail the thread, but is this a general rule of thumb please, Sureshs? I'm fairly new to racquet selection by means other than colour!
     
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  20. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is pretty certain that the larger head size of Nadal's racquet, along with the not-very-heavy range of weight, allows him to achieve high swing speed and good ball contact. Some of his shots go off the middle, while others leave from the lower end of the racquet (held sideways) and deceive the opponent - he uses the whole racquet face. The Babolat racquet + poly strings makes his game possible. Players with traditional small-headed and heavier frames lose to him on a regular basis, even when they employ the same strings technology.
     
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  21. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    i was under the impression he doesnt use new string technology. that he uses 15g whatever it is that he grew up with.
     
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  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He uses poly (Duralast) isn't it? Practically everyone uses poly these days.
     
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  23. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    im aware of poly. you cant say he gets the spin he does because of racket or strings. if that was the case everyone would use the same racket.
     
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  24. Andreev also has a sick topspin forehand but it isn't as consistent as Nadal's.
     
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  25. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

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    Nadal's attacking game?
     
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  26. vndesu

    vndesu Hall of Fame

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    i think nadal has alot of his spin, mostly due to his swing, weight of racqet and the strings. iono if its the greatest, but i will say it has alot of spin
     
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  27. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    maybe he meant "aggressive baseline"
    nadal may not be attacking nets, but he sure has gotten aggressive from the backcourt, i'll admit that.
     
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  28. rosenstar

    rosenstar Professional

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    Agreed. People need to credit Nadal, if you analyze his technique, it's not surprising that he hits the ball so well. The extreme spin and pace is a result of his powerful legs and hip turn. It's not a magical racket, but it does allow him to take advantage of his athleticism and strength.
     
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  29. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

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    You have to remember that Nadal is a lefty. The fact that his FH is so good PLUS that he is a lefty is what makes him so dominant. Most players, who are righty, are not used to having to deal with a high-bouncing, "spinny", and paced shot on their BH side very often. Nadal throws everyone out of their comfort zone because of this. You saw how much trouble Fernando Verdasco gave Nadal at the AO this year? Verdasco is a lefty too, so he was able to meet Nadal's lefty FH with his own lefty FH, effectively neutralizing it. Don't get me wrong, I think Nadal is a great player and deserving of all of his accolades, but the fact that he is a lefty is a HUGE advantage. Had he played righty, he would not be #1. Fed would be. And Fed would not have lost his confidence and would probably be up to GS #16 or so by now.

    This is exactly why in baseball it is preferable to pitch lefty to a right-handed hitter, bc it puts the hitter at a natural disadvantage. God bless Nadal (or his uncle Toni, for that matter) for having been naturally righty but to have trained to be able to play lefty. Greatest training decision by anyone in the history of tennis. But mark my words, if Nadal did not play lefty, he would not be #1.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
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  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Many players use the Babolats and poly strings. It is of course not due only to these, it is the hand holding the racquet and the body attached to it.
     
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  31. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

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    here is what i could dig up on the google search
    Average RPMS on forehand


    Bruguera 3330
    Nadal 3200
    Muster 2880
    Rios 2640
    Federer 2500
    Sampras 1840
    Agassi 1710


    So yes he generates alot of topspin allowing for more room for error on his forehand shot


    for reference
    top forehand speed for top pros are

    Monfils 118.1
    Gonzalez 112
    Blake 109
    P Gonzalez 108
    federer 102


    ***EDIT*** found oen site quoting Nadals fastest forehand at 96mph, which with his spin is a nasty nasty shot to retrieve
    cannot find anywhere nadals was measured but ill keep checking
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
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  32. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

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    actually its the reverse forehand he does that causes so much spin
     
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  33. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Good point. I read somewhere that 40% of his FHs are reverse.
     
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  34. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    Fed hits with topspin. At this point, saying topspin forehand is kind of redundant on the men's tour. Everybody hits with topspin, when they say "flat forehand" they mean it in relative terms.
     
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  35. VivalaVida

    VivalaVida Banned

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    Novak slammed a 116 mph against tsonga earlier this year.
     
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  36. jelle v

    jelle v Hall of Fame

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    That's exactly what I meant :)
     
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  37. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

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    those numbers were just a generalized summary of the facts i could find in 5 mins of searching. i have no doubts novak hit one 116, but it didnt show up when i searched under forehand fastest mph on google.

    if you can find it, feel free to list a link :)
     
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  38. egn

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    Brugera might come close thats about it that comes to my find.
     
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  39. !Tym

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    It's funny you say that, because it once remarked by I think McEnroe, even leftys don't like playing lefty's. Statisitcally there just is a lot of lefty tennis players in this world, so when you play one it always feel a little weird. Lefty's are just as not used to playing against lefty's as anyone else since they're not a whole lot of them.

    It's also funny, because when you look through tennis history, the ammount of lefty's in that last exceeds the "normal" ratio of lefty's to righty's in this world by far. I don't think it's just a coincidence.

    Personally, I find it odd when I encounter a lefty too. Everything just feels "weird" to me. It's still a groundstroke sure, but it just feels slightly unsettling when it shouldn't.
     
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  40. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

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    Nadal has hit over 100 mph before. I don't remember the exact speed. Can someone confirm it?
     
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  41. !Tym

    !Tym Hall of Fame

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    Btw, regarding old vs. new generation polys, the difference isn't spin; it's that the newer ones are engineered to keep their tension much better, are more comfortable, have better feel (to most, not all since some still prefer the rawer, crisper feel of first gen polys), and more power. The main thing though from a performance aspect though is tension maintenance. The first gen polys lose tension like a stuck pig. Ok for Nadal who has the money and resources to restring on a whim. But to the average dude? Today's modern co-polys are a better choice.
     
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  42. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

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    not saying your not telling the truth but nadal doesnt hit as hard as the flat hitters and his spin makes up the difference without doubt. i think that 96 might well be very accurate.


    if nadal hit 110+ and with his spin he would knock racquets outta pros hands

    /shiver

    usually more spin = less speed

    for example nadals serve is an average of 116mph,, very low by todays standards but the spin.. that spin is whats brutal to reply
     
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  43. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    stop giving me goosebumps. 110 killer topsin forehands. Thats it nobody would want to play the guy.
     
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  44. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

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    How can you say that? You don't know what kind of serve he would have had if he played righty. Let him keep the same FH and same BH but his FH is now his BH and vice-versa. Also give him a better serve because he is a natural righty. DOn't you think the better serve could have made up for him not being lefty?
     
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  45. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
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  46. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    I don't think he would have the same backhand. His backhand is only as strong as it is because he switched hands..it is kind of like a forehand to him.
     
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  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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  48. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

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    Yes, this is 100% true BUT you are assuming everyone gives the same energy to the ball. Some of the total energy that you impart on the ball is converted to rotational energy and that's why the ball has less pace. Nadal has one of the fastest swing speed ever, if not the fastest, so I don't see why he can't hit over 100mph while still hitting with good topspin.
     
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  49. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

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    He would need you to do it for him.
     
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  50. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

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    lemme go pull up swing speed numbers.. i can tell you its monfil, roddick as top 2 today because i found those numbers when searching the top mph. nadal doesnt use speed on the ball to make his points. gimme a bit to get the motivation to dig up the results.. or you COULD actually post them yourself instead of posting opinions.

    ****EDIT****
    fastest backhand racquet head speed, (safin name keps coming up, nadal mentioned several times also)
    fastest forehand racquet head speed, (monfils, blake, verdasco all listed in articles so far)
    fastest racquet head speed on serve roddick (Karlovicalso named a couple times)

    so far cannot find anyone listing exact numbers tho

    still hunting for the exact numbers, all i can find are articles by sportswriters atm. ill get them though (Nevermind) to much research for one day for my small brain
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
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