Is Phillip Kohlschreiber using only 1 side of the racquet

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by jrs, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Hi

    Need experts here to settle an argument - I believe Phillip K. is using one side of the racquet to hit both forehand and backhand. Others tell me I am wrong. I believe there are others who do the same thing - especially with western forehand grip.

    (NOTE: he switches sides on the first backhand to forehand - it's forehand to backhand - I am trying to verify)

    I found this video of PK - after he hits the forehand - I believe he is hitting the backhand with the same side - but staring at the video is making me nuts!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noToy0CYLBQ

    Let me know if I am seeing things or am I right
    Thanks
    JRS
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
    #1
  2. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    the first backhand and the forehand are hit on different sides of the racquet.

    he twirls his racquet sometimes in between shots to i doubt that he hits with the same side every time.
     
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  3. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    After the forehand

    Thanks for the response - but after he hits the first forehand - the next backhand is he still using the same side?

    I also thought Bjorn Borg used to hit both backhand and forehand on the same side.
     
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  4. RogerRacket111

    RogerRacket111 Semi-Pro

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    I see him hitting both sides. Whats the advantage of hitting the same side? I would think its a disadvantage you only use one half of your string effectively in terms of wear and tear. Most pros rotate.
     
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  5. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Look again please

    Yes, he uses both sides on the first backhand to forehand.

    But after this he hits forehand - then next backhand - it's the same side he hit the forehand with - I stepped through the video on full screen and convinced - this is what happened.

    I think they flip and turn the racquet a lot during a match - so I am sure both sides are being used - I am just trying to verify he is hitting one side of the racquet on forehand and backhand (which is very different from what I am used to). It mostly a function of the extreme forehand grip. It's just freaky! I didn't believe it at first - but there it is!
     
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  6. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Alberto Berasategui (the 1994 French Open runner-up and 1998 Australian Open quarter finalist) had an extreme western grip (the Hawaiian grip), and he hit his forehands and backhands with the same side of the racquet.
     
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  7. THESEXPISTOL

    THESEXPISTOL Hall of Fame

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    No! At least on first two strokes he used different sides...
     
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  8. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0l97WLuF0M

    Yes, he does on majority of the shots.
     
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  9. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    It's forehand - backhand transition one side

    Yes, the backhand - forehand he switches sides
    Next forehand - backhand he is using the same side! I am convinced!
     
    #9
  10. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    there are some interesting ideas i've read regarding this. it's possible to hit with the same side of the racquet, not only when forehand/ backhand grips are the same, but it's possible even when a player twirls a racquet.




    a while ago, i read that there's a slight difference in the way the racquet bevels feel in the hand on different sides because of the way the grip is started.

    it's not necessarily the topic at hand, since federer doesn't hit with same grip or same side of the bed for forehands as backhands—but consider federer's forehand, how much he twirls the racquet and how is asymmetrical racquet is always positioned during forehands. it doesn't justify whether or not he uses the same grip on the backhand, but it says it's possible to tell the difference what side a player is hitting in a habitual manner with even if they twirl their racquet as much as fededer. in every forehand picture i saw on google images from 2012, the predominantly whiter edge of the racquet is on the bottom.

    conclusion is that if kohlschriber does indeed hit with the same side of the bed, he could arguably tell the difference of which side he hits from usually if he wants.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
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  11. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    I am confused - are you just looking to post pictures of Federer - I believe they have another thread just for that. I would appreciate it - if we could stick to the video - I posted.
     
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  12. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

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    what is looked like to me:
    at 0:26 the racquet face that contacted the ball on the forehand shot is now facing the camera (the viewer) after that the other face is used to contact the ball on a bh.

    So, no
     
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  13. byealmeens

    byealmeens Semi-Pro

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    He is addressing your video by commenting on twirling, and player preference in terms of grips. What he’s saying is players tend to hit the same “face” on a certain stroke based more on how the grip feels rather than using the same face. This would seem to indicate that most players would use opposing faces if the grip feels better in a certain position. Federer is merely being used as an example.
     
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  14. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    This. I see a lot of the pros doing it - Feds and Nads to start with.
     
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  15. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    it is possible, but in the clip in the OP Philip actually hits with different sides when he goes from he first backhand to the first forehand. maybe it's a one off thing, maybe not.

    i suppose it's easier for federer with the asymmetrically coloured stick and a custom grip to always be holding it in a certain way when he hits, even after twirling. When I have a somewhat worn grip i tend to hold my stick in a consistent manner as well, but not when i switch to my spare stick.
     
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  16. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

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    It has been said by the commentators several times that Kohlschreiber returns serve with the same side of the racquet. His grip on forehand and backhand is nearly the same. I do a very similar thing. In that video though he switches sides. A semi-western/western forehand grip is very similar to an extreme backhand grip and doesn't need much, if any, changing.

    Those Federer photos illustrate that he probably has a preferred method of gripping the racquet. The way the overgrip layers over itself creates ridges. If he has his pointer finger laying over one of the ridges and he were to switch sides randomly his grip on the racquet would move slightly up or down with the ridges. I hit nearly all my forehands on one side of the racquet because the ridge is exactly where I want it. If I switch to the other side my grip is slightly too far up or slightly too far down. Even twirling the racquet you automatically stop and get it on the correct side.
     
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  17. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    on 0:20-0:40, yes, it's the same side.

    From the forehand, he moves back into conti ready position by rolling his knuckles forward, rather than back. Then from conti, he rolls the knuckles back to eastern for the bh.
     
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  18. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Thanks for confirming what I saw


    BevelDevil - thanks for the confirmation - funny many people aren't able to see it.

    I am having an argument with couple of friends - they can't see it!

    PaulLorenzo - my apologies - didn't follow the Federer forehand pictures.
     
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  19. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

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    It's because no one read your whole post and just watched the first 2 shots.
     
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  20. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    You may be right

    But locals I'm arguing with can't see it - I think people see what they believe - they don't see themselves hitting forehand and backhand on the same side - and they can't see it when some one else is doing it.

    Very strange!
     
    #20
  21. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Dude, I've watched the entire video and this is all I, or anyone, can make from it: After he hits his first backhand, he hits his forehand with the different side. Then he does in fact hit his next backhand with the same side (because of that twirl at the end of his forehand backswing). I don't know if this is usual for him or something that just happened this one time. But if he always plays exactly like how he plays in the video then this is the explanation:
    After every forehand he twists his racquet. Normally you play your backhand with a different side than your forehand. So does Kohlschreiber. He just turns his blade around at the end of his FH swing. So obviously, every backhand following his forehand will be played with the same side. No he doesn't only use one side of his racquet or whatever it is you're implying.
     
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  22. ICanBeSerious

    ICanBeSerious Rookie

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    Kohls himself has admitted in one of his interviews that in the past he used the same side of the racquet, but now he tries not to do it anymore.
     
    #22
  23. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    my friend back home hits with the same side of string bed face, he doesn't fully switch bevels, just a slight angle adjustment. semi western forehand with a semi western backhand. i used to be the same way. not sure if the Kohly vid illustrates it though. i'm seeing that he hits the FH from the other face. i think it's still possible to hit with the same side of the string bed even if the racquet is twirled, which is what the fed example was about. and what you're vid illustrated initially.

    i probably should have posted smaller pictures, but who doesn't need more federer in their lives?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
    #23
  24. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Thanks everyone - I guess some people didn't understand my question - it wasn't if he always played with one side of the racquet - it was if he was hitting his forehand and backhand with the same side of the racquet.

    The video does demonstrates him doing both. My thing was I wasn't 100% sure in the forhand to backhand - if he was using the same side especially with my idiot friend telling me I was seeing things.

    Thanks for all you help
     
    #24
  25. SandV

    SandV New User

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    He definitely uses the same side returning serve. Cahill analyzed a slo-mo video of his return at the Oz last year.
     
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  26. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    On the women's side, Carla Navarro uses the same side. There are probably more.
     
    #26
  27. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    When I hit a one-hander, I hit the ball with the same side of the racket nearly every time. It was a combination of two factors that have been discussed already. First, the layering of the grip is a huge factor for me. I have my hand in the same position for every forehand, without fail, and, secondly, my semi-western grip doesn't need too much change to become my one-handed grip.

    Now that I hit a two-hander, I switch sides, but my forehand hits the same side probably 90% percent of the time.
     
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