Is Sampras the GOAT (yes/no)?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Bud, May 6, 2009.

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Is Sampras the GOAT?

Poll closed Aug 4, 2009.
  1. Yes

    41.7%
  2. No

    58.3%
  1. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Simple poll... yes or no

    No other explanation/evidence/justification required (although welcome) :wink:
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
    #1
  2. rubberduckies

    rubberduckies Professional

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    He is GOAT by the metric he created himself.

    If Borg had been operating under the same Tour mindset, there isn't a chance in hell he doesn't get more than 14.
     
    #2
  3. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Since GOAT means greatest of all time, and not most achieved of all time, I'm saying YES.
     
    #3
  4. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^trouble maker.
     
    #4
  5. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    No kidding? Laver, Tilden, Connors, etc disregarded??
     
    #5
  6. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    Oh, I voted no. Would have voted h*** no, if that were given as a choice.
     
    #6
  7. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    In my biased opinion he is. :)

    Realistically? There is no GOAT in tennis. Too difficult to compare the eras and the best of each era objectively. Tennis is one sport that I just dont think here is a GOAT for to be honest.


    Of course maybe none of the sports. You can argue for and against many players. You can argue MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem in NBA. All have legit cases.


    At the end of the day its just opinions. Numbers and stats arent the be all end all in sports.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
    #7
  8. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    No kidding. In my opinion, the three greatest players of all time are between Borg, Sampras and Federer.

    Achievements cannot be compared between eras, but I think those three were the crème de la crème regarding tennis abilities.
     
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  9. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    People have to remember though.. If Laver got to play the pro tour during his prime years, he would have had 20 slams or more.

    Are slams the only measuring stick? I dunno. Slam counts never really became important until Pete started chasing Emerson
     
    #9
  10. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Btw.. I can tell this thread is going to be quite a few pages. There will be a rumble. I just get that feeling
     
    #10
  11. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Is it really necessary to have these same style threads every week...seriously it is like have any answers changed since the last is this player goat thread. Is there some rule thread somewhere that we must have is this player goat thread every single time?
     
    #11
  12. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    No, but neither is Federer.
     
    #12
  13. S H O W S T O P P E R !

    S H O W S T O P P E R ! Hall of Fame

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    Oh god, another goat thread. I'll get outta here before the Nadaltards, Samprastards, *******s and the likes get here.
     
    #13
  14. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    =[ why are there no lavertards..I think I am going to become one. =]
     
    #14
  15. Leublu tennis

    Leublu tennis Legend

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    Thats for sure. And, quite frankly, I am not overly optimistic that Nadal will make it either.
     
    #15
  16. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Nadal will have a case most likely if he can stay healthy and keep on the winning ways and continue his dominance. But who knows if he can. Just 2-3 years ago Fed was already being considered the hands down GOAT, now look. Alot can happen in the span of a few years. Nadal needs quite a few more years on top to prove his worthiness as GOAT.
     
    #16
  17. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Re: Nadal, he spent so long at number 2, I feel it took him a little too long to overcome Federer. He's got a lot more miles behind him than most 22-year-olds. He'll have to stay at the top of the game another 4 or 5 years at least to be in GOAT contention. And that's no easy feat. But who knows? Maybe he'll do it.
     
    #17
  18. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

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    No, he couldn't win the French so he can't be the GOAT.
     
    #18
  19. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    4-5 more years? Doubtful.. Extremely doubtful. Nadal has a lot of miles on those legs and alot wear and tear. Not good for any sense of longevity. The older you get especially Nadal, the more he will be feeling those matches the next morning when he rolls out of bed. If Nadal is even around in 5 years I will be surprised. I give Nadal 2-3 years at the very most to where he MAYBE can win more slams. Once the wheels go on Nadal, hes finished though. He relies on his movement too much and lacks weapons which would help him win easy, free points.

    Unless nadal somehow devlops a Roddick, Karlovic, or Sampras serve in the next year
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
    #19
  20. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Exactly why Laver is the GOAT...he won 7 unique majors..lol I am liking this Lavertard thing.

    Australian Open
    French Open
    Wimbledon
    US Open
    Wembley (London Indoor)
    U.S Pro
    French Pro

    who else can claim 7 majors on 3 different surfaces..grass, clay, and indoor wood..nobody. Hence Laver being GOAT.

    Lol I can sense this is going to be fun..
     
    #20
  21. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    No thats "Most achieved" not GREATEST. LOL

    Most achieved is presented and proved by numerics. Greatest is OPINION. :)
     
    #21
  22. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Lol... next poll I'll add a H*** No! option. That's 'Heck' to the moderators :wink:
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
    #22
  23. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    OH NO YOU DIDNT! Lol.

    If Laver was around today he would be making fools of everyone with their lame baseliner styles and destroyed on the wicked fast grass of the 90s...Sampras and Federer would be crying and forget what Nadal would be doing.

    What I fear even more now is people not recognizing my sarcasm and I accidentally start a flame war. However Laver is still GOAT in my eyes under my honest opinion. Laver dominated his era, was number 1 for a long period of time, won tons and tons of titles and when he was on (see 1969) did not let anyone get in his way. Besides winning a calendar year slam is hard enough amateur or pro but doing it twice...that's ridiculous.
     
    #23
  24. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I hear ya... was just measuring the current feeling of Sampras and GOAT status.
     
    #24
  25. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Obviously Pete is not going to get any GOAT love around these parts. :). This is a Laver lovefest around here.

    Apparently most achieved equates to the GOAT title. I dunno if thats true or not. But thats everyone's perogative. I dont have to agree with it though
     
    #25
  26. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Well obviously if Pete had gotten his act together and won that damn calendar slam.... =] lol lol
     
    #26
  27. theduh

    theduh Semi-Pro

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    If only time machines are invented then we could get all of the greatest of each eras whilst they are on their prime and bunch them all together on a single tournament to settle once and for all who's GOAT. That would be fun.
     
    #27
  28. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Thats the only way to really prove it my man. The only way. Everything else is subjective. Besides the numbers. But thats not fair to judge the GOAT based on pure number alone when comparing eras. WInning the numbers race means you were the most achieved of all time. Does it really mean you are the "greatest?" Not necessarily. The greatest is a subjecive term. . The only way to prove the greatest is to stick the greatest in the same era and have them duke it out
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
    #28
  29. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    yea but cue the whiny technology freak...and then this time machine theory goes out the window was now every player needs some 1 year prep time with the technology of the era they are going to...
     
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  30. Ljubicic for number1

    Ljubicic for number1 Hall of Fame

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    Lance Armstrong is the GOAT of sport.

    Pete is GOAT of tennis.
     
    #30
  31. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    I think anyone who wins the Grand Slam twice deserves a lovefest. Would you bebrudge Nadal or Federer one if they ever pulled it off.
     
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  32. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Federer is already better than Sampras. Only 1GS less but has more french open finals to show. So the question of Sampras as a GOAT doesnt even come into play.

    Now where does Federer himself rank among the GOAT argument...hmmm a diff argument outside context of this poll.

    Bottom line : Sampras is no longer a GOAT candidate.
     
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  33. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Federer is NOT better than Sampras at this point in time. I am a bigger Federer fan than a Sampras fan but this simply is not true. Fewer slams, yes only one fewer but still fewer at the moment, pitiful record vs his main rival, 2 years short of matching Pete's year end #1 record, inferior record at Wimbledon, like Pete failed to win the French, questionable longevity especialy compared to Sampras if he doesnt turn his current momentum around.
     
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  34. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    This will be a major factor with Nadal's longevity. If he could develop his serve into a weapon... he'd be almost unbeatable on any surface. It will allow him to end points much more quickly.
     
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  35. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Nadal will never have a serve of Sampras or Karlovic level. If he could get his serve to the Federer level he would be unbeatable though.
     
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  36. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I agree.

    Federer is almost like Pete's Mini-Me... their game is very similar and their achievements are also very similar at this point in time. Federer is also racing against the clock for GS titles.
     
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  37. clayman2000

    clayman2000 Hall of Fame

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    Finally someone understands that most GS wins isnt everything.

    Anyways, if the GOAT meant the person who played the best tennis in his prime, we could mention Nalbandian, Safin, Tsonga to the list. However the GOAT is the player who has had the best average of:
    length, achievments, greatness, fighting ability

    While Sampras is decent in all categories, he does not have everyhitng done
    For example, By age 30 he had declined a lot. Federer will be 30 in 1.5 years, and its likely that hell still be top 5, contending for GS's. Sampras never won the FO, he was lucky that his time the best were mainly baseliners
     
    #37
  38. Toxicmilk

    Toxicmilk Professional

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    Tiger Woods. Woot woot.
     
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  39. Initial_d

    Initial_d New User

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    Cause any Lavertards is old enough to understand that this debate is a road leading to nowhere :D
     
    #39
  40. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Sorry dude. Pitiful record against a player or two doesnt diminish other great acheivements. I will apply the same logic and say Sampras couldnt win againt Federer at Wimbledon clearly showing that he is an inferior player-- though i wouldnt.

    Sampras didnt even come close to winning a french open..forget winning he didnt even come close to contesting for french title.

    Federer on the other hand, came as close as two sets to winning a calendar Grandslam.

    Like it or not, Federer has been more dominant and more consistent.

    Guess what once he wins another slam , Game completely over for Sampras. Federer wins by most counts.

    I really want Federer to win one more slam just to shut this argument by people who think Sampras is tennis god. He is a great player but no means wth out flaws.
     
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  41. Initial_d

    Initial_d New User

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    Aren't they all??
     
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  42. Cenc

    Cenc Hall of Fame

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    imo yes...
     
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  43. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Sampras does not have a poor record vs any of his main rivals. Krajicek and Stich are NOT "main" rivals, and his record vs them is nothing near as bad as Federer vs Nadal. Federer's poor record vs Nadal is a big mark against him in potential GOAT discussions, you are kidding himself if you think otherwise.

    Federer did better than Sampras at the French of course. You see the thing is he still didnt win the French. That is the only thing that would really matter, if either of them had been good enough on clay to win the French even once. Since neither won the French even once it really doesnt matter or mean anything really, despite that Federer did better at the French. Lendl did better at Wimbledon than Sampras at the French, Borg better at the U.S Open than Sampras at the French, but you dont hear anyone talk about that much do you. All that matters for each of these great players it they failed to win 1 of the biggest events in the world. Ultimately it is a mark equally against each, it doesnt matter which came closest when you are talking about players of that caliber.

    Close but no cigar. Tough luck.

    I already said I like Federer more than Sampras. However Federer at this point cannot be ranked over Sampras by any objectionable measure.

    Once he wins another slam? Are you so sure it is a sure thing anymore.
     
    #43
  44. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Sure. Every player except the TW forum members have some flaws in their games.

    The question is most Sampras fans over look their players obvious flaws but more than happy to point out Other player's. I am just trying to be objective (though my bias towards Federer is obvious) and indicate that Sampras argument for GOAT is lil hollow.
     
    #44
  45. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    How is Federer's GOAT argument not hollow? What are his biggest records?

    Not most weeks at #1. Not most years at #1. Not most slam titles. Not most Wimbledons. Not most U.S Opens (tied for Open era but not ahead). Not most Australian Opens (even Open era). Not the Calender Slam or even Career Slam. Not the best W-L of any given year (he had a chance to tie McEnroe's Open Era mark and failed). Not the most tournaments won in any year. Not even close to the most tournaments won for a career. Not the most Masters titles. Not the longest match win streak.

    Poor record vs his biggest rival, and increasingly poor records vs a couple of other main rivals. Questionable longevity, especialy if he doesnt turn things around. This is a strong argument for the GOAT?
     
    #45
  46. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    You may be right (or not as i can challenge u r assertions). Most important thing is If Fed's case is Hollow then Sampras is Hallower.

    I really dont care who the real GOAT is. It can never be objectively determined (may be subjectively there is a possibility). All i care about is Fed better than Sampras. The answer is most cases is resounding yes. Sampras is not even in contention when it comes to CLAY. Federer is an accomplished Clay player. Fed won GS much quicker than Sampras did.
     
    #46
  47. lawrence

    lawrence Hall of Fame

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    how can you be a goat if your clay game is terribad
     
    #47
  48. colonelforbin

    colonelforbin Rookie

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    But he does have the most consecutive weeks at #1, and unquestionably the most dominant four years of any player. And it is likely he will break the slam record. He may not be doing so well right now, but realistically his slump hasn't been going on for so long. He won the US Open less than a year ago. If you look back at Agassi's slump in 97/98, he was doing much much worse (falling into the 100s). And he still managed to right the ship. Federer's still at #2 and 27 years-old. It is highly probable he will win a few more slams, despite his current performance. He's too talented not to sneak a few more in there. And if he doesn't, well, we'll have to wait until the end of his career to find out and only then can we honestly assess his GOAT candidacy.
     
    #48
  49. 380pistol

    380pistol Banned

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    Can't do it like that B. Laver won 6 of 11 slams between 1960 and 1962 when Rosewall and Hoad couldn't compete. If we're compensating Laver for the slams he missed, Hoad and Rosewall need to be compensated the same. Laver keeps his 5 from the open era, and then one must figure out how many gets based on abilites other pros still being able to compete in slams.

    Also you'd have to players like Borg, Sampras and Federer and try an estimate how they would have done back in those times, and transplant Laver forward and estimate what (and others) would do in this modern climate.
     
    #49
  50. 380pistol

    380pistol Banned

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    I know I can take Sampras in fair one over anyone to play the game and have him as the favourite.
     
    #50

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