Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by chandu612, Nov 12, 2013.
how about now?
how about no?
Very much like that.
Shockingly I have to say Federer was better .
An over the hill Federer beat Peak Joker at the FO amd at Wimbledon.
So at least on grass and clay Federer has to be better .
^ And now on the hard courts of Dubai.
Baby Djoker beat Fed in Australia.
Or did that one not count because of the mono?
You dont go from an unstoppable force to losing 3 GS finals back to back to back without something being wrong. Not saying he was 70% but even 95% isn't enough to win against the best of the best.
Again, if you haven't had mono don't talk.
A match for the ages
Novak Djokovic Vs Roger Federer ATP Dubai Open 2014 Semi-Final Full Match
^ Also on ESPN3
he didn't lose 3 in a row. he destroyed an in form murray in us 08. and its not like nadal wasnt a knee slip away from winning wimby 07. he only just lost the wimby and aussie finals. no way can somebody playing bad DESTROY roddick and del potro in straight sets (aussie 09) and not drop a set till the finals (wimby 08) and get to 4 gs finals in a row be playing badly.
Whew, a breath of fresh air.
He didnt lose 3 GS finals in a row as you claim. As for his slam losses in 2008:
French Open- he had no prayer of ever winning that even if he played his best clay match ever. Nadal was GOATing here, and Federer has never beaten Nadal at RG so best ever Nadal on clay probably, forget it.
Wimbledon- he could have easily lost the 2007 Wimbledon final to Nadal so this result was no surprise, especialy after the shellacking (which would have happened anyway) at RG which probably hurt his confidence.
Australian Open- the only one that was a minor surprise but seeing how Djokovic was pushing him hard and already had a win over him on hard courts in late 2007, it wasnt that surprising the fast improving Djokovic would get a big win over one of Federer or Nadal in a slam soon and it came here. On the surface Djokovic might end up as the GOAT on.
I totally agree with your post, but the bolded part is a big might IMO, especially since his dominance in Australia ended this year. He's still relatively young yes, but he needs at least 4 more HC slams and 3 more YEC to tie Federer in both categories. As a bit of an aside, the HC MS count is 15-12 to Federer. I would probably back Djokovic to pass Federer here, but I'm not sure I'd bet any money on him surpassing Federer's overall HC achievements.
Just my 2 cents. It's not meant to downgrade Djokovic. I just felt compelled to type something, and you gave me a nice opportunity.
Federer was clearly hindered at AO 08....and the lack of training due to mono probably affected him to a lesser extent till the end of the year.
Baring plexicushion AO(with the heavier balls) and slow HC like Miami/Toronto/IW specially Miami(Is that even a HC? :lol, I take peak Fed over Nole everywhere.
Even at the AO, Djokovic at Rome, Miami, Canada Masters, Shanghai. Everywhere else Federer. I think if they were the same age Federer would have a similar head with Djokovic as Nadal does. Including at the slams, I think it would be quite lopsided in favor of Federer.
Are you sure?
They have split their meetings in canada. it is not a given djokovic takes it
In general Djokovic is better in Rome IMO. Federer best match there was better but overall Djokovic is a bit stronger IMO. That match from Federer came out of nowhere really, his form going into that match was anything but spectacular. I'd take Federer Rome final 2006 over Djokovic 2011, but in the semi's or earlier Djokovic would be beat him.
Djokovic has more titles there doesn't he 3-2? Thats the tiebreaker IMO.
That may be. But he also had 1 more title than Nadal last year didn't he? And we all know what happened
I am talking about only the Australian Open surface, not hard courts in general. I should have made that more clear I guess.
Yes but my point is none of the slam losses were big upsets, and they all might have happened even regardless. RG is not even worth discussing. Wimbledon as mentioned Nadal was very close and could have won in 07 and coming off a total beating of Federer in the RG final (even 100% Federer wins 10 games max at best) he would be high on confidence. The Australian Open, well we know now what a great player Djokovic is there and was already challenging Federer on hard courts by late 2007
I prefer to look at performance against the field in general. If Federer beats Djokovic in Toronto this year but doesn't lift the title Djokovic will still be a better player in Canada than Federer. Or is Nadal a better player than Federer in Miami and the AO etc...
If Federer can still beat Djokovic while he's way past his prime, obviously peak Federer would win.
I find this debate REALLY ridiculous. A 32 years old Federer with no confidece at all was able to take a set from prime Djokovic last year in 2 matches
Now, the same old Roger, with a bit of confidence back, is able to BEAT a prime Djokovic.
What the hell are we talking about ? This is pointless, honestly.
Oh ok, then I agree with everything.
yes, fed's rome 06 final perf. was better than anything djokovic has produced there, including the 11 rome final , which was mighty impressive.
Djokovic is better in general as well @ Rome. But just FTR, djokovic wasn't all that flash in the semi vs murray in 11 just like federer wasn't in the semi vs nalby ( and nalby is a much better CCer than murray )
How about now?
No. Peak Djokovic is a worse matchup for Nadal, but that's it.
Also: Peak Nadal is better than Peak Djokovic and Peak Federer combined.
Wassup, dawg? Wassup?
I don't believe in match ups. Better player won today. If Rafa played better he will easily win, which we will see in the future.
My point is that Peak Djokovic winning more easily against Nadal than PeaknFederer doesn't mean Peak Djokovic is superior, because you have to consider the matchup.
In these playing conditions, Djokovic's best game has no weaknesses. There's no game plan. Just hope he's not having a good day. Federer can be attacked and everybody knows how. Nadal can be attacked -- Djokovic does it. But Djokovic has not dominated his contemporaries like Federer dominated his -- in different conditions and whatnot. So it's hard to say. But I still come back to the fact that Djokovic's game is bulletproof, and that's not true of any other player I've watched.
You don't believe in match-ups? How then do you resolve the situation (and there has been enough examples of this over the years to be far from theoretical) where Player A has a superior H2H to Player B. Player B has a superior H2H over player C. Player C has a superior H2H over Player A? How out of Player A, B and C, who is the better player?
Peak djokovic loses to past-prime Fed..so logically, no.
But was peak Federer a better matchup for Nadal than peak Djokovic? Absolutely.
So you believe that Rafa is a much better player than Federer. After all, 9-2 in slams is a pretty pathetic record against your main rival. :lol:
Gotta go with Fed. Tough to beat making, what was it, 10 slam finals in a row?
I'd go with Fed at Wimby and USO. Djokovic at AO. FO is a toss up. Overall, slight edge to Fed.
Considering peak Djokovic just lost to past his prime fed a few weeks ago I'd say peek Federer is way better.
What are the chances of Federer beating Djokovic nowadays? Very low I'd say.
Fed beat djoko in Dubai 2014.
Good result for old federer.
The way of Federer's moving and the way of djokovic's moving on the court are different.
I'd say federer moves fast more like naturally. And djokovic moves fast with best flexibility in ATP.
This is hard to answer. Because 2006 version of federer never played 2011 version of djokovic.
I agree, I mean...nine defeats in span of two years (2005-2006) with 173 wins, that's absolutely insane, no matter how you slice it.
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