Is Sanchez Vicario overrated or underrated- how does she rank vs others similar slams

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by NadalAgassi, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I have heard a variety of opinions on Sanchez Vicario. From one extreme to the other.

    Her biggest critics- She never should have won anywhere near 4 slams. She was super lucky with the Seles stabbing or she would have only 2 or 3 slams total (or maybe even only 1). She could never beat Graf or Seles on a good day. She was nowhere near as talented as Sabatini, and Sabatini at her peak was the better player despite having only 1 slam. She was nowhere near the players that Davenport or Mandilikova who won similar or fewer slams were. She was just a moonballer, she had no weapons, just a defensive player, she would get killed today or in a tougher era.

    Her biggest supporters- She would have won many more slams if she didnt have to play the GOAT (Graf) in so many slam semis and finals. She is underrated, people value talent too much and dont value determination, work ethic, and a dogged heart. She made 12 slam finals in a very competitive era with Graf, Seles, Navratilova, Hingis, and others all near the top.

    In the end is she overrated, or underrated or neither. Was she lucky to achieve what she did, or unlucky to not achieve even more. How does she rank vs others with 3 or 4 slams like Mandlikova, Davenport, Clijsters, Sharapova (Maria probably shouldnt be included as she probably win around 6), Wade, Capriati, etc..
     
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  2. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I think she's rated appropriately. I know that's a boring answer, but it's what I think.

    I always ask this in "overrated" and "underrated" threads -- what is your starting point? What is the rating or perceived rating that you think is over or under? If you can't offer a ratings starting point, then "overrated" or "underrated" doesn't really mean anything.

    I never hear ASV talked about as a first tier, or even second tier great (though she is considered a "great" player"). Any rankings I've seen of "greatest" or "best" players of all time don't have her too high or low, IMO. The comments I hear from commentators about her are pretty much the usual about her tenacity, her consistency, her fight. I think people are well aware that she won two of her 4 Slams while Seles was out, and I don't think that really changes people's perceptions. She's a multiple Slam champion, who, while great, is universally acknowledged as being a level below the best players of her generation. That would be true whether she had 2 or 4 Slams. And, regardless of Seles absence, those two 1994 Slams are still great achievements. It's not like Seles was her only barrier to winning Slams and in her absence she waltzed to those Slam wins. Particularly the 1994 USO she beat Graf in a come-from-behind victory and she rarely beat Graf at slams.

    Beyond her Slams wins she has a ton of good to great Slam results, doubles Slams, Fed Cup wins, legit victories over many great players.

    For all of this, she is remembered as a great player, but nearly everyone who knows tennis acknowledges that she's not the best of her generation or close to the best of all time. I've never really seen her talked about or "rated" any differently.

    So, for that reason, I think she's rated appropriately.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  3. PhilStar!

    PhilStar! Rookie

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    Vicario was a spunky, feisty little player.

    She's basically the female version of Michael Chang. Fast but not powerful. I think she did reasonably well against Sabatini but regardless, all the Spaniards had difficulty against Graf and Seles.
     
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  4. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    I think Sara Errani currently plays the Snachez-Vicario-style perfectly.
     
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  5. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    kinda like hingis
     
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  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    what she won, like anybody else, is well deserved so her 4 titles place him in a high echelon and she deserved it.

    Now, she can´t even start to compare to the talent of Mandlikova and maybe not even with Davenport,Clijsters or Wade.But she won because of her fast and ultraresistant legs, a very deceptive and effective 2 HBH and, of coruse, her great will to win and fighting spirit.I always thought she was very very similar to LLeyton Hewitt.And she knew the game very well, otherwise she wouldn´t have won those major doubles titles.
     
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  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In a way yes.Both used their heads very well and were very smart tacticians.But Hingis was far more talented and intimidating.Hingis is one of the most talented ever players, and Sanchez was a great competitor, but not that much talented IMO.
     
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  8. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    No one who won RG 3 times and got to all those finals in that era, is anything less than a great clay courter. It was a fabulously deep era for clay court tennis. You just cannot come up with enough excuses to diminish those clay titles and runner up finishes in Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Berlin, Rome, Amelia Island, Hilton Head.

    She is also an accomplished doubles player with too many wins w/ too many different partners to ignore.

    I suppose you can claim she is overrated on other surfaces despite a solid resume on the rest.
     
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  9. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    There's talent and then there's accomplishments; I think Arantxa accomplished a lot in a tough era. And, was close to winning a few more of those finals. She had a lot of spunk and drive, if not huge weapons. And, I think she was better than Sabatini, on most days.

    On the other side, who was more talented than the mercurial Mandlikova?


    But, wins are wins, no matter how they are earned.
     
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  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Good post and agree with ASV being underrated while she was a top player in the probably toughest era for women which started when Evert retired and finished when Hingis did so
    Of course nobody was more talented than Hana
    On mere row talent, and I accept there can be different ways to understand the concept of talent, my men top five is Hoad,Laver,Nastase,Mc Enroe and ex aqueo Sampras,Rosewall,Federer
    As for women I would pick Hana,Hingis,Goolagong,Bueno and a tie between Lenglen,Connolly and Navratilova
    Graf and Jaeger not far away
     
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  11. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Perhaps your last sentence is the point: when a player's singles career is rated, his or her ability at one major is rarely is the only criteria for a last word. ASV, whether Seles was in the mix or not, was not going to be a great force at the majors enough to be a threat to chip away at Graf's dominance.

    One could argue she has a better record than Seles at Wimbledon with two finals appearances, but that's not saying much, as both were not of the skill set to ever win that title. Of her generation, she's not on the lower rung of the achievement level like Novotna, Mary Jo Fernandez, Sabatini, Huber or Coetzer, but she's nowhere near the top. She kind of floats in between.
     
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  12. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    When I think of how much ASV got out of her game and how little Gaby got out of hers, I still shake my head. Gaby had so much more game and fewer tangible weaknesses. But the intangible strengths of ASV in the form of her mental determination and fighting spirit are very much to her credit.

    With that said, I'm still shocked that she ever won a slam. None of her championship runs were a thing of beauty and, in my mind, none were testaments of greatness. She's very fortunate that she didn't have to face many serve and volley players that would've forced her to become more aggressive and expose that loopy forehand.

    She could outlast players on clay by being a human backboard. She used her speed to keep spitting balls to an error prone Graf on her worst surface. On other surfaces, she played few players other than Sukova and Novotna that could force her to adapt her game to a faster surface. So while she did well on clay in a tough clay era, it wasn't exactly an era filled with especially strong grass, hard, or indoor players.

    I've always shook my head at those that thought Graf was the beneficiary of an absent Seles. Steffi was always going to win her fair share of slams. It was ASV that really cashed in. Pre -stabbing Seles ate her loopy midcourt shots for lunch and was not as error prone as Graf.
     
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  13. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    I know my post is a bit harsh on ASV. I picked on some circumstances involving her era that were beyond her control. I will be the first to say that there are many players that you can do the same with.

    Some players get caught spending their entire careers in the shadow of 2 or more all time greats simultaneously and some don't. All you can do is show up and play.
     
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  14. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Well, Graf did benefit from not even having the possiblity of facing a player who could (not necessarily would) beat her. But, you make a great point. While I believe Seles certainly would have won at least a Slam or two during the rest of 1993, 1994, and pre-USO 1995 when she was absent, and most likely would have beaten Graf sometime in the process, it is entirely feasible that Graf beats Seles in every Slam encounter during that period. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's entirely possible. Basically, Graf could win all of the Slams she won during that period anyway, because she could legitimately beat Seles. Who knows, maybe she goes on a little run against her in the rivalry. Again, I don't think it's likely Graf wins every Slam encounter, but it's not out of the question.

    So, as you said, the real beneficiaries of Seles' absence is everyone BUT Graf, those players who really didn't have a chance to beat Seles and who did better as a result.
     
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  15. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Shriver,Novotna,Navratilova were some S&V players ASV played during her career...
     
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  16. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    By the time ASV rose to the top s&v tennis was all but dead. Sukova, Novotna, McNeil, Neiland ..... there weren't many left that could make an impact in singles. Though we call Novotna a s&v player she rarely actually followed her serve to the net post 1993. She was much more apt to spin a 3/4 pace serve in and then work her way in. Jana spent a lot of time on the baseline in their matches.
     
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  17. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    She was better than Sabatini most days?? Peak Sabatini>>>>Peak Sanchez.
    At her peak Gaby had to face peak Graf and then peak Seles.
     
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  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ASV record is better than the argentinian
    sabatini is an extremely overrated player

    her looks are also soooo overrated

    sanchez owned her when mattered
     
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  19. scootad.

    scootad. Semi-Pro

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    I'm of the opinion that Sabatini underachieved and Sanchez Vicario overachieved.

    Sabatini's prime was from circa 1987-1992.
    Sanchez Vicario's prime was from circa 1993-1996.

    Imagine a scenario where Steffi Graf is stabbed in early 1989. It's easy to envision Sabatini winning 3 more slams and equaling Sanchez Vicario's 4 career slam wins. After all ASV's slam total was assisted in a major way by Seles stabbing.
     
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  20. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    I could imagine it, except no matter who Gabby plays in that final or latter stages of the semi, she has to get over that mental block. Amazing how superb she could be in the quarters or early going of her semis of a major, just to blow it in those final games. She just could not clinch the deal. My gut says she would find a way to self destruct playing my Grandmother in the final at wimbledon or RG.

    Its interesting to me that so many folks measure over/ under acheivement in terms of ratio of raw physical ability to majors won. Rather than measuring the ratio in the larger terms of physical, mental and emotional ability to majors won.


    Sanchez honed tons of talents and abilities Gabby did not and could not. She's just not getting credit for them because they do not directly involve the way she struck the ball. Sanchez made herself believe. She worked, trained, and struggled and kept right on believing until the very last ball of the match had bounced twice. Its an emotional talent that ensures reward for delayed gratification. You could call it a champion's heart, but there are trained thought patterns behind it along with the discipline to reframe your mental dialogue when times get tough. It needs to be part of the ratio when you measure achievement. If you include all that stuff, she didn't overachieve at all. its a wonder some women stopped that train at all.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I fully agree
    Sanchez would beat Sabatini 7-8 out of 10 in slam finals
    No possible comparation between a one timer and a four timer who also reached m 1 position
    They are just at different leagues
    Sabatini at most compares to Martinez but Conchita was more talented
     
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  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    For those who weren't there in early 90:
    Top tier: Graf and Seles
    Second tier:Sanchez and Navratilova - past prime-
    Third tier: Sabatini,Martinez,Pierce andNovotna
    Fernamdez and Garrison complete the top ten even if they were good journeywomen at most
    Capriati and Davenport were still far from prime and Hingis was a junior
     
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  23. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    There are MANY numbers that support that Gaby's peak was unfortunate while Vicario's was just in time. If Vicario is so much superior then why their h2h is on Gaby favor?? Why ASV has 29 titles while Gaby's has 27 with a shorter career and a 2 year slump?? Why Gaby has better H2H's with other top players??
     
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  24. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    Biased much?? Now it is obvious that you dislike her.
     
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  25. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    While some of this `could` be true there are a couple problems with the theory too.

    1. Despite being generally competitive with her on the regular tour, Graf owned Sabatini where it really mattered- the slams. Yes Graf is the only one out of Navratilova, Seles, or Evert who she managed to beat in a slam, but that is only since she got 12 chances to do it, way more than any of those others. With a 1-11 record vs Graf in slams how can you presume it is feasible for her to have won 3 more slams even had Seles been stabbed. For all we know she might have won 0 more had Seles been stabbed given her complete inability to beat Graf (who would have remained the dominant player without break in some hypothetical World 15 year old rather than 19 year old Seles is stabbed, or Seles didnt exist, whichever). The only slam she beat Graf was the only slam she won, before the Seles dominance even began. It seems any future slams she hypothetically wins even had Seles been gone during her own peak years would require avoiding Graf as 1-11 says enough, and if we are super generous and give her 1 more big slam upset of Graf and 1 other time she goes through a draw where Graf is upset, that would still only be 2 more slams and 3 slams total.

    By contrast Sanchez did beat Graf 4 times in slams, and even beat Graf more times in slams (2 times) than Sabatini could (1 time) in Sabatini`s prime years and not Sanchez`s prime years. Thus giving her more ability to win majors, the probably quite lucky benefit she also got from the Seles stabbing aside.


    2. Sabatini was still playing pro tennis and quite young (22-26) in the years Sanchez was supposably vulturing and winning slams and doing many other great things in the game in Seles`s absence and the general temporary decline in the womens game from 93-96. What was to keep her from taking advantage of that. She had all the same opportunities as Sanchez, there isnt really a good excuse for a player of that age to already be past her prime (she was but that is her own fault as there is no explicable reason for it), but unlike Sanchez she couldnt capatilize on it.


    3. Sabatinis 3-15 slam semi record is absolutely pathetic no matter how you slice it. It is really telling Sanchez reached the same number of slam finals and won the same number of slams during Sabatinis prime years and non Sanchez prime years (1987-1992) as Sabatini could.



    You are right on one thing for sure though. Sanchez way overachieved and Sabatini way underachieved. I do agree there was some luck in that and Sanchez was very lucky with her timing peaking just after the Seles stabbing, but some of that was definitely their own doing too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2013
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  26. scootad.

    scootad. Semi-Pro

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    You misread my post NadalAgassi. I said imagine a scenario where Graf is stabbed in early 1989 and how many slams Sabatini ends up with.
     
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  27. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    In my mind, Gaby had much more game than ASV. When I first saw her I thought she was a "can't miss." Compared to Sanchez, Gaby was unfortunate. But she had over 30 meetings in slams with Graf, Martina, Chris, and Seles yet she could only manage 1 win. That both speaks to her consistency and the reality that she's not as great as many remember her as being. Lesser players like Sukova, Shriver, Turnbull, Jaeger, etc. had more wins in slams against the same calibur players that I compared Gaby to.

    Still, Gaby's mental and physical demise aided ASV's rise. As great as Sanchez's mental powers were (and to be clear I would never put her in the same zip code as Evert or Seles here), she perhaps had the greatest timing of anyone in tennis history. That more than anything explains why she ever got above #3 and became more than a 1 slam wonder. Which, by the way, is nothing to sneeze at. I just don't look at ASV as being in the same category as Hingis or Goolagong, nor even Wade or Mandlikova.
     
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  28. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Oh sorry, my bad. Even so I wouldnt say there is a safe call for Sabatini. Sabatini has never beaten Navratilova (even old one) or Seles in a slam. So she again has to avoid both, and who knows how many times to do that, and dont forget Mary Joe Fernandez who even owns Sabatini in slams, LOL!

    The key for Sanchez is she atleast did reasonably well vs 1 of the big 2 of that era (Graf), so that gave her an immediate edge vs Sabatini who in slams was hopeless vs both Graf and Seles. She still was lucky with the Seles stabbing I agree.
     
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  29. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Probably did but a much weaker mind and work ethic it turned out, which is a large part of why she achieved less, not just luck.
     
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  30. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    You're right. Its not just about forehands and backhands.
     
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  31. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    She won what she deserved to and missed what she did not deserve winning
    Sorry but same rule applies to anybody in opem era ( not pro era)
     
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  32. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It is BS because argentinian was very fortunate playing vs old Evert, old Navy, pre peak Graf and pre retired Mandy
    In fact rather than unfortunate Gabriela was one of the luckiest ever players
    I never said ASV was nearly half talented as Hana,Martina and Evonne
    Never
    Don' t know vs Ginny Wade
    You just hate her
     
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  33. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Conchita Martinez has more tournament titles than ASV and Sabatini so by your logic she is a better player than both. H2H has most value than Fernandez is better than Sabatini as Sabatini narrowly has a winning overall H2H but Fernandez the winning slam H2H.

    4 slams + 29 tournaments >>>>> 1 slam + 27 tournaments. It isnt a close call at all. Did you notice me already note that Sanchez even in her non prime years reached as many slam finals, won as many slams, and beat Graf more times in slams than peak Sabatini could (89-92). How do you explain that if Sabatini was as good or better a player. The fact Sanchez did as well in slams when Sabatini was way more peak than her, just shows overall she was always going to do better. Overall tournament win count is meaingless since Sabatini, Novotna, Martinez, and Sanchez are all very close there (Sabatini in fact last even there though btw), but only one has 1 more slam, and all played in their young to mid 20s while Seles was off tour from the stabbing as well.

    Sabatini was a huge underachiever, and much of that was her own fault, not just bad luck. Just accept it. She did not make the most of her talents, while Sanchez overused hers, which is a credit to her, while also yes using some luck, but Sabatini could hardly use any of her chances she did have. Sanchez probably shouldnt have been the better player but in the end she ended up being and clearly was the better player of the two.
     
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  34. nat75

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    Which are the remarkable rivals ASV had to face around 1993/94/95?
     
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  35. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Steffi Graf, you know the one Sabatini is 1-11 vs in majors, but Sanchez is 4-9 against (and lost in 2 of the all time best matches in 2 of the finals she lost). Interesting how their # of wins over Graf in majors matches their # of slam titles (even if Sanchez's 4 werent all the same as the 4 she beat Graf at). Is that a coincidence? Probably not.

    The 93-95 field couldnt have been that bad. After all 23-24 year old Sabatini was unable to even stay in the top 5 amongst it. Sorry she wasnt stabbed, so you cant copy Selestials tired tactic and use that excuse for any of her failures after 21 either.
     
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  36. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    So by your logic Maria Sharapova is better than Hana Manlikova?? Because Maria has a chance to get 6 or more slams with the pathetic competition she has today. Serena could take a chance an pass Steffi's record but she doesn't seem to have the will. Number of titles or number of slams alone doesn't say anything perse. You have to consider all the stats and the periods the players are playing in and 1993/94/95 was a transitional period nowhere near 1988/92
    BTW, it is pretty obvious that Gaby wasn't near her peak after RG 1993 so the "they all had the same chance post Monica stabbing" is incorrect to say at least.
     
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  37. nat75

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    She wasn't the same player after RG 1993 and everybody who has followed tennis then know it.
     
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  38. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Yes I would say she is, and I hate Sharapova. However she is many times more consistent than Hana, and as much less pleasing as her game is to watch her huge firepower is equally as devastating at her best as Hanas shotmaking barrage at hers, and Maria is about 10 times better winning when not at her best than Hana ever was. Look at all the nobodies Hana lost to in slams even in her prime years, and you would never see anywhere near that many for Maria, and both have big wins in slams. You seem to think only talent, level of competition, and luck determines how good a player you are. This is so far from reality it isnt even funny, there are many more factors in play than that. Hana, like Gaby, is an underachiever, and there are a slew of less talented players who in the end were better than her (although Hana is still a much better player than Gaby, although I suspect you will dispute that too).

    Well boo hoo, whose fault was that. I am not disputing Gaby was not at her best in those years, but that is just part of what makes her weaker. There is no excuse for a 23 year old women with hardly any injuries, and who wasnt stabbed or having any major personal trauma in her life to just be past her prime, so the point she couldnt do squat to capatilize on according to you a so called pitiful field just makes her weaker.

    Lastly what period did Sabatini have so much tougher competition anyway. 91-92 Seles was there, but Graf was in a major slump. 88-89 Graf was there, but Martina was old, and Seles was in diapers. If Sabatini couldnt even beat 91-92 Graf in majors when she was at her all time best, and Graf probably her all time worst, it was never going to happen in 93-96 either even if she mantained her form. It was always the same the whole 87-96 period, one unbeatable force on top, and the rest very beatable, no difference. It is not like either Sabatini or Sanchez ever faced a field like 99-2005 where you had a slew of multi slam winners at or near their peak levels of tennis for years together.



    I wil ask you flat out now, are you honestly saying Sabatini is a "better" (not more talented, more potential, should have, could have, would have, etc...but is and was) player than Sanchez. Seriously.
     
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  39. nat75

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    If playing aging Martina and aging Evert plus peak Steffi and Monica is being the luckiest ever I don't want to know who was the least lucky. :-?
     
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  40. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Sabatini never played peak Graf and peak Seles at once. Peak Seles was 91-early 93. Peak Graf was 88-89 and 93-96.
     
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  41. nat75

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    Conchita more talented than Gaby? Do you know Conchita decided to play with. 1hbh because of Gabriela? What is next? Conchita had a better backhand?
     
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  42. nat75

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    Injury prone/father in jail Graf was at a peak in 93/94/95/96? New too me.
     
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  43. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    She was certainly better than she was in 91-92 where she reached the finals of only 3 of the 10 biggest tournaments. This also should be noted had absolutely nothing to do with either Seles (who she could never play before the finals), or Sabatini (who she never lost to in any of those tournaments). It was inability to beat the people who made the finals of those events- a pre prime fast court specialist Jana Novotna on a slow bouncy hard court, a 6-0 6-2 loss to the so called talentless Sanchez not even in her prime at the French, a straight sets loss to a pre prime Sanchez on fast hard courts, her first loss to 35 year old Navratilova in over 4 years at the U.S Open, and so on. Yes this was real peak Graf wasnt it, LOL! Only to a Sabatini or Selestard.

    Graf's father was only in jail starting in late 1995 btw, and 1996 ended up probably being Graf's best year of tennis since 1989, while 1995 was a year she lost only 2 matches, while she didnt do as well in 1993 and 1994 (though still better than 91 and 92, even taking Seles out of the picture) while her father was out and about and well.

    It is hilarious to always hear Seles and Sabatini fans try to insist Graf's best ever tennis was in 1991-1992 where from every perspective her worst results came, and her most inconsistent and often ugly tennis came as well. Yet she was supposably better than in the late 80s and mid 90s when she was often losing only 2 matches a year, it just amazingly happened to be the golden years when Seles and Sabatini played their best tennis, and when they werent everyone else amazingly got much worse too. Apparently every other player on the planet was playing so much better those two years. Not just Seles and Sabatini, but apparently Sanchez, an even older Navratilova, Novotna, McNeil, who all amazingly had their most ever success from 87-96 against Graf those two years. Of course Seles and Sabatinitards would go along with that too as it supports their fantasy of Seles being the uncrowned GOAT even with only 9 slams, no Wimbledons, no slams past 22, and lopsided losing records to 5 of her main rivals (Graf, Venus, Serena, Davenport, Hingis); and Sabatini fans fantasy of her being a 7-8 slam caliber player who was just robbed of being in the era of supposably always peak Seles, always peak Graf, always peak Navratilova (even at 30, 32, 35, 37, onwards), always peak Evert (even older) and so on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2013
    #43
  44. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Well you would probably claim Gaby had a better forehand than Conchita which would be equally as funny.
     
    #44
  45. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    Equally what?? Conchita is not remembered for her forehand.
     
    #45
  46. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Lol, I love your passion. I like that you don't blithely respond with quips or insults, but carpetbomb the person you are responding to with lots of numbers and well-constructed arguments.
     
    #46
  47. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    So somebody isn't a very serious contender simply because she's aging?? Aging Serena x example? Peak Azarenka is better than aging Evert?? You and Kiki need to get off the drugs.
    Did Graf ever withdrawn as much as she did in 1994/1995?? Has she ever withdrawn in 1991/92?? What was the reason she under perform in 1991/92?
     
    #47
  48. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    Except his/her arguments contradict themselves from one thread to another?
    Do you want me to break down his/her arguments with his/her own posts??
     
    #48
  49. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    I also wonder how 1994/95 steffi graf, ghosted by back injuries, can be better than Steffi 1991/92? The 1994 Us final agaisnt ASV she recibed on court treatment and lost the last two sets.
     
    #49
  50. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    Messages:
    923
    She wasn't one of my faves and she did have some annoying habits that I didn't like, but I don't hate ASV. Kind of like Hana, whom we both love, she was bubbly and adorable when she first came on tour. But the insolated life of the pro tour seemed to harden her and bring out the worst in her as it did with Hana.

    I respect her for getting so much out of what I feel is a bit of a limited game that wasn't to my liking. But I don't respect her accomplishments as much as I do others with similar slam counts who I think had to do more to win their slams.

    We can always agree to disagree.
     
    #50

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